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Thread: ATI card help

  1. #1
    jts
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    Default ATI card help

    Hey guys... I feel like I have a pretty good machine, and should be able to handle rift pretty well. However, I'm only able to get about 20 fps at MIN settings. I find this ridiculous as I can run all my other games at max settings fine.

    My dxdiag is below. If anyone can find anything wrong and give me advice I would be extremely grateful.


    ------------------
    System Information
    ------------------
    Time of this report: 5/15/2011, 17:03:49
    Machine name: DESKTOP
    Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_gdr.110408-1633)
    Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
    System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
    System Model: System Product Name
    BIOS: BIOS Date: 04/14/10 17:53:51 Ver: 09.06
    Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 630 Processor (4 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
    Memory: 4096MB RAM
    Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM
    Page File: 1965MB used, 6222MB available
    Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
    DX Setup Parameters: Not found
    User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
    System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
    DxDiag Version: 6.01.7600.16385 32bit Unicode

    ------------
    DxDiag Notes
    ------------
    Display Tab 1: No problems found.
    Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
    Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
    Sound Tab 3: No problems found.
    Input Tab: No problems found.

    --------------------
    DirectX Debug Levels
    --------------------
    Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
    DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
    DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
    DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
    DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
    DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
    DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

    ---------------
    Display Devices
    ---------------
    Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series
    Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x68DA)
    DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
    Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68DA&SUBSYS_30801682&REV_00
    Display Memory: 2806 MB
    Dedicated Memory: 1014 MB
    Shared Memory: 1791 MB
    Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)
    Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
    Monitor Model: SyncMaster
    Monitor Id: SAM027D
    Native Mode: 1680 x 1050(p) (59.883Hz)
    Output Type: DVI
    Driver Name: aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx32,at icfx32,aticfx32,atiumd64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atidxx64 .dll,atiumdag,atidxx32,atidxx32,atiumdva,atiumd6a. cap,atitmm64.dll
    Driver File Version: 8.17.0010.1072 (English)
    Driver Version: 8.841.0.0
    DDI Version: 10.1
    Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
    Driver Attributes: Final Retail
    Driver Date/Size: 4/5/2011 22:02:00, 788480 bytes
    WHQL Logo'd: Yes
    WHQL Date Stamp:
    Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-2B9A-11CF-0271-8A10BEC2C535}
    Vendor ID: 0x1002
    Device ID: 0x68DA
    SubSys ID: 0x30801682
    Revision ID: 0x0000
    Driver Strong Name: oem14.inf:ATI.Mfg.NTamd64.6.1:ati2mtag_Evergreen:8 .841.0.0ci\ven_1002&dev_68da
    Rank Of Driver: 00E62001
    Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C
    Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
    {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
    {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
    {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
    {552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
    {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
    {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC1,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC2,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC3,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC4,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(S340,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(S342,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
    D3D9 Overlay: Not Supported
    DXVA-HD: Not Supported
    DDraw Status: Enabled
    D3D Status: Enabled
    AGP Status: Enabled

    -------------

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    Last edited by Maverick494; 05-15-2011 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #3
    jts
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    ^tried those... sitting at 16fps on low

  4. #4
    jts
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    bump? ....

  5. #5
    General of Telara
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    Buy a new graphics card, a GTS 450 ought to be cheap enough if you're on a budget and is capable of 24 FPS at Ultra settings in some areas that are really hard on systems, and overclock your motherboard.

    Athlon II CPUs are not the best for gaming, but yours should be okay. Overclocking carries a risk with it, but if you're using a Phenom II CPU, and I'm presuming an Athlon II as well, with this game then it's almost required. Look up some guides on how to do it and keep an eye out for articles specifically talking about overclocking your Front-Side Bus. With Phenom II (and presumably Athlon IIs again) CPUs a good FSB overclock actually yields better results than a straight Core Multiplier overclock. Granted an FSB OC will also boost the speed of your CPU, but it's also boosting the speed of just about everything else.

    If you don't feel like overclocking then you'll probably want to upgrade your CPU. A solid choice would be a Phenom II x4 965 (IIRC, not familiar with the models) or something in that speed range with a black (not purple) box signifying "Black Edition."

    If money's no object then dropping $400-500 to switch to a "Sandy Dale" CPU would be a much better choice at this point in time, but budget-wise getting a new graphics card (GTS 450 in the low $100 range, GTX 460 768mb (not SE) in the $150 range, GTX 460 1gb in the $200 range) followed by upgrading to a Phenom II CPU would be your best bets. If you can't afford either then look into overclocking and save up for the graphics card first.

    Now you might be thinking, "It runs everything else fine, why would I need to overlclock?" Well, the answer is we honestly don't know, but based on what we've seen the game engine has issues. It especially has issues with Phenom II CPUs. Rich Amery will talk about thread sizes and how this game works with threads in a style more suited to Intel chips than AMD chips. My opinion is that there's some sort of resource management issue in the code itself that's effectively making the game engine lazy on upper mid-range to high-end PCs or with certain pieces of hardware. I'm using a Phenom II x6 1090t processor with an HD6870 graphics card and there are places in the game where I'll actually drop to 60 FPS on Low settings. The Irony is that I can also pull 70-80 FPS in other areas on Ultra or Ultra-load (as in same load, different settings) settings.

    Short of trying a complete reinstall of your OS, your drivers, and the game those are the only options I can honestly suggest. Upgrade, overclock, suck it up.

  6. #6
    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marikhen View Post
    Buy a new graphics card, a GTS 450 ought to be cheap enough if you're on a budget and is capable of 24 FPS at Ultra settings in some areas that are really hard on systems, and overclock your motherboard.

    Athlon II CPUs are not the best for gaming, but yours should be okay. Overclocking carries a risk with it, but if you're using a Phenom II CPU, and I'm presuming an Athlon II as well, with this game then it's almost required. Look up some guides on how to do it and keep an eye out for articles specifically talking about overclocking your Front-Side Bus. With Phenom II (and presumably Athlon IIs again) CPUs a good FSB overclock actually yields better results than a straight Core Multiplier overclock. Granted an FSB OC will also boost the speed of your CPU, but it's also boosting the speed of just about everything else.

    If you don't feel like overclocking then you'll probably want to upgrade your CPU. A solid choice would be a Phenom II x4 965 (IIRC, not familiar with the models) or something in that speed range with a black (not purple) box signifying "Black Edition."

    If money's no object then dropping $400-500 to switch to a "Sandy Dale" CPU would be a much better choice at this point in time, but budget-wise getting a new graphics card (GTS 450 in the low $100 range, GTX 460 768mb (not SE) in the $150 range, GTX 460 1gb in the $200 range) followed by upgrading to a Phenom II CPU would be your best bets. If you can't afford either then look into overclocking and save up for the graphics card first.

    Now you might be thinking, "It runs everything else fine, why would I need to overlclock?" Well, the answer is we honestly don't know, but based on what we've seen the game engine has issues. It especially has issues with Phenom II CPUs. Rich Amery will talk about thread sizes and how this game works with threads in a style more suited to Intel chips than AMD chips. My opinion is that there's some sort of resource management issue in the code itself that's effectively making the game engine lazy on upper mid-range to high-end PCs or with certain pieces of hardware. I'm using a Phenom II x6 1090t processor with an HD6870 graphics card and there are places in the game where I'll actually drop to 60 FPS on Low settings. The Irony is that I can also pull 70-80 FPS in other areas on Ultra or Ultra-load (as in same load, different settings) settings.

    Short of trying a complete reinstall of your OS, your drivers, and the game those are the only options I can honestly suggest. Upgrade, overclock, suck it up.
    Good to "see" you again! And you have hit this right on the money. I think the OP should bhe able to take that Athlon II to about 3.4 with a $30 cooler and some $10 paste. It should bump him a bit, but lacking that L3 cache is going to cut his legs out from under him.

    The two cards you suggest are definitely the best for the cash right now. Real GTX 460s go for about $100 on sale at any given time on the net so that's my recommendation. So for about $150 he'll be okay.

    OP why exactly are you gaming on a SFF HTPC GPU? It's not maxing any AAA games that have come out in the last two years period.

  7. #7
    jts
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    thanks a lot guys, appreciate it. I'll look into overclocking it and see what it can do.

    and I don't know a ton about computers, I had no idea my parts aren't up to par... my friend built the computer and said it was a "gaming machine" about 4 months ago.

  8. #8
    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by jts View Post
    thanks a lot guys, appreciate it. I'll look into overclocking it and see what it can do.

    and I don't know a ton about computers, I had no idea my parts aren't up to par... my friend built the computer and said it was a "gaming machine" about 4 months ago.
    Gaming PC is such a loose term. I hate to tell you that. PCs aren't like consoles where everything just works for 5 years. It's a major hobby to really get into, but its worth the extra cash for the extra fun.

    I hope you enjoy your new adventure!

  9. #9
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Aemry View Post
    Good to "see" you again!
    I took a month vacation to burn some Warcraft out of my system while the melee audio sounded like crap. That seems to be fixed now, and Warcraft expired just as 1.2 launched, so I'm back.

    Quote Originally Posted by jts View Post
    thanks a lot guys, appreciate it. I'll look into overclocking it and see what it can do.

    and I don't know a ton about computers, I had no idea my parts aren't up to par... my friend built the computer and said it was a "gaming machine" about 4 months ago.
    Just be sure to read the information you get on OC'ing three times before attempting to try it. Then read it a fourth time. Print it out for good measure. Also, making sure you have your motherboard's manual (or a printout of it) would be very, very useful in case you have to flip jumpers as well as pop the CMOS battery to set your BIOS to default settings.

    As for "gaming machine," Rich really hit the nail on the head. I've seen so many "gaming machine" listings on Craigslist that used Athlon II CPUs that it's pathetic.

    Basically if a PC is to be considered a "gaming" machine it needs to meet most of the following criteria.

    Phenom II triple core or better CPU (or the Intel equivalent, I don't know enough about them to make suggestions except i5s and i7s and, probably, many of the later model quad-cores from the previous generation).

    Graphics cards. AMD/ATI in the x7xx or better range. 4700, 4800, 5700, 5800, 6800, 6900. The 47xx and 48xx are getting long in the tooth, however, but they still do well for many games. For nVidia it's the x50 and x60 for budget gamers and x70 and better for heavier gaming. The 9800 and 8800 are still going strong if you use the GTXs, but these days they really need to run in SLI to keep up with the newer boards.

    RAM: 4gb-6gb is minimum for a "gaming" machine, but I wouldn't recommend less than 8.

    Audio: This is almost irrelevant these days. Between steadily improving on-board audio and the fall of Creative Labs as one of the best audio solutions providers there are few true reasons any more for onboard audio to be a make or break point in determining whether or not your machine is a "gaming" PC. That many gaming headsets (like my PulseWave 2s) come with their own audio drivers that ignore onboard audio or sound cards just further muddles the issue.

    Please bear in mind that what I just said doesn't mean you cannot play games on weaker equipment, merely that that's about where hardware needs to be to meet the current generation (more or less) criteria for having a "gaming machine."

    A simpler method is to ask yourself, "Does my machine cost under $600?" If the answer is yes, for parts alone, then it probably won't qualify as a gaming machine to most gamers who are also PC builders. Mind you I picked $600 because my current machine, sans upgrades, cost about $630 to build. All parts, all new. Phenom II x3 720 CPU, HD4830 graphics card, 4gb DDR3, tri-SLI/CrossFire capable motherboard with onboard graphics in case the video card crapped out, 1tb HD, case, 650w Antec PSU. Capable of running most games two years ago at 60 FPS+ and would still do well now.

  10. #10
    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marikhen View Post
    I took a month vacation to burn some Warcraft out of my system while the melee audio sounded like crap. That seems to be fixed now, and Warcraft expired just as 1.2 launched, so I'm back.



    Just be sure to read the information you get on OC'ing three times before attempting to try it. Then read it a fourth time. Print it out for good measure. Also, making sure you have your motherboard's manual (or a printout of it) would be very, very useful in case you have to flip jumpers as well as pop the CMOS battery to set your BIOS to default settings.

    As for "gaming machine," Rich really hit the nail on the head. I've seen so many "gaming machine" listings on Craigslist that used Athlon II CPUs that it's pathetic.

    Basically if a PC is to be considered a "gaming" machine it needs to meet most of the following criteria.

    Phenom II triple core or better CPU (or the Intel equivalent, I don't know enough about them to make suggestions except i5s and i7s and, probably, many of the later model quad-cores from the previous generation).

    Graphics cards. AMD/ATI in the x7xx or better range. 4700, 4800, 5700, 5800, 6800, 6900. The 47xx and 48xx are getting long in the tooth, however, but they still do well for many games. For nVidia it's the x50 and x60 for budget gamers and x70 and better for heavier gaming. The 9800 and 8800 are still going strong if you use the GTXs, but these days they really need to run in SLI to keep up with the newer boards.

    RAM: 4gb-6gb is minimum for a "gaming" machine, but I wouldn't recommend less than 8.

    Audio: This is almost irrelevant these days. Between steadily improving on-board audio and the fall of Creative Labs as one of the best audio solutions providers there are few true reasons any more for onboard audio to be a make or break point in determining whether or not your machine is a "gaming" PC. That many gaming headsets (like my PulseWave 2s) come with their own audio drivers that ignore onboard audio or sound cards just further muddles the issue.

    Please bear in mind that what I just said doesn't mean you cannot play games on weaker equipment, merely that that's about where hardware needs to be to meet the current generation (more or less) criteria for having a "gaming machine."

    A simpler method is to ask yourself, "Does my machine cost under $600?" If the answer is yes, for parts alone, then it probably won't qualify as a gaming machine to most gamers who are also PC builders. Mind you I picked $600 because my current machine, sans upgrades, cost about $630 to build. All parts, all new. Phenom II x3 720 CPU, HD4830 graphics card, 4gb DDR3, tri-SLI/CrossFire capable motherboard with onboard graphics in case the video card crapped out, 1tb HD, case, 650w Antec PSU. Capable of running most games two years ago at 60 FPS+ and would still do well now.
    I agree with you in every way except that I'd put the number at $500USD, and include the requirement for the current DX revision after 3 generations. So 4xxx is okay until the 7xxx comes out. By then though a 5830 will be so damn cheap it even broke ramen-eating college kids will own one.
    Last edited by Rich Aemry; 05-15-2011 at 08:38 PM.

  11. #11
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Aemry View Post
    I agree with you in every way except that I'd put the number at $500USD, and include the requirement for the current DX revision after 3 generations. So 4xxx is okay until the 7xxx comes out. By then though a 5830 will be so damn cheap it even broke ramen-eating college kids will own one.
    You should probably say 5850. As I understand it the 5830 is actually a rather inferior product, especially when you take its capabilities in relation to the 5800 and 5850 and compare them to how the 4830 stacks up with the 4800 and 4850.

    When I went to upgrade from my old 4830 the 5830 seemed like a great choice based on my 4830's performance until I started really doing some research on it. Because of that research I quickly decided against it, started looking at the 5850, and then noticed that the 6870 was getting better performance at equal or better prices.

    As for the price... $100 for a solid motherboard, $125 for a decent CPU, $125 for a decent GPU, $50 for a case, $50 for a PSU, $80 for RAM, and you're pushing $530 without even getting a hard drive or DVD drive. Granted DVD drives are $20 or so and you can get a 1tb drive in the $50-60 range. You could shave off $30 or so from the RAM and get 4gb and slice ff another $10-20 with a sub-1tb drive, but I wouldn't want to go much cheaper than that and even that only gets you to about $550.

    Presuming my memory for pricing is still accurate.

  12. #12
    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marikhen View Post
    You should probably say 5850. As I understand it the 5830 is actually a rather inferior product, especially when you take its capabilities in relation to the 5800 and 5850 and compare them to how the 4830 stacks up with the 4800 and 4850.

    When I went to upgrade from my old 4830 the 5830 seemed like a great choice based on my 4830's performance until I started really doing some research on it. Because of that research I quickly decided against it, started looking at the 5850, and then noticed that the 6870 was getting better performance at equal or better prices.

    As for the price... $100 for a solid motherboard, $125 for a decent CPU, $125 for a decent GPU, $50 for a case, $50 for a PSU, $80 for RAM, and you're pushing $530 without even getting a hard drive or DVD drive. Granted DVD drives are $20 or so and you can get a 1tb drive in the $50-60 range. You could shave off $30 or so from the RAM and get 4gb and slice ff another $10-20 with a sub-1tb drive, but I wouldn't want to go much cheaper than that and even that only gets you to about $550.

    Presuming my memory for pricing is still accurate.
    People bought 5830s for feature sets. It's a nice part if you think of it that way, it's not a powerhouse, but it's dirt cheap and is great for the price.

    For the prices on a budget......$50-$75 for a good mATX MOBO, $100 for a phenom IIx4 on sale, $100 for a GTX 460 or 5830 on sale, $40 for a good little case-PSU combo, $40 for 4GB RAM, and $15 for a DVD drive $40 for a Samsung Spinpoint. I build that exact thing 8-10 times a month, and its pretty decent. Not awesome, but very decent.

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