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Thread: The AMD/Radeon and Rift Problem, with a side of the AA in game limitation

  1. #1
    General of Telara Kuldebar's Avatar
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    Thumbs down The AMD/Radeon and Rift Problem, with a side of the AA in game limitation

    So, I upgraded my Athlon II x4 640 to a Phenom II x4 965 BE.

    My system is 3 months old and has an MSI 880GM-E41, a single MSI Cyclone 6850 and 6 gigs DDR3 RAM. My OS is Windows 7 64 bit /w SP1. And, yes, I don't run a bunch of unnecessary crap on my system. My system is air cooled and well cooled, I monitor temps using HWMonitor, among other methods. Using the 11.4 Preview Drivers. I play at my native resolution of 1920x1080.

    My performance in Rift is on a plateau and I can't seem to rise above it. The CPU upgrade (which I expected) did nothing dramatic, so it was when I went from my much beloved 5770 to the 6850 (I did see a 5-8 FPS gain overall).

    My point? I do not believe I have a crap system, I believe it is most likely above average. Rift doesn't like AMD, it doesn't play well with AMD.

    It doesn't mean that AMD sucks and I need to run out and buy an Intel/nVidia system. What it means is that Trion needs to look closely at its game and find out why AMD systems are being used in a completely unoptimized fashion.

    This is not to say that Intel/nVidia systems have it all good, but I do think AMD/Radeon is getting the more dirty end of the stick.

    So, what have I done to mitigate the situation?

    I have tried a lot of things, but what I did filtered down to a few things that seemed to work best for my system:

    -I use RadeonPro:

    flipQueue Size to zero
    force VSYNC and Triple Buffering (d3d)


    -In game settings:
    (emphasis added to settings I feel most pertinent)
    [Client]
    DriverVersionHigh = 524302
    DriverVersionLow = 656158
    EULA = 29
    LogCombatConsole = False
    LostFocusMinFrameTime = 100
    MainThreadCPU = 0
    UseQueryPerformanceCounter = True

    [Movies]
    PlayedIntroMovie = True

    [Video]
    AnisotropicFiltering = 0
    AntialiasMode = 1
    AutoAdjustSettings = False
    DetailObjectsEnabled = True
    DirectionalShadowsEnabled = False
    EdgeAntialiasEnabled = True
    FullscreenFXEnabled = True
    Gamma = 1.000000
    GroundClutterDensity = 3
    GroundClutterRadius = 100

    LegacyRenderer = False
    LightingComplexity = 0.600000
    MaxLOD = 3
    MaxShaderLOD = 10
    MinShaderLOD = 2

    MipFilter = 2
    MultipassTerrainEnabled = True
    ObjectDetail = 100
    ObjectDrawDistance = 180
    OverrideGamma = False
    ProjectedTexturesEnabled = True
    QualityPreset = 5
    ResolutionX = 1920
    ResolutionY = 1080
    settingsInitialized = True
    ShadowMapResolution = 2
    ShadowMode = 2
    TerrainDetail = 6
    TerrainDrawDistance = 6
    TextureQuality = 3
    VFXLimit = 250
    VSyncEnabled = False
    WindowMode = 1
    I have overclocked my CPU, but the gains aren't worth the extra fan noise to be honest. My 965 BE easily OC's via the Bios to a highly stable 3.8 Ghz and DDR3 to 1500 from 1333.

    So, I get about 30-40+ overall FPS roaming about the world, tends to drop into the low 20's when a lot of stuff is happening.

    I can live with that, I just wish I could have AA in game without lowering my fps by 20 or so. Perhaps that is what bothers me most: the jaggies and flickering edges when I do not have SS enabled in the game.
    Last edited by Kuldebar; 04-11-2011 at 09:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran Xombies's Avatar
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    I feel your pain.

    A lot of people are going a long way out of their way to not say. "WTF Trion?"
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  3. #3
    Champion of Telara Forum Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuldebar View Post
    So, I upgraded my Athlon II x4 640 to a Phenom II x4 965 BE.

    My system is 3 months old and has an MSI 880GM-E41, a single MSI Cyclone 6850 and 6 gigs DDR3 RAM. My OS is Windows 7 64 bit /w SP1. And, yes, I don't run a bunch of unnecessary crap on my system. My system is air cooled and well cooled, I monitor temps using HWMonitor, among other methods. Using the 11.4 Preview Drivers. I play at my native resolution of 1920x1080.

    My performance in Rift is on a plateau and I can't seem to rise above it. The CPU upgrade (which I expected) did nothing dramatic, so it was when I went from my much beloved 5770 to the 6850 (I did see a 5-8 FPS gain overall).

    My point? I do not believe I have a crap system, I believe it is most likely above average. Rift doesn't like AMD, it doesn't play well with AMD.

    It doesn't mean that AMD sucks and I need to run out and buy an Intel/nVidia system. What it means is that Trion needs to look closely at its game and find out why AMD systems are being used in a completely unoptimized fashion.

    This is not to say that Intel/nVidia systems have it all good, but I do think AMD/Radeon is getting the more dirty end of the stick.
    So... You knew AMD/ATI was struggling with rift, so you went out and bought another AMD cpu / ATI card for rift, and now your complaining?

    Sorry, it's hard to have any sympathy for decisions like that.
    Last edited by Forum Troll; 04-11-2011 at 11:14 AM.
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  4. #4
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    I have serious issues with my ATI 5870 and rift... it just runs like garbage. Probably the weirdest solution I found (for my computer) is that when I reinstall the drivers, it works great, until the next reboot. So every time I power on my PC I have to reinstall my ATI drivers before playing rift.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Amarinth's Avatar
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    To be honest, the problem I see with Rift isn't that it runs ****ty on AMD processors specifically, it's that it runs ****ty on older CPU tech in general. The Core2Quad series from Intel seems to be performing just as subpar as the AMD CPU's from what I've seen.

    The only ones who seem to get somewhat decent results out of their CPU's in Rift seem to be the people running the newer CPU tech (core i7 and sandy bridge), which atm is Intel only, since AMD hasn't really released anything truly new in the last years.

    So the problem really is two-sided - AMD doesn't have anything atm to match the new Intel CPU's and Rift is very CPU hungry and simply doesn't run very optimized on older hardware, leading to the older AMD hardware being outclassed in this game.

    On the GFX card side though I agree with you that AMD cards have way more performance and stability issues than Nvidia and it's pretty obvious that it's not just down to bad drivers or poorer tech. This is unfortunately often the case in games. They get produced largely on rigs with one or the other type of GFX cards, and only tested briefly on the opposite hardware (if at all) and the resulting issues takes ages to sort out.

  6. #6
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    http://devforums.amd.com/game/messag...&enterthread=y

    "Renaming the riftpatchlive.exe to WoW.exe fixed my Crossfire issue. Looks like riftpatchlive.exe turns my crossfire off. Don't know why but it happens. Now i've much higher fps."

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Psicord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuldebar View Post
    So, I upgraded my Athlon II x4 640 to a Phenom II x4 965 BE.

    My performance in Rift is on a plateau and I can't seem to rise above it. The CPU upgrade (which I expected) did nothing dramatic, so it was when I went from my much beloved 5770 to the 6850 (I did see a 5-8 FPS gain overall).

    My point? I do not believe I have a crap system, I believe it is most likely above average. Rift doesn't like AMD, it doesn't play well with AMD.
    I had similar issues with my Asus Direct CU 5850. Lovely gfx. Did manage to tweak the settings to a level where the visuals were still good looking without killing my fps. Was running catalyst 11.2. There is no doubt this game favors Nvidia, as im sitting with a single gtx 560 ti right now in the machine and where i would be pulling 30-40 fps before im pulling the double now roughly. The game has some issues with rendering for sure. Why it hasnt been adressed yet or atleast a proper reason and a time frame given is beyond me. I just hope its on their list to do. And hopefully with that list is the HORRIBLE shadow rendering. never seen a game do it this bad which is a shame considering that RIFT is a pretty game overall.
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  8. #8
    General of Telara Kuldebar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psicord View Post
    I had similar issues with my Asus Direct CU 5850. Lovely gfx. Did manage to tweak the settings to a level where the visuals were still good looking without killing my fps. Was running catalyst 11.2. There is no doubt this game favors Nvidia, as im sitting with a single gtx 560 ti right now in the machine and where i would be pulling 30-40 fps before im pulling the double now roughly. The game has some issues with rendering for sure. Why it hasnt been adressed yet or atleast a proper reason and a time frame given is beyond me. I just hope its on their list to do. And hopefully with that list is the HORRIBLE shadow rendering. never seen a game do it this bad which is a shame considering that RIFT is a pretty game overall.
    Yes, I still have settings set at a level that impacts my FPS, but I am admittedly unwilling to run the game at lower settings that makes the game look like crud. Running with anti aliasing is bad enough and bugs the hell out of me.

    Lower resolution does nothing to improve frame rate. My CPU usage stays in the 40% range, which seems odd for such a CPU bound game.

  9. #9
    General of Telara Kuldebar's Avatar
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    As a reversal of my first post's tweaking, I am not trying a higher flip queue size setting via RadeonPro (The max is 5 via RadeonPro and I have set it at 5.).

    The idea is to force (as much as possible) more CPU involvement. 40 percent CPU usage seems a bit low for a game that seems to ask so much from hardware. Thus far, I have seen 52% usage rates...so I at least got that a bit higher.

    No noticeable gains in FPS but I have not left meridian yet. Also turned off Vsync and Triple Buffering since I have Flip Queue up.
    Last edited by Kuldebar; 04-12-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Telaran Xombies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuldebar View Post
    Yes, I still have settings set at a level that impacts my FPS, but I am admittedly unwilling to run the game at lower settings that makes the game look like crud. Running with anti aliasing is bad enough and bugs the hell out of me.

    Lower resolution does nothing to improve frame rate. My CPU usage stays in the 40% range, which seems odd for such a CPU bound game.
    I still find it hard to believe of all the designers, testers and QA folks working at or for Trion no one had an AMD/Crossfire setup issue. All the BETA testing done and all the feedback provided yet not one actual acknowledgment of this issue until this week.

    /puts on tinfoil hat

    If it isn't fixed in another month it's because of some strategic agreement between them and another hardware/software company. If people do not think developers and manufacturers do not collude or the washed down word "optimize" an application based on partnerships you don't know a lot about business. It's a tried n true method of business in PC applications, Operating Systems, hardware development and marketing strategery. (thnx G Dub)

    Right now the Admiral is probably finding out this "isn't", "can't" or "won't" be fixed anytime soon; so get ready to find out it's "a driver issue".
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  11. #11
    Plane Touched Uhtred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xombies View Post
    I still find it hard to believe of all the designers, testers and QA folks working at or for Trion no one had an AMD/Crossfire setup issue. All the BETA testing done and all the feedback provided yet not one actual acknowledgment of this issue until this week.

    /puts on tinfoil hat

    If it isn't fixed in another month it's because of some strategic agreement between them and another hardware/software company. If people do not think developers and manufacturers do not collude or the washed down word "optimize" an application based on partnerships you don't know a lot about business. It's a tried n true method of business in PC applications, Operating Systems, hardware development and marketing strategery. (thnx G Dub)

    Right now the Admiral is probably finding out this "isn't", "can't" or "won't" be fixed anytime soon; so get ready to find out it's "a driver issue".

    This would explain AMD being quick to put out Rift Caps?

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddler View Post
    I have serious issues with my ATI 5870 and rift... it just runs like garbage. Probably the weirdest solution I found (for my computer) is that when I reinstall the drivers, it works great, until the next reboot. So every time I power on my PC I have to reinstall my ATI drivers before playing rift.
    I truly doubt this works. sorry.

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