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Thread: [Work in Progress] Need communty input on RiftRatings a Player rating addon

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Default [Work in Progress] Need communty input on RiftReputation a Player reputation addon

    I'll explain how Rift Reputation works:

    Step 1) you encounter a player that is a jerk, maybe they ninja'd an item in a raid you were in with them or maybe they're an AWESOME team player. Either way you want other players to know what you think about this person.

    Step 2) you rate them UP, NEUTRAL, or DOWN, down being reserved for the worst offenders that you would not want to group with again, up is for is people that go out of there way to be good/nice/skilled players who you would definitely like to group with again. NEUTRAL is for everyone else.

    Step 3) Rift Reputation will silently broadcast your votes of players in the background to other people nearby (within /yell distance) who also have this addon. Your scores will get weighted by the person you are broadcasting to based on your voting history and your reputation that you have with the receiver.

    Step 4) At a later date you want to start a PUG group, before sending out invites you can look up a players reputation and make a judgment on if you want this person in your group or not!

    Overview:

    Current Features:
    - Voting other players UP, DOWN, or NEUTRAL (not yourself).
    - Broadcasting your votes to others around you (not all votes you have, just votes that you've made).
    - Drag-able UI elements that show your target's reputation.
    - Any votes that you receive or make will be weighted carefully, not all votes are equal (see notes below on weighting system).
    - You are only allowed to vote for players that you are targeting to prevent fake entries.
    - You are only allowed to vote for lvl 50 players, and only if you are level 50 to prevent people from making alts just for spam voting.
    - You are only allowed to vote for players on your shard, and of your same faction.
    - Reputations and votes will not be shared between alts and mains this is a limitation of the current API system. Alts will not broadcast the same votes as your main does.
    - You can search through any reputations you have with a simple UI interface or with a slash command.

    A few notes on the vote weighting system:

    1) When you vote for someone and then send that vote out to other people the receiver of your votes decides how much they think your vote is worth based on 2 factors; this is to prevent exploitation by manipulating the LUA code of my addon:
    - How many similar votes the sender has sent out in the past.
    - The receivers opinion of the sender (your reputation)
    2) The more UP votes you send out, the less your UP vote is worth, same with DOWN votes.
    3) NEUTRAL votes will always have a standard weight.
    4) UP and DOWN votes will have a "maximum" weight that they cannot go beyond to prevent one person from swinging the vote too much. The reason that up/down votes don't have a minimum is so that if people that send too many up/down votes, their up or down vote will be worth nothing. This is to prevent vote spam so if you want your up/down votes to have any power ONLY GIVE UP OR DOWN WHEN THEY DESERVE IT.
    5) Neither the voter or receiver gets to see how much the vote was worth .
    6) No one can see what their total scores are or the total votes from each category, you're only allowed to see a weighted average "trustworthiness" score and the total number of people who have voted for someone. This makes it easy to get a feel for someones reputation without giving away too much information on the exact numbers.

    Examples of scaling voting power:

    - 1 is the baseline weight for any vote, if your up/down voting weight is at 1 its going to be quite effective.
    - Neutral votes are always weighted at 1 so feel free to give this out freely.
    - The MOST weight any vote can have is 3 which means that 3 "average" voters can cancel out a max weight voter.
    - To reach a weight of 3 with an UP or DOWN you'll need 37 times as many votes of another type (EX: a 3x weighted DOWN vote would take 37 UP or NEUTRAL votes).
    - If, on average, you vote no more than 3 out of 20 people DOWN (a typical raid) your DOWN voting weight will stay around 1.
    - If, on average, you vote no more than 6 or 7 out of 20 people UP (a typical raid) your UP rating will stay around 1
    - Don't worry about sticking to the "recommended" numbers of UP or DOWN votes too much, if you exceed the "recommended" amount of votes one raid but didn't use all of them another it would average out so don't worry about it. Just know that if you ALWAYS vote UP or ALWAYS vote DOWN your UP/DOWN votes will be worth less than a typical user.
    - I balanced this so that a brand new alt made for trolling peoples reputation would have a lot of trouble getting there voting power increased but a normal player won't be punished or rewarded TOO much for deviating from normal amounts of up/down votes.
    - Your reputation factors into it also, the higher your reputation is (according to the person who is receiving your votes) the more power your vote has to them (it doesn't scale linearly though)

    Example:
    Someone who is brand new to the game probably doesn't have any ratings for you or anyone else and if you send your votes out to them then your votes worth won't be worth more than if you were new also. If, at a later time, that person meets other people and from those people's votes "realizes" that you have a higher reputation then your votes worth will increase (by your rating increasing) and all the votes you gave them when you first met them will be updated to weigh more in retrospect. (always capped at 3x)

    After all is said and done, I want this addon to represent a network of trust, so when you want to group with players you've never met before, you can trust that they aren't going to ninja and walk away with your items! I've done my best to try and ensure that players won't be able to muck up the votes too much but if anyone has any ideas to help make it a more fair and balanced system I'd love to hear them.

    As a final note i want everyone to keep in mind that exploitations of the system will always be possible with the current API limitations but I have done my best to make sure that its not worth it to exploit. Both by making it as hard as I possibly can and by limiting the influence any one voter can have on the reputation of another. Just to be safe though, take any reputations given by my addon with a grain of salt.



    Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames? GO!!
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 04-14-2012 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    1) I think you should include a friendly UI if you want the playerbase to use it.

    2, 3, 4) You could store two average ratings: the normal one and one that only counts votes from the player social network (that is, his guild and, once we have access to that info, his friends). That way if the player suspects the general rating has been poisoned due to a sybil attack, he can use the other rating.

    As of the voter identity, it shouldn't be anonymous. In any case I suppose you'll store the voter identity in saved vars to prevent double voting, so if any player wants to see the voter identity he would only need to open the saved variables file and search it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    This is not a Gearscore addon
    No indeed, unlike Gearscore which is totally factual and objective, this is fact-free and entirely subjective and just ripe for being used as a griefing tool.

    Congratulations, you've come up with an add-on that's even worse than Gearscore.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    No indeed, unlike Gearscore which is totally factual and objective, this is fact-free and entirely subjective and just ripe for being used as a griefing tool.

    Congratulations, you've come up with an add-on that's even worse than Gearscore.
    don't like knowing what other players think of you or think of other players? then don't download it.

    a subjective rating of a player by his peers is far more valuable than a some predetermined stat weight set by the addon developer which may or may not actually be correct for every player (gearscore).

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baanano View Post
    1) I think you should include a friendly UI if you want the playerbase to use it.

    2, 3, 4) You could store two average ratings: the normal one and one that only counts votes from the player social network (that is, his guild and, once we have access to that info, his friends). That way if the player suspects the general rating has been poisoned due to a sybil attack, he can use the other rating.

    As of the voter identity, it shouldn't be anonymous. In any case I suppose you'll store the voter identity in saved vars to prevent double voting, so if any player wants to see the voter identity he would only need to open the saved variables file and search it.
    yes it wouldn't be completely anonymous but i don't think i want it to be as easy as simply looking up who voted for you in-game.

    example: you're in a pug and the leader is an a-hole, you rate him low, he would notice his score go down and then would probably boot you out. if he had to search the saved variables each time then there would be enough of a time buffer to avoid immediate retribution.

    also thanks for mentioning sybil attack, i looked it up and it gives me some ideas to change the rating system. i could try and aim to make it more like the google page rank system:

    More sophisticated algorithms scale an individual entity's contribution to other nodes' reputations by that entity's own reputation. PageRank is such a system, used for ranking web pages based on the link structure of the web. In PageRank, each web page's contribution to another page is proportional to its own pagerank, and inversely proportional to its number of outlinks.
    this would also allow for a simple UI where your target frame might have 3 small buttons next to it, a "thumbs up" "neutral" and "thumbs down"
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 04-01-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Imhothar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    don't like knowing what other players think of you or think of other players? then don't download it.

    a subjective rating of a player by his peers is far more valuable than a some predetermined stat weight set by the addon developer which may or may not actually be correct for every player (gearscore).
    Well, to be honest, he has a point.

    Not downloading the addon does not mean other players won't continue using it. Let's face it, there are enough idiots out there who try to abuse any such system simply "because they can".
    When you're unlucky someone might spread a bad score about you just because they don't like your character's face and there is little you can do to prevent it...

    I'm generally against any addon to rate other players, characters, their gear, or whatever. They all have too much potential to be abused and make the gaming experience of some people disastrous, even if they don't actually "deserve" it (questionable whether anyone "deserves" anything like that). Never forget it's real human beings on the other end of the cable.

    Gearscore at least has objective rules. They may not always be correct, but at least objective. But even with Gearscore using obejctive rules to rate other players it could drastically influence a player's social gaming experience. It isn't the fault of Gearscore, but of human society.
    Last edited by Imhothar; 04-01-2012 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    Can you make a troll rating? I'd love to try and aim for it! :P

    Do you use skype btw? Wouldnt mind a quick chat.
    A remnant of special olympics world first hammerknell - 27th July 2011 - Best raid ever to be opened. I was a mighty warrior tank. Had many friends and was appreciated in the community.

    Looking back at RIFT is bittersweet. Ah damn.

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    LF3M ROS Must Rank 8 or Higher, Link Achieve and Gearscore.

    Hooray

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    LF3M ROS Must Rank 8 or Higher, Link Achieve and Gearscore.

    Hooray
    Nothing wrong with gear score, it isn't as accurate as some people like. E.g. it cannot factor in generally good players who've just started out but are in bad gear. But it filters out a lot of the bad players.

    People get gear by going to raids and being good. It's the simplest way to get a stress-free pug.
    A remnant of special olympics world first hammerknell - 27th July 2011 - Best raid ever to be opened. I was a mighty warrior tank. Had many friends and was appreciated in the community.

    Looking back at RIFT is bittersweet. Ah damn.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Best April fools ever.


    I did actually think OP was serious.


    +1.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    OP, if you are on Keenblade NA, how the hell did you take that SS on Blightweald EU?

    Ahh, I'mm guessing you and Spooon were on PTS. Well confuddling for a mo.
    Last edited by Anuhart; 04-01-2012 at 06:06 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imhothar View Post
    Well, to be honest, he has a point.

    Not downloading the addon does not mean other players won't continue using it. Let's face it, there are enough idiots out there who try to abuse any such system simply "because they can".
    When you're unlucky someone might spread a bad score about you just because they don't like your character's face and there is little you can do to prevent it...

    I'm generally against any addon to rate other players, characters, their gear, or whatever. They all have too much potential to be abused and make the gaming experience of some people disastrous, even if they don't actually "deserve" it (questionable whether anyone "deserves" anything like that). Never forget it's real human beings on the other end of the cable.

    Gearscore at least has objective rules. They may not always be correct, but at least objective. But even with Gearscore using obejctive rules to rate other players it could drastically influence a player's social gaming experience. It isn't the fault of Gearscore, but of human society.
    yes, i'm going to attempt to solve this problem with a proper rating system, not just a simple average. i'm going to weight each players ratings based on how other people have rated them. i'm going to limit the rating system to level 50 only as well to prevent mass spamming of alts


    Quote Originally Posted by Nuxt View Post
    Can you make a troll rating? I'd love to try and aim for it! :P

    Do you use skype btw? Wouldnt mind a quick chat.
    i don't use skype but i do use mumble, i'm sure my guild wouldn't mind, if you're on the Riftuidev IRC we can arrange something

    Quote Originally Posted by Traciatim View Post
    LF3M ROS Must Rank 8 or Higher, Link Achieve and Gearscore.

    Hooray
    gearscore? this addon will merely be a measure of players attitude and skill the exact opposite of gearscore, i'm sure many people who pug RoS/GSB/HK would like to avoid grouping with all the DPS'ers who pull before the tank does, all the healers who go AFK in the middle of boss fights, tanks who can't hold aggro, and all the random a-holes out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    Best April fools ever.


    I did actually think OP was serious.


    +1.
    unfortunately i am serious, if you have any constructive input then this is your chance to infuence the direction of this addon before it goes live. i could release it as is but i actually want to avoid making rift's version of gearscore v2.0
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 04-01-2012 at 06:43 PM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuxt View Post
    Nothing wrong with gear score, it isn't as accurate as some people like. E.g. it cannot factor in generally good players who've just started out but are in bad gear. But it filters out a lot of the bad players.

    People get gear by going to raids and being good. It's the simplest way to get a stress-free pug.
    The best way I found to filter obnoxious and incompetent players was to avoid any group with a gearscore requirement. This helped a lot.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  14. #14
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    unfortunately i am serious, if you have any constructive input then this is your chance to infuence the direction of this addon before it goes live. i could release it as is but i actually want to avoid making rift's version of gearscore v2.0
    There is obviously a flaw in it somewhere. Spooon is no more than a 5.










    Teach him to call me a nab

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuxt View Post
    People get gear by being carried through raids
    There we go, fixed that.

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