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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Addons Enabled - Kills FPS bigtime

  1. #1
    Plane Walker Haipaa's Avatar
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    Default Addons Enabled - Kills FPS bigtime

    Hey, last night when the shards went down, and all Addons got disabled, I noted my FPS was extremely good, talking 60-80fps on Ultra Settings, even with Supersamling on, usually go around 40ish, or 30-35fps in raids(regardless of Video Quality, Low, Ultra, same FPS).

    So, this morning I tested enabling 1 single Addon, Karuulalert, and my FPS dropped by 25-30, both in and outside of combat.

    So tested enabling another addon, same thing.

    Addons tested: King Boss Mods, Super Meter, Karuulalert.

    It doesnt matter if I use 1 addon, or 3, FPS drops by the same amount.

    My Addon CPU goes to Max 1.4% CPU usage, so its not alot.

    Specs are:

    i7 2600k 3.9GHZ
    GTX 580
    SSD 120GB
    8GB RAM

    The game feels extremely optimized without addons enabled, even good FPS in meridian.

    I know addons should decrease FPS, but by 25+ ? really?
    AFK.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Semele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haipaa View Post
    Hey, last night when the shards went down, and all Addons got disabled, I noted my FPS was extremely good, talking 60-80fps on Ultra Settings, even with Supersamling on, usually go around 40ish, or 30-35fps in raids(regardless of Video Quality, Low, Ultra, same FPS).

    So, this morning I tested enabling 1 single Addon, Karuulalert, and my FPS dropped by 25-30, both in and outside of combat.

    So tested enabling another addon, same thing.

    Addons tested: King Boss Mods, Super Meter, Karuulalert.

    It doesnt matter if I use 1 addon, or 3, FPS drops by the same amount.

    My Addon CPU goes to Max 1.4% CPU usage, so its not alot.

    Specs are:

    i7 2600k 3.9GHZ
    GTX 580
    SSD 120GB
    8GB RAM

    The game feels extremely optimized without addons enabled, even good FPS in meridian.

    I know addons should decrease FPS, but by 25+ ? really?
    That does seem extremely excessive. I work hard at CPU and Frame Rate optimizations for KBM, and this is on going.

    For me, with a lesser machine (not by a massive margin, see below), I have around 5fps max drop when I have King Boss Mods, Mark-It and AddWatch running. Oddly, it's the same with just KBM loaded without its plug-ins.

    Specs:
    i7 2600k 4Ghz
    GTX 560Ti 448 Core
    Velociraptor HD
    16GB 1.9Ghz Ram

    Probably worth seeing some more tests come through for this from other players.
    Last edited by Semele; 03-24-2012 at 07:22 AM.
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker Haipaa's Avatar
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    Also to add, This huge FPS drop was mainly during Raids, instead of having around 20-25fps in combat, I went to 50-55fps by disabling Karuul alert and King Boss Mods.

    I used Karuul and NkRebuff at same time once, and it made the whole game unplayable, 5-10FPS in combat and freezes, apparently those two don't work well together

    For example in Meridian:

    FPS with only Karuul: 37 FPS
    With King Boss mods: 37 FPS
    With Super Meter: 37 FPS
    FPS Without ANY addons: 45 FPS

    Thats 8 fps loss by just standing still, in raids its 25ish fps drop for me.


    Also, thins like Opening the Map, Zoning, Clicking on NPC's is responding alot faster with Addons Disabled.

    I cant be the only one with this
    Last edited by Haipaa; 03-24-2012 at 06:04 AM.
    AFK.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Another data point:
    Hardware:
    core i7 920
    AMD 5870 (XFX branded one)
    6GB RAM
    SSD storage

    Gfx configured as high, res is 1920x1200 with vsync off, in FullScreen mode

    Sat in meridian:
    no addons: 37fps
    Just karuul alerts: 36-37fps (note I've not configured it though)
    Just KBM: 34-36fps
    Just Simple Meter: 34-35fps
    Just nkrebuff: 34-35fps
    Just Mere Healing Frames: 35fps
    Just Trion Dev Tools: 35fps
    kbm, simple meter & nkrebuff: 34-35fps
    back to no addons: 37fps

    I have noticed that even when I know my addon is doing nothing (it's event driven and there are no events), that it burns some CPU just by being on screen, so there's something about having addons enabled and active that impacts fps. (actually hiding my addon drops the CPU to 0.0%, from 0.2% for the addon)

    However, I'm not showing the huge drop (25fps) that your seeing, maybe a 5-10% drop in fps

  5. #5
    Plane Walker Kreiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mere View Post
    I have noticed that even when I know my addon is doing nothing (it's event driven and there are no events), that it burns some CPU just by being on screen, so there's something about having addons enabled and active that impacts fps. (actually hiding my addon drops the CPU to 0.0%, from 0.2% for the addon)
    Visible frames consume CPU even if their attributes aren't being changed.
    Last edited by Kreiri; 03-24-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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  6. #6
    Plane Walker Imhothar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreiri View Post
    Visible frames consume CPU even if their attributes aren't being changed.
    Aye, showing all my frames (100+ item buttons) gets my addon to about 12% CPU usage, allthough the addon code itself is completely idle. However I noticed the Trion inventory frames causing a higher FPS drop than my own frames when visible, which is kinda confusing.

  7. #7
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    I don't know how that addon CPU% really works. I would think that Rift assigns n% of the total CPU usage to the addon kernel and the addon CPU% shows how much of that is used. I'd be largely suprised if 10% addon usages would mean 10% core usage.

    Two observations I made. Not exact science though:

    (1) If an addon displays a lot of visible frames it eats a lot of CPU. nkAdvisor peaks to 6% CPU usage allthough the only thing it does is display UI elements. Feels a bit excessive IMHO especially as I don't draw tab content until it's been accessed at least once.

    (2) If an addon registers events it will eat the more CPU time the more of these events fire. Actually that's a logical thing. Say for example if an addon watches the buff event that routine gets fired for every buff made in a raid evironment. So in a raid (or invasion) you'll see a larger CPU usage from addons which depend on events.

    However I see very little FPS impact on my machine. For most people I think you'll see a low 2-3 FPS drop in most cases. Though for a very few people it looks like they take a larger hit. No clue why though.

    Cheers
    N.
    Last edited by Naifu; 03-24-2012 at 09:12 AM.

  8.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naifu View Post
    I don't know how that addon CPU% really works. I would think that Rift assigns n% of the total CPU usage to the addon kernel and the addon CPU% shows how much of that is used. I'd be largely suprised if 10% addon usages would mean 10% core usage.
    10% addon usage means that, out of one hundred seconds of real time spent, Rift is spending 10 seconds dealing with the addon system. As Rift is somewhat multithreaded this doesn't directly translate into a 10% framerate drop, but there's no attempt made at capping the addon system to a specific percentage of CPU (I'm not sure how that would even be possible, to be honest.)

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    I have an older Nvidia 8800 GTS (unfortunately can't remember the brand) with a Core 2 Duo 3ghz something something. Normally get around 25FPS running around Sanctum or Meridian, set custom settings bumped a little above "MEDIUM". If I have Kharuul installed and enabled, I lost 18 FPS easily. Yes that drops my FPS down to around 7 FPS doing absolutely nothing but staring at a wall. If I have KBM installed and enabled (by itself or with anything else) I take a 10 FPS dent. If I use any "nk" addons, seperate or together, they take about 10 FPS off the top.

    KBM + nk Addons together, about -12 FPS.

    I don't have the "leanest" / "meanest" of rigs, but there is definitely some refining that needs to be done with the addon API.

  10. #10
    RIFT Community Ambassador the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    That's... interesting. I run a bunch of addons (admittedly, mostly mine), and I don't think they affect frame rates at all. I mean, except for when I was testing goofball with 25 balls on screen.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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    This thread made me try something in regards to my recent FPS problem. Surprisingly, it worked.

    See http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-recently.html for all the details, but basically...

    With the Know Thine Enemy addon, it constantly used 25-50% addon CPU when in group V group combat, and thus caused my FPS to constantly dip below 10, wherein it is normally 25-30 or so. I tested with and without the addon - and this specific addon was definitely the issue.

    Roughly speaking, it checks each and every ability thrown around, compares it to the ability XML files, and then shows you the souls they(your target) are using. NerfedWar should be able to elaborate.

    I haven't had any noticeable FPS issues with addons before, but this one was.. pretty bad.
    Last edited by TimeBomb; 03-24-2012 at 02:53 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser NerfedWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeBomb View Post
    This thread made me try something in regards to my recent FPS problem. Surprisingly, it worked.

    See http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-recently.html for all the details, but basically...

    With the Know Thine Enemy addon, it constantly used 25-50% addon CPU when in group V group combat, and thus caused my FPS to constantly dip below 10, wherein it is normally 25-30 or so. I tested with and without the addon - and this specific addon was definitely the issue.

    Roughly speaking, it checks each and every ability thrown around, compares it to the ability XML files, and then shows you the souls they(your target) are using. NerfedWar should be able to elaborate.

    I haven't had any noticeable FPS issues with addons before, but this one was.. pretty bad.
    Yup, all that buff handling may not be such a cute idea after all. Working on it and warnings put up.
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  13. #13
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    I run KBM and Simple Meter.

    Since I tank, might as well remove simple meter and just parse the combat log file after raid has finished. But KBM is vital to me. The timers bar helps coordinate better movements. E.g. Akylios, I tank akylios and when he submerges I go and tank some lashers but need to make sure I'm back before he comes up, So I use the KBM timer to track this.

    I'm not testing it with it disabled in raids until wednesday, Will try for murdantix. (Tank swap in KBM is also vital to me to keep track of stacks) KBM is simply the best addon for rift no question, I know the guys optimize it as much as they can as a third party. Currently I'm on a GTX 480 but have a GTX 680 coming in the next few weeks I hope.

    Although we have to remember the addon system is in beta, but quite rightly a 25fps drop should not be normal for any addon system! Lets see how my frames go :P
    Last edited by Nuxt; 03-24-2012 at 08:25 PM.
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    my personal theory:


    the large FPS drop that is caused by enabling an addon (any addon) is due to the way the addon system itself works. its probably because the addon system is completely non-functioning when you have 0 addons enabled. the way your client handles things actually changes just by enabling 1 addon which in turn enables the whole addon system

    i realized this a while ago when i was setting up the cleanse macro that someone made on riftstrats.com for the general silgen fight, there is a warning there that the macro won't work without an addon enabled (doesn't matter which addon). this means that some functionality is changed just by enabling the addon system with 1 addon.

    this might be because the addon system wasn't developed at the time the client was developed. it was added later and so the game client is probably not optimized to work perfectly with the addon system.
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 03-24-2012 at 10:41 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    i realized this a while ago when i was setting up the cleanse macro that someone made on riftstrats.com for the general silgen fight, there is a warning there that the macro won't work without an addon enabled (doesn't matter which addon). this means that some functionality is changed just by enabling the addon system with 1 addon.
    This is a bug. Report it.

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