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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: [Addon] Rift Healer

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
    @ZorbaTHut
    So the general consensus is access to slash commands within addons (forget right clicking, we can do our own custom menus for that) and more efficient ways of handling events (without throttling? If at all possible... Even 200ms shoots up cpu usage).
    General slash commands are doable if you're out of battle - just use the same functionality used for click-to-cast. You can even set them up out of battle, then use them in battle, you just can't change in-battle. You won't get the ability to change them in battle because that's a short route to bots and automation :V If it's right-click menus that you need, we'll likely have to provide hooks for those ourselves.

    What events are you having trouble with, and what do you mean by "even 200ms shoots up cpu usage"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    General slash commands are doable if you're out of battle - just use the same functionality used for click-to-cast. You can even set them up out of battle, then use them in battle, you just can't change in-battle. You won't get the ability to change them in battle because that's a short route to bots and automation :V If it's right-click menus that you need, we'll likely have to provide hooks for those ourselves.

    What events are you having trouble with, and what do you mean by "even 200ms shoots up cpu usage"?
    Prepare for a wall of Text

    Sorry I wasn't fully awake when I said what I said, so allow me to elaborate.

    When you right click someone on a raid frame (with leadership rights) you have the ability to set loot rules, thresholds, readychecks, marking, reset instances, dungeon difficulty, and leave group. When you right click your target frame (this is what I want the most) you have the options to tell, inspect, follow, trade, uninvite, promote, add to friends, duel and do marks. As far as I know, no addon can do that, this is what I meant by giving us the ability to do slash commands without a macro. This might be what you mean by "short route to bots and automation" but if you allow this to happen (implementations of slash commands without macros) the API should limit you to w/e macro restrictions have. Now that I think of this request more, the more complicated it seems. Maybe a hook would be the only way for now : /

    My second request has to do with handling updates on frames. For example when I modified Rift Healer I had to throttle everything down to ~300ms update intervals (this interval is understandable). However, when you're monitoring HP/Resource/Range/Threat/Buffs/Debuffs/Cooldowns(self/others abilities) in a 20 man environment CPU usage rises like crazy. Anything above 5% is too extreme (imo) I had it go up as high as 30% before I decided to stop. This might be my fault as I'm not a proficient coder when it comes to LUA but based on similar addons and authors they all seem to have the same problem. Is this our or the API's fault? Perhaps a combination?
    Last edited by Minervah; 02-15-2012 at 04:30 AM.
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  3.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
    When you right click someone on a raid frame (with leadership rights) you have the ability to set loot rules, thresholds, readychecks, marking, reset instances, dungeon difficulty, and leave group. When you right click your target frame (this is what I want the most) you have the options to tell, inspect, follow, trade, uninvite, promote, add to friends, duel and do marks. As far as I know, no addon can do that, this is what I meant by giving us the ability to do slash commands without a macro. This might be what you mean by "short route to bots and automation" but if you allow this to happen (implementations of slash commands without macros) the API should limit you to w/e macro restrictions have. Now that I think of this request more, the more complicated it seems. Maybe a hook would be the only way for now : /
    The best solution here is probably going to be providing a function that opens the right-click menu at the cursor for whatever unit you want. Opening up generic slash command usage is a giant security hole (for example, "/cast whatever") and trying to come up with some kind of "safe" set of slash commands seems dubious as well.

    Some of those bits of functionality should probably be doable within the addon system, but some probably won't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
    My second request has to do with handling updates on frames. For example when I modified Rift Healer I had to throttle everything down to ~300ms update intervals (this interval is understandable). However, when you're monitoring HP/Resource/Range/Threat/Buffs/Debuffs/Cooldowns(self/others abilities) in a 20 man environment CPU usage rises like crazy. Anything above 5% is too extreme (imo) I had it go up as high as 30% before I decided to stop. This might be my fault as I'm not a proficient coder when it comes to LUA but based on similar addons and authors they all seem to have the same problem. Is this our or the API's fault? Perhaps a combination?
    I suppose it really depends on how you're doing it. Note that merely hooking an event takes very little CPU. What you *do* with the event might be another matter altogether. There are some frame manipulations that are a lot slower than they ideally would be, but we may be out of room for optimization.

    Obviously if you're doing something like reordering and changing every buff icon for every player every frame, things might run a bit slow.

    I'll actually be posting an updated and faster version of Zorba's Buff Bars soon which might give a few suggestions for optimization.

    All that said, if you've got an example of a situation that seems slower than it should be, post it and I can take a look at it. It's kind of tough to do optimization work in a vacuum - I need addon examples.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    The best solution here is probably going to be providing a function that opens the right-click menu at the cursor for whatever unit you want. Opening up generic slash command usage is a giant security hole (for example, "/cast whatever") and trying to come up with some kind of "safe" set of slash commands seems dubious as well.

    Some of those bits of functionality should probably be doable within the addon system, but some probably won't be.
    Honestly I think that the ability to interact with player, raid and target frames is a MASSIVE glaring hole in the addon API. I write a few script languages, sadly not LUA so I cannot speak as to the security of adding in right click menu functionality however...

    Couldn't you create some sort of interaction with right click on players user interfaces that is limited to players? I mean, right now right click gets you tell, inspect, follow, trade, uninvite, promote, add to friends, duel and mark 1-8, how could any of that be abused?

    I'm not suggesting that you allow cast etc, because I can immediately see how that could be scripted and used by botters/cheaters/scum of the universe. But the default right click stuff in a function that is called when you right.click target.frame (or whatever the LUA is) for player targets only is surely safe? Can anyone give me an example of how it could be realistically used to create security issues?

    I might even go so far as to say that you could safely 'mark' NPC (friends and enemies) frames with no danger?

  5.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Couldn't you create some sort of interaction with right click on players user interfaces that is limited to players? I mean, right now right click gets you tell, inspect, follow, trade, uninvite, promote, add to friends, duel and mark 1-8, how could any of that be abused?
    Well, lessee.

    Tell isn't terribly harmful because it doesn't actually do anything, just puts a different UI element into a different mode. It's also not really all that useful - I'd rather spend the time rigging up an actual chat API.

    Inspect, at the moment, would be harmless because addon developers can't actually look at the inspected equipment. Given that ability, it would be a colossal load on the servers and would let people make GearScore, which is one of the more . . . controversial, let's say . . . addons.

    Follow lets you, to some extent, automate movement. I can easily imagine raid addons set up to "follow" specific players at opportune moments in order to dodge attacks.

    Trade lets you spam other players, as does Duel.

    Uninvite and Promote are fine, and will probably show up in a future Group API. Add to Friends is similarly fine and will probably show up in a future Social API.

    Mark is actually a colossal security hole. Our macros allow you to target abilities based on a mark. If addons could mark things arbitrarily, then addons could autotarget spells for you.

    Finally, these aren't all the right-click elements. For example, right-clicking on the *player* will give you a different set. Right-clicking on a pet will give you yet another different set. As much as I'd like to write many of these functions, this is where I have to prioritize.

    Worst, though, even if I did write all these functions, it wouldn't really solve the problem. What raid addon developers want is a function which is "pop up the right-click window". If the right-click window changes - which it does all the time, I personally have a suggested change percolating through the system right now - then most addon developers want it to Just Work, not to have to go back and reimplement their right-click window to match up with whatever the new behavior is.

    My final analysis is sort of a combination of "some parts aren't safe", "it's a lot of work that can be better spent on other projects", and "it doesn't really solve the problem that people want solved".
    Last edited by ZorbaTHut; 02-15-2012 at 08:47 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    The best solution here is probably going to be providing a function that opens the right-click menu at the cursor for whatever unit you want. Opening up generic slash command usage is a giant security hole (for example, "/cast whatever") and trying to come up with some kind of "safe" set of slash commands seems dubious as well.

    Some of those bits of functionality should probably be doable within the addon system, but some probably won't be.



    I suppose it really depends on how you're doing it. Note that merely hooking an event takes very little CPU. What you *do* with the event might be another matter altogether. There are some frame manipulations that are a lot slower than they ideally would be, but we may be out of room for optimization.

    Obviously if you're doing something like reordering and changing every buff icon for every player every frame, things might run a bit slow.

    I'll actually be posting an updated and faster version of Zorba's Buff Bars soon which might give a few suggestions for optimization.

    All that said, if you've got an example of a situation that seems slower than it should be, post it and I can take a look at it. It's kind of tough to do optimization work in a vacuum - I need addon examples.
    I see, I figured you'd respond like this for my stupid questions lol. I haven't started coding the addon to give examples or request actual API features. But thank you so much for taking the time to respond, I know you are very busy.

    Community Update:
    I've decided to take on the task of developing this addon. I had a chance to discuss it with RagebeastRT (Rift healer author). The addon unfortunately needs an epic overhaul. I will take my time planning the routines well and have open discussions about how to deliver best efficiency with functionality. We need the addon to be something concise, agile and robust. I promise to try my best to give Rift its 1st fully customizable RaidUI addon.

    I am trying to finish my work related projects this week and will soon start to write some pseudo code that will hint you to what the addon will as well as criticize it. I will also clearly summarize the goals for the long term, what the addon will and will not do, and request initial thoughts and help from other addon authors.
    Last edited by Minervah; 02-15-2012 at 08:55 AM.
    Gloomyfridays @ Briarcliff. bbl for sig contest.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    Well, lessee.


    Inspect, at the moment, would be harmless because addon developers can't actually look at the inspected equipment. Given that ability, it would be a colossal load on the servers and would let people make GearScore, which is one of the more . . . controversial, let's say . . . addons.

    Follow lets you, to some extent, automate movement. I can easily imagine raid addons set up to "follow" specific players at opportune moments in order to dodge attacks.

    Trade lets you spam other players, as does Duel.

    Mark is actually a colossal security hole. Our macros allow you to target abilities based on a mark. If addons could mark things arbitrarily, then addons could autotarget spells for you.

    Finally, these aren't all the right-click elements. For example, right-clicking on the *player* will give you a different set. Right-clicking on a pet will give you yet another different set. As much as I'd like to write many of these functions, this is where I have to prioritize.

    Worst, though, even if I did write all these functions, it wouldn't really solve the problem. What raid addon developers want is a function which is "pop up the right-click window". If the right-click window changes - which it does all the time, I personally have a suggested change percolating through the system right now - then most addon developers want it to Just Work, not to have to go back and reimplement their right-click window to match up with whatever the new behavior is.

    My final analysis is sort of a combination of "some parts aren't safe", "it's a lot of work that can be better spent on other projects", and "it doesn't really solve the problem that people want solved".
    Edited your post a bit for the irrelevant bits, but I think you are missing my point/question.

    I am not suggesting for a moment that you place the ability to call any of the right click functionality into the Addon API nor allow Addons to call these functions.

    What I am suggesting is that when a frame designated as say, a player.frame or target.frame or raid.frame is interacted via the mouse right click, that the same mouse interactive menu appear that appears for the default UI. That's it, that is what is missing and stops I think many UI developers from creating the variety of addons we see in that other game.

    Please forgive my ignorance of LUA and in no way do I intend any disrespect to you or anyone else, I simply cannot understand why the Addon API cannot call a function with players interact with frames in the same way that the default UI does, without ever exposing the function or giving the full power of the function to the Addon. I write a great deal of web code in various languages, and there are frequently functions that I call that are not mine to do with as I wish, I can simply take advantage of their functionality by calling them in the right time and place.

  8.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Please forgive my ignorance of LUA and in no way do I intend any disrespect to you or anyone else, I simply cannot understand why the Addon API cannot call a function with players interact with frames in the same way that the default UI does, without ever exposing the function or giving the full power of the function to the Addon. I write a great deal of web code in various languages, and there are frequently functions that I call that are not mine to do with as I wish, I can simply take advantage of their functionality by calling them in the right time and place.
    Because I haven't yet written the binding so the addon environment can call that function. As I said, the solution is probably going to be "I set it up so that can happen".

    (It won't be via right-click, though, because not everyone wants right-click to have that behavior - it'll probably just be a function that addons can call when they want. I can't think of any problems that could be caused by that.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    Because I haven't yet written the binding so the addon environment can call that function. As I said, the solution is probably going to be "I set it up so that can happen".

    (It won't be via right-click, though, because not everyone wants right-click to have that behavior - it'll probably just be a function that addons can call when they want. I can't think of any problems that could be caused by that.)
    Ah well that makes sense I do hope some free time comes your way soon, I should very much like to see that functionality so that more UI and raid frame addons are made, I do honestly believe that the lack of interactiveness is holding them back.

    Thankyou for your time and patience explaining that for me

  10.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Ah well that makes sense I do hope some free time comes your way soon, I should very much like to see that functionality so that more UI and raid frame addons are made, I do honestly believe that the lack of interactiveness is holding them back.

    Thankyou for your time and patience explaining that for me
    Keep in mind it's more of a priority queue than anything else - I've got lots of time, I just have to decide which part of the addon system would be most beneficial to spend that time on. Which is, frequently, not an easy decision.

    And no problem about the explanation

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZorbaTHut View Post
    Keep in mind it's more of a priority queue than anything else - I've got lots of time, I just have to decide which part of the addon system would be most beneficial to spend that time on. Which is, frequently, not an easy decision.

    And no problem about the explanation
    Well, let me ease the decision making process by giving the "right click function for addon UI's" a +1 vote

  12. #42
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    I'm still busy sadly with 3 on going project in real life so I have not been able to put out an alpha version of my new raidui addon which I am calling Lifebinder.

    Therefore, acheliuspjr on the RiftUI forum has come up with a new version which you can get at http://www.riftui.com/downloads/info213-RiftHbot.html

    The improvements it has are minimal for now but have a big impact. The changes are:
    • New Config UI
    • New Buff/Debuff tracking
    • New RaidUI style
    • New Aggro Detection
    • Optimized Code
    • The rest of the changes that occurred in 1.6 like LoS and OoR detection.
    For the time being please show your support to acheliuspj.
    Gloomyfridays @ Briarcliff. bbl for sig contest.

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    Love this add on, I was all kinds of excited to see there was a healbot type add on in this game. That being said there were a few issues i have noticed with it. I still have to show my regular raid frames because i can not see when i have to cleanse people on the rift heal add on so having 2 sets of raid frames eats a ton of my screen. Also this add on works amazing in 5 man and 10 man settings i tried to take it allong to RoS last night on an alt run and omg was like waching myself teleport around the dungeon. I couldnt even heal effectivly with it the lag was so bad with it in the 20 man compared to the 10 man. even standing in sanctum alone was the same thing when i turned it off no lag at all. Is there any way that you could use the same add on using the in game raidframes? I know its a work in progress and ill have to be patient just makig you aware of the 2 things that ive noticed is all : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torso View Post
    Love this add on, I was all kinds of excited to see there was a healbot type add on in this game. That being said there were a few issues i have noticed with it. I still have to show my regular raid frames because i can not see when i have to cleanse people on the rift heal add on so having 2 sets of raid frames eats a ton of my screen. Also this add on works amazing in 5 man and 10 man settings i tried to take it allong to RoS last night on an alt run and omg was like waching myself teleport around the dungeon. I couldnt even heal effectivly with it the lag was so bad with it in the 20 man compared to the 10 man. even standing in sanctum alone was the same thing when i turned it off no lag at all. Is there any way that you could use the same add on using the in game raidframes? I know its a work in progress and ill have to be patient just makig you aware of the 2 things that ive noticed is all : )
    if you are referring to rifhbot is probably this:
    There was a problem when like 10 or 20 buffs are removed at the same time (expiring or dispelled) this bug causes lag (noticed while playing with my purifier cleric, while using gathering of the ancients)

    i will release version without that bug but, for future releases, protonova(minervah) and I are reorganizing the files and creating something a lot better regarding personalization and features


    if you are refferring to rifthealer i can't say anything, it isn't optimized and uses too much cpu
    Last edited by Rompa; 03-21-2012 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #45
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    RiftHbot is awesome (you guys should make a new thread for it :P), but was wondering if there was any way to hide the little role bar at the top? I love the raid frames but find that bar rather unnecessary :s


    thumbs up for a great mod though.

    edit: nevermind, I am dumb. I see that it disappears in combat, that's pretty nice. Although I wish I could hide it all the time, it's not enough for a complaint!

    One other question to replace that one- I don't suppose there's a way to enable all debuffs to show by default is there? Or rather, the opposite of the way it's setup now. Say you pick the buffs/debuffs you -dont- want to show up instead of having to list all the ones you do.
    Last edited by rantology; 03-21-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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