Defiants vs Guardians WF
Hello, new player here that just bought the game and had a real quick question. Me and my friends are are interested in joining this server but were curious at 50, which side wins more WFs. I ask this cause we generally prefer a challenge so wish to roll on the side that is not winning as often. Thank you for your time.
Sounds to me like a veiled attempt to make sure you roll on the dominant side for easy WF wins. These posts were very common in WoW. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and tell you the truth. Premades win more than pugs and faction is irrelevant.
When the cluster first opened, Guardian premades were mercilessly dominant. Then Defiant premades became more prevalent. Lately, I see active premades on both sides.
I'd say roll whichever faction you enjoy more since WFs will probably change by the time your reach max level, especially with server transfers imminent.
Experience is not a substitute for knowledge.
While I understand your wearyness, I can assure it it is not a "veiled attempt" at finding out such information. If you think about it, would you prefer being in a match where even if you did nothing you won, or in one where you could make a difference even if you might lose? Thank you for your answer though, guess we'll just see which appeals to us.
I play a 50 Guardian in warfronts all the time, and it really depends on the time of day, and what warfront you're in as to whether you win or lose.Originally Posted by KNADavid
The Defiants have some tough premades, and so do the Guardians.
In my experience, I win as many as I lose.
Cool, think we'll go guardians then since I think on these servers they are outnumbered and so should be faster que's. Thanks all.
Except for WoW, Horde always dominated bgs. Its not exactly the same here, due to shallow player pools with only 3 server brackets. Not sure how that would change with server transfers and maybe, mergers.
Pretty much any time of the day (cept perhaps 3am-10am when I've never played) defiant dominates pretty much all the WFs.
Play guardian if you want a "challenge". These days that means highly geared r5-6 players that are probably a pre-made versus r1-3 undergeared pugs. Almost all the guardian pre-mades have dried up in the last 2 months and those you do find are probably not geared or high PR.
I've lost my way up to 30k to r6 and on the verge of not even trying to finish r6. We get so little favor I'll have 1 piece of r6 gear (not counting the 1 weapon I had to repurchase after wasting 192k on the previously r5, now r4 weapons).
It's brutal, if you like a challenge you'll like it. I'm burning out on losing personally tho. Was really hoping they'd do something about pug v pre-made or merge some clusters together.
Last edited by Celestian; 05-23-2011 at 11:34 AM.
Celestian, 50: Assassin(51), Faeblight/Guardian
http://www.greycouncil.US/
Hi!
I am a Guardian From Sunrest so I thought I would give you an outside In point of view.
As far as pugs go (which lately I dont have as much experience as I once did) it is usually pretty even. As long as you do all you can to avoid fighting pug vs premade. Growing up with the first wave of 50s Guardians dominated every bracket for the most part. PUG wise it has evened out a bit at the top.
Premade: usually in a night with 6 hours to PvP we might lose 1-2 games all night and of course they are only to other premades. We get a lot of puggers that will know when we que and try to que at same time as us even from other servers. We are pretty geared and PvP is all we ever do with the exception of a few PvErs that join us before raids or have recently taken an interest in PvP. Your mileage will vary depending on who your guild is and who your friends are. Someone that ques alone all day will have a vastly different experience than someone that ques with even 1-2 other friends who will also have a different experience than someone that ques with a 5 man premade. I cannot speak for every time frame but eastern time 6pm-11pm this is the case and pretty much all day sundays.
QUE times on guardian side on peak times are instant. Non peak times still not very long.
I cannot speak for your world PvP on your server of course.
To sum it all up. You will win a lot if you que with 2-3 a ton if you que 4-5 and not so much if you solo que
Did a few hours of warfronts last night queueing as a solo Guardian. Went 12-6 across all 4 warfronts. Some of those wins were thanks to Bahatsu and the Esti Effu premades ( /bow) but most were just pugs working well together and communicating. More than one of those wins involved handing a Defiant premade their ***.
As Bahatsu said earlier, queueing solo is bound to be less fruitful than queueing as a group, but that's how it should be. This is group-oriented game and if you're going to play it solo, you have to be prepared to be at a bit of a disadvantage. That said, the "Chicken Littles" of the game who claim this cluster is dominated 24 hrs a day by unbeatable Defiant premades are painting a much more bleak picture than anything I've encounted lately.
Last edited by Ashingara; 05-24-2011 at 10:54 AM.
Experience is not a substitute for knowledge.
That is my experience from the past 2 months. Though, I didn't say it was 24/7. If that's chicken little then I guess it is. Maybe I'm just so bad I cause my team to lose that much but the win/loss ratio when I play is not the rosey picture you're painting. I've been pvping in the 50 bracket on Faeblight since about 3 weeks from release in pugs 90% of the time. About a month after that it's been the way it is now, Defiant dominate. I am lucky to see 1-2 wins during an evening of running 10-12 matches.
Last edited by Celestian; 05-24-2011 at 11:14 AM.
Celestian, 50: Assassin(51), Faeblight/Guardian
http://www.greycouncil.US/
Thread is getting a bit derailed but I felt obligated to post here once more. That comment was not directed at you personally, Celestian. In fact, I missed your post when I skimmed through to the bottom. It was more in reference to the pvp forums which are awash with "lulz Guardians r teh suck" posts. I'm not sure what to say about your luck in WFs but I've been in matches with you and can personally attest that you are far from "bad". My only insight to your experience might be that since you were around during the early 50 WFs and were used to Guardian domination, that losing now is more painful because you are so used to winning. I could be totally wrong though. Either way, I hope you stick around. Never hurts to have another good Guardian around.
Experience is not a substitute for knowledge.
My experience has been different to that. I solo pug warfronts, I have done for over a month, and I win on average around 50% of the matches... of course I don't queue Black Garden so that might be why. Black Garden is too easy to be dominated by premades as it's the warfront that can have the smallest groups. Only queue Codex, Falls, and Scion as a solo pugger, and your win ratio will improve dramatically.
Think we are on Whitefail and Scion ques tonightmy least favs...
Hopefully will see you there!... unless you are the omen of ill fate that you seem to be.. then que Bg only!!!
j/k
Advice: Pugs vs. Premades
Here is a post i Made a few days ago on the PvP forums that may help!
I usually only do warfronts in pre-mades but sometimes everyone is forced to Pug-it. I am fortunate enough to have enough like minded people that play around the same times I do so that really helps. I would personally much rather face another pre-made or a group of people I know because it keeps me on my toes and is a ton of fun. However with the server clustering the way it is that can be difficult. I do believe they need to have a que system that actively attempts to place groups of 3-5 against other groups of 3-5. If they can’t match any because of lack of premade que on the other side then the group can get thrown into the pool with the pugs. But they don’t ask me so below are a few ideas for Puggers to help ease the pain to R6.
1. Build a premade:
If your guild doesn’t support or do much PvP then find some like minded people that you see in the trenches that do. Many times my pre-mades have people in them from other guilds. I have them on my friends list and when I log on I ask them if they want to join me. 92% of the time they have already sent me a /tell because they know when I log on all I do is grab a coffee while my character logs and start chain queing. This doesn’t happen overnight. You have to play with people enough and… socialize. Also if you guild doesn’t PvP much but they see you out there they will often times want to join you and you can get a few people addicted to Warfront ownage!
2. Que Smart:
If you have qued 3 whitefalls in a row only to get steamrolled by the same premade que for something else or wait awhile and re-que to get out of the same cycle as the premade. Also some warfronts are just better for pugging. This depends on your server and faction but you should be able to notice a trend after a while in which warfront your side generally wins the most the time of day you play. A certain premade may be farming scion rep every day at a certain time or play only BG for fast wins. Avoid them.
3. Talk to people and /assist of off them:
If you are a healer and notice someone wrecking house make them your primary heal target. If you are a DPS assist off of another High DPS. Maybe even /tell them and let them know you are doing it or say it in /raid. This allows them to know they are being assisted and choose smart targets. Pay attention when they change targets. IF you see them selected dumb targets like that 51 VK/paly Tank with a healer behind him be NICE and ask him to choose smarter targets or better yet have people assist off of you.
4. Be a good sport:
People from both factions hate playing with tools. People that /yell whiney excuses all the time or bad mouth the team as they are losing. Don’t be a negative nelly either. I don’t know how many times some pugger got in on our pre-made action and said something like “/raid OMG Guardians CAN WIN”. Or our side is winning 800-40 and someone is b*tching about not getting healed at vault. This doesn’t earn you respect.
5. Assist:
I know I already mentioned this… but for the love of pete don’t try to solo kill everyone. Pay attention to who you are fighting against. Call out top healers in /raid or people you know that are HUGE threats so people focus them. Don’t spam raid with this stuff tho and don’t say “WTF GUYS I SAID TO KILL SIR HEALZALOT AND NO ONE IS HELPING F*** I HATE DEFIANTS IM GONNA REROLL AND PWN YOU ALL”.
6. Sometimes You lose:
Yea even in an “uber” premade or in a PUG with 4 healers you will lose. No one can win ALL the time. Understand loss sucks and it hurts pride and we want to make excuses. When this happens try to understand why you lost. Then use tips 1-5 to increase your success next time. A GG or an honorable loss or win can go a long way in helping pay it forward. Most of the time if we are steamrolling a team we finish the game and go on. However if we are against a certain premade that has people we really really dislike or against a poor pug that happens to have 1 or 2 people we don’t care for we do go on /farm mode.
Hope some of these tips can ease the pain of a new 50 popping his Warfront Cherry or even the red eyed veteran that’s about to lose it. If anyone else has any other constructive advice for them please feel free to post!
It's really a "your mileage may vary". I just recently dinged 50 so went from the usually enjoyable and evenly matched 40's bracket to the "omg why did I ding 50 I am getting stomped" feeling. There have been nights where it feels like it's a very very bad night to be a Defiant on your cluster. (Like last night...) And there are nights where it feels like it's a really well played even match on *both* sides, premades or not, and you feel like you had FUN even if you lost by a few points, because everyone gave 100% and fought their butts off.
Like the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Use each WF as a learning experience. Take a look at the opposing players who are wiping the map with your team. What are they doing? What are they casting? What could you do to counter? You may not change the direction of the battle, but you'll be better armed for the next one.
Communicate. 10+ players all with their own agendas and no communication, combined with defeatist attitude about how "their"faction always loses? Yes, you'll lose. But if 10+ players start to communicate and strategize and heal each other and focus on the big opponents- may not win but will probably feel a lot better after that WF ends than they would have just standing on the Hill in Codex waiting to be made into hamburger.
Don't take it personally: yes there will be times the opposing team will rub salt in the wound and GY farm you. It happens. In this game and others. Shrug it off, it's NOT personal. They want their points just as much as you do. I guess I am lucky enough to be on a cluster (Faeblight's) where there seems to be a good respect for a well fought fight from the other faction. Or I haven't come across the mean folks yet
I'm no uber PvP'er, just hit noobrank2 last night, but for the most part I have a great time in the WFs I join, no matter the stompage I receive.
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