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Thread: Why do heals, heal for less value in warfront than in the world?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Why do heals, heal for less value in warfront than in the world?

    As per the question. Noticed my heals when I am in a warfront have a lower value than when I am in the world healing.

    Why is this?

  2. #2
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    Damage is reduced in PvP so that time to kill is more than 0.01 seconds. Healing is reduced proportionally so that time to kill is less than an hour.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    Damage is reduced in PvP so that time to kill is more than 0.01 seconds. Healing is reduced proportionally so that time to kill is less than an hour.
    Imo the TTK is still way too short. Healers can't keep up with the dps of certain souls at all... the TTK that we had in 1.5-1.9 on max PvP gear targets is ideal for my personal tastes. Those fights were long, strategic and fun as hell.
    Elysian - Guardian Rogue and Cleric - Retired veteran from @Briarcliff and @Seastone.

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  4. #4
    Telaran Draknox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuum View Post
    As per the question. Noticed my heals when I am in a warfront have a lower value than when I am in the world healing.

    Why is this?
    This happened several years ago, it was a change with the idea of balancing heals to damage. At the time it was first done, it was needed, a good cleric at the time could heal through several players worth of damage.

    Over the years healing vs damage has drifted away from that intended balance.

  5. #5
    Champion CDagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draknox View Post
    This happened several years ago, it was a change with the idea of balancing heals to damage. At the time it was first done, it was needed, a good cleric at the time could heal through several players worth of damage.

    Over the years healing vs damage has drifted away from that intended balance.
    The days of taking a good old SL era 5 man premade into CQ and wiping 40+ zergs with 2 healers, a Dom and 2 dps of almost any form, will be missed. Though it definitely needed to go.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Damage potential in pvp should always be greater than healing potential. Otherwise no one will ever die with competent healers around. And healers will become even more important than they already are.

    Which means the occasional team without healers will be automatically crushed even more so than they are now.

    The fact that certain souls are so much better than others is a different problem.

  7. #7
    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crab View Post
    Damage potential in pvp should always be greater than healing potential. Otherwise no one will ever die with competent healers around. And healers will become even more important than they already are.

    Which means the occasional team without healers will be automatically crushed even more so than they are now.

    The fact that certain souls are so much better than others is a different problem.
    This actually makes no sense. Healers should be able to outheal one dps because if they didn't they wouldn't be worth 1 DPS. You would be better off DPSing because being on a healer would literally make your team worse.
    Last edited by LOveRH; 03-19-2018 at 03:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOveRH View Post
    This actually makes no sense. Healers should be able to outheal one dps because if they didn't they wouldn't be worth 1 DPS. You would be better off DPSing because being on a healer would literally make your team worse.

    Absolutely. And most decent healers can survive 1v1 without much trouble unless you are up against a vastly superior opponent. The problems come when a healers can heal through 3v1 or 5v1 or more. Which seems to be what you are asking for.

    There's also a difference between survivability and healing others where not all souls/classes are created equally.

    I was speaking in terms of team vs team not individual player vs player. As a healer by themself is fairly useless. If healing output were adjusted upward too much it would not be fun for anyone. Even healers would get bored eventually.

    People need to die for pvp to be fun.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crab View Post
    Absolutely. And most decent healers can survive 1v1 without much trouble unless you are up against a vastly superior opponent. The problems come when a healers can heal through 3v1 or 5v1 or more. Which seems to be what you are asking for.
    I regarded myself as a very top tier healer back in vanilla leading all the way up to 1.9, and at that point in time I probably could have kept myself up against 2-3 players. But as of right now, there certainly are certain dps souls that can take out a healer entirely solo. That is broken.

    I think a healer should be able to outheal 2 dpsers, but not 3. Therefore making focus-fire an actual strategic plan of attack, and necessary. That was what separated good premades from bad ones back in the days when PvP was alive and well.
    Elysian - Guardian Rogue and Cleric - Retired veteran from @Briarcliff and @Seastone.

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  10. #10
    Telaran Cal_KC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuRSiiVe View Post
    I regarded myself as a very top tier healer back in vanilla leading all the way up to 1.9, and at that point in time I probably could have kept myself up against 2-3 players. But as of right now, there certainly are certain dps souls that can take out a healer entirely solo. That is broken.

    I think a healer should be able to outheal 2 dpsers, but not 3. Therefore making focus-fire an actual strategic plan of attack, and necessary. That was what separated good premades from bad ones back in the days when PvP was alive and well.
    This is the problem with RIFT. 1 Person wants to negate 2 people which exponentially is compounded. 5 people can negate a whole 15 man team easily.

    HEALING IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
    "I always wanted to play a PvP game where nobody dies." - Rift PvP

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    If you want a true vanilla experience you need a 3+ warden premade stacking eachother with hots and waterjetting everyone to death. Though to be truly authentic you would then need to reduce Eradicates cool down to 0 again to allow some unlucky rogue to be the purge bot trying to stop them.
    Last edited by Stihl; 03-23-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal_KC View Post
    This is the problem with RIFT. 1 Person wants to negate 2 people which exponentially is compounded. 5 people can negate a whole 15 man team easily.

    HEALING IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
    The lower level brackets was where I was playing when I made that comment, and now that I am in 40-49 I'm finding the exact opposite. In those lower level brackets burst damage > healing potential by far, but in this higher bracket it feels like it's borderline impossible to kill anyone.

    Vastly different game.
    Elysian - Guardian Rogue and Cleric - Retired veteran from @Briarcliff and @Seastone.

    Starting again as Elysian@Vigil. Defiant Cleric.

    <Vinco Bellum>

  13. #13
    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    I'm still in the 20-29 bracket and it's totally unpredictable. Some matches I feel useful and helpful but other matches I feel like people can't stay alive for more than a couple seconds and sometimes not even long enough for me to get off one heal. I don't know what souls people are running that does that but it's insane.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuRSiiVe View Post
    The lower level brackets was where I was playing when I made that comment, and now that I am in 40-49 I'm finding the exact opposite. In those lower level brackets burst damage > healing potential by far, but in this higher bracket it feels like it's borderline impossible to kill anyone.

    Vastly different game.


    ^^ THIS!

    As soon as you ding 40, you'll noticed 99% of the warfronts have single digit deaths. People just don't die. I think it could use another say 66% heal nerf above level 40 and still be fine. I'm not sure what it is honestly, could be a combination of giant insta heals, save cooldowns, other tools etc. But people are going from 20% to full+ shielded in 1-2 GCDs.

    This needs fixing ASAP!
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  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Back in the old days i used to play with a warrior who had this nice AOE 50% healing reduction debuff, is this not possible this days ?

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