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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Sentinel Wrathful Exuberance: Disabled on Prime:Vigil, pending tuning.

  1. #31
    Shadowlander Ting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gox View Post
    Interesting. We all pretty much know turning things on/off is the only way to "balance" prime atm. Though it sounds like they are working on a way to possibly make prime soul changes that do not affect live. Its obvious they do not have the ability yet and it may still not be possible with their resources but it sounds like Trion is putting energy into finding a way to make more detail changes to just the prime game. We will see if they are successful but i am not holding my breathe there is an easy/cheap way to separate prime balance from live. My guess is the population will leave faster than they can make the game at least playable at level cap and then the will not be able to justify the resources to make prime what it could be. Hopefully im wrong but sadly if the experience stays the same and as much as i like the 50s rift i can't see myself and others like me staying.

    Hopefully they can figure something out though now it makes sense why leveling was buffed soo much, they needed to keep players off the level cap for as long as possible.
    They pretty much are doing the exact same things Daybreak did with TLE, that population quit within 3 months because they couldn't properly tune skills, equipment and encounters.

  2. #32
    General of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Hello Sentinel fans...

    Rationale: Sentinel is a healing spec and should not be the best DPS in the game.

    Feedback is welcome!
    Brasse

    Brasse where is your tact on this one! I don't have to read the replies, I'm sure they've said this enough! You wouldn't say this if you knew full well that Warriors have been relying on their healing spec for the last 6 months to do dps on Live! Play the end game please so you know what we're suffering!
    Last edited by Refuge; 03-27-2018 at 10:06 PM.
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  3. #33
    Prophet of Telara Aranka's Avatar
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    many things have been going on with souls, roles and soultrees since the early launch in 2011.

    a bit black&white, but at the start, roles were more split..

    you went cleric, you basically were supposed to (tank)heal or tank.

    you went warrior, you were basically chosing a tank class

    mage for dps/support

    rogue for dps/support and kite tanking.

    As time passed, players wanted more options.. so the move towards "every calling must be able to do every role" set in.. this required more balancing.. in the lower level brackets, dps became a thing.. if a zerg could do enough damage, a tank was not that necessary (for open world anyways).. so the dps abilities were moved higher in the soul trees.

    Differences between old and new expansions.. The main differences in the gear from cap to new tier were found in armor and hit. The soul trees and PA added to the stats.

    When PA became accountwide for the servers (not cross-server) a lot of players got a boost to their stats from that. It favored people playing alts.

    Any balancing attempts had to work with input from several sources.. not just the soultrees or abilities, but also the differences from PA levels between players, buffs used, gear used..

    The intention of having a balance in which all players at the same level can do damage between a minimum and a maximum became difficult.. Due to different situations the min/max
    has a wide range. Mentoring and sidekicking added to that.

    The more options you have influencing the numbers, the more difficult the balancing becomes.

    Disabling one option is a way to investigate its influence in multiple situations.. Maybe not the way players would like, but it can give an insight in the numbers and how to eventually change the numbers.. perhaps not for the disabled ability,, but a compensation through another ability, that would have a bigger impact on prime than it would have on live and can be fine-tuned for prime without disturbing much on live.

    As for the ' could this all have been prevented' yes and no. Some things could have been prevented, but require a rather good knowledge of the game.. knowledge you get get from playing the game, knowing about all the changes, class/combat insight.. from early start till now.
    That's a lot of info and insight.. and maybe not available to the current dev team. That knowledge is found in the playerbase. And that playerbase is partially subjective in what they would like to see, are willing to share or simply can explain to somebody who is not that experienced at playing the game.

    So yes, things could have been prevented, if the available info out there had been available to the devs and if they could/would have used that information.
    But shifting that information to what's important enough to keep and what can be put aside is a lot of work and requires that specific insight.

    If at any point something is missing in the information given, gotten, understood and/or estimated at value, you will run into issues keeping you from preventing things and keeping you from meeting the expectations.

    We have been on Prime for 3 weeks now, seen several changes/fixes already.. it's still early.. let's just give them a chance to do their job and hope for the best.
    Last edited by Aranka; 03-28-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  4. #34
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    Agree that the info out there publicly isn't quite enough to do balancing, unless I've missed some sheets or data. I looked into simulating Prime combat in a spreadsheet and didn't find a lot of data on spell co-efficients (would like to work out my own stat weights).

    How much does AP and SP affect damage? It should be easy to figure out by equipping / removing gear and comparing tooltip dmg values, but I haven't done that yet for every mage ability. I know others have though, I think there was a full warrior sheet by Jotunn maybe?

    Back on the topic of Rift Prime balancing: the devs should have internal sim sheets and/or software. Change a + or - percent modifier on abilities, sim. An objective developer can then repeat this process until they have the intended results.
    Last edited by Artifa; 03-28-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Angry

    As a follow-up, let me give my opinion on MMO class balance with a more business oriented conclusion.

    Many players quit MMOs because the game does not live up to their expectations. We expect to be able to log in and progress our characters in meaningful ways. We want to enjoy healthy competition amongst our friends, other guilds and other players. There cannot be disjointed or broken item progression systems and bad class balance to achieve this goal.

    I've heard players of all 4 classes all say at some point in Rift Primes life that if they don't find a better spec for X role, or Trion doesnt balance their own classes' Y ability, or another classes Z (etc), that the game no longer will have any appeal to them because the character they spent 6 days played on is non functional.

    So please fix it. Ask those of us that want to help for help if you need it. This is not a criticism of mods/devs. I want my friends and other good players to keep playing, but they won't if the balance is so far off. The game will lose many players.
    Last edited by Artifa; 03-28-2018 at 09:33 AM.
    Climate
    50 Mage - Virgil

  6. #36
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    This is something that should have been dealt with LONG before you launched this server. The number one thing that drives people away is when you TAKE away power or something that was fun. Trion, I was around in the beginning, I was a beta tester and I played until around Hammerknell, I came back hoping things were better. I'm not so sure. I am still having fun but you have got to stop TAKING and DISABLING abilities, you will lose people faster than ever if you continue down this road. Your customer service skills are seriously lacking and it's no wonder that your game was nearly dead prior to Prime.

  7. #37
    Gox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junkyard View Post
    This is something that should have been dealt with LONG before you launched this server. The number one thing that drives people away is when you TAKE away power or something that was fun. Trion, I was around in the beginning, I was a beta tester and I played until around Hammerknell, I came back hoping things were better. I'm not so sure. I am still having fun but you have got to stop TAKING and DISABLING abilities, you will lose people faster than ever if you continue down this road. Your customer service skills are seriously lacking and it's no wonder that your game was nearly dead prior to Prime.


    Yeah but tbh i was thrilled when i saw Sab got nerfed as i think it is always the least fun spec even back in the 2 OP iterations in 2011. I was like great we may not be top dps i wont have to play sab... then it turns out even after the giant nerf Sab is still #1 rogue dps so now we are stuck still playing a crappy version of a spec that misses the people who want to be a melee rogue and misses the people who want to be an archer rogue.

    It is really funny how the classes that dont really fit in with the entire rift class fantasy tend to be the strongest ones.

  8. #38
    Soulwalker
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    You just need to do 1 dj or 2 or few bg after lvl40 to see that souls are not balanced what so ever on prime. On live servers, try to start anew with a random main soul, you are likely to hit a walll while doing quests after lvl60.

  9. #39
    Shadowlander
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    This whole thread seems overly dramatic. I main sentinal and the ability was busted. Get over it.
    Last edited by Seathasky; 03-29-2018 at 03:39 PM.

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