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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Expert Loot Changes

  1.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Shiny Ball of Doomy Doom Tacitus's Avatar
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    Default Expert Loot Changes

    Expert dungeon rewards and gear are undergoing some revisions, so here is an overview of what is changing (and why).

    1) Expert bosses will no longer drop random "concat" items (though items with variable stats). They will now drop specific items that have long been traditionally associated with those bosses. This loot will still be personalized to your class, and require IRCs after your "free" rolls each day are consumed. Non-Expert dungeons will still use concat gear rewards (for now).

    2) The number of free Personal Loot rolls for each Expert boss each day is increasing before the needs for IRCs kicks in. The drop rate for gear per personal loot roll will also increase.. IRCs will no longer be needed in non-Expert dungeons.

    3) The Expert quality gear that was previously on the Expert vendors has been or is going to be removed. Those items were the original boss drops and are returning to the bosses from whence they came.

    4) Some expert items are seeing some stat adjustments. In the many years since Rift launched, the game saw adjustments to how many stats functioned corresponding changes to how much each stat was valued in an item's "budget". Because of this, many items ended up having a current allocation of stats much lower than they should have. These items have had their stat values increased to the full value of their stat budget. Basically, a number of Expert items will just get a bit better.


    We know there are questions, so here are some answers...

    Why is this change being done?
    One of the first bits of Prime itemization feedback from day 1 was that gear drops from bosses felt too "generic". Many players also pointed out that it made the different bosses not matter so much if all bosses could drop the same random items. Simply put, it was too much homogenization. So we have been working behind the scenes to get back the variety of play experiences and rewards while still maintaining the ability to have loot be personalized to your class.


    But why now?
    Because Prime is still ongoing, the current loot is not the end of the game. Eventually Storm Legion will raise the level cap and introduce a new tier of Experts and their loot. We have been experimenting ways to make all of that feel better, and one way to accomplish that is to bring some of the changes online now and see the effects of the changes in an active play environment as opposed to a sterile test one.


    What other changes might come like this?
    We have some various ideas we are currently working on. One is the idea of keeping the idea of gear rewards scaled to your level (something the "generic concats" were intended to address), but are still specific items from specific bosses with the specific stat distribution that you would expect from the original versions of those items. This idea takes more work to implement than simple concats, but we believe it will feel a lot better and is a worthwhile investment of time. This change is still a ways out, as it affects leveling items as opposed to level cap items.

    More immediately, we know some people are concerned about being the victims of bad luck and have even cited incidences of going long periods of time without ever getting a gear drop. We are testing new tech that would allow us to force a gear reward result after a certain number of rolls without gear. In doing so, a safety net would be in place to ensure no one could be the victim of consistently terrible luck.


    What about the Jewelry vendor that was supposed to come back for 1 more week?
    Unfortunately, the jewelry vendor was mugged by the patch build process and was not able to rejoin the other gear merchants. There is no plan for it to return at this point as by the time the next patch hits, the expert items will once again be dropping from their original bosses.


    So there is a round up of change announcements and answers to frequently asked questions.
    Rift Team Designer
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    "Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash, and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it what so ever."

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Nogardgib's Avatar
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    So again, Trion makes the mistake and we pay for it. Just love how that helps your paying customer none.
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  3. #3
    Plane Touched omgitslos's Avatar
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    On face value, Iím kind of disappointed. It feels like a step backwards. Especially not putting the rings and trinkets in for people who may have been working towards them only to have them suddenly and without warning removed.

    But, I appreciate the communication with this matter.
    Hold fast and we will watch the flames burn auburn on the mountain side

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus;5352843
    [B
    But why now?[/B]
    Because Prime is still ongoing, the current loot is not the end of the game. Eventually Storm Legion will raise the level cap and introduce a new tier of Experts and their loot. We have been experimenting ways to make all of that feel better, and one way to accomplish that is to bring some of the changes online now and see the effects of the changes in an active play environment as opposed to a sterile test one.
    Poorly thought out. Poorly done. Poor timing.

    This places an impediment for those that still need to gear up. In fact it is a huge roadblock to get the pieces you need. If this was the original method when Prime started, that would be fine since people would still be doing experts. So many people have finished experts already because of the current purchase options. It will take even a longer time to get geared assuming you can get to the boss without being equipped for it. That doesn't even count the time extension with the RNG.

    How is that supposed to "feel better"?

    Being able to get currency until you hit that dps or healing boss check allows you to get equipment you need without getting through those tough bosses first.

    At this point, this leaves those that need to gear up a few choices:
    - Sneak into raids that you are not equipped for and hope people will carry you.
    - Keep slogging away with experts, when you can get them, while it being unlikely you'll be able to raid much if at all prior to the next expansion.
    - Quit since progression for many comes to a halt.

    How is that supposed to "feel better"?

    I'm thinking option 3 is the most likely.
    Last edited by Porck; 04-27-2018 at 04:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    More immediately, we know some people are concerned about being the victims of bad luck and have even cited incidences of going long periods of time without ever getting a gear drop. We are testing new tech that would allow us to force a gear reward result after a certain number of rolls without gear. In doing so, a safety net would be in place to ensure no one could be the victim of consistently terrible luck.
    Is this a change that will also be carrying over to live too?

    (70) Holyroller | (70) Kelten | (70) Irohh | (70) Hoehenheim | (70)Avattar@Deepwood

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Thank you for the explanation, Tacitus. It's great to know the thought process behind the changes.

    Do you think anything could be done to help the second wave of players, stragglers, late-comers or those that may feel left behind or locked out of content by these changes? Also maybe those thinking of leveling an alt or having 2 playable characters at max level?

    The demise of pre-50 LFD and PVP queues and the amount of experience and currencies needed to approach raid readiness is a daunting hurdle. In my opinion, good game design involves a bit of catch-up mechanics to help late-comers shorten the time investment to meet current content requirements. Those of us pushing hard early on have had many advantages that are no longer available, and with that in mind, some small adjustments could help others get to where we are quicker without trivializing our time investment or the character advancement process a whole.

    This might be things like:
    • the normal LFD queue daily bonus suggestion thread by Clowd
    • a look at and potentially reducing the currency cost and mark cost for purchase of souls, vendor gears, and lesser essences both now (at the 2 month mark) and more over time as more content unlocks
    • another look at at /played time-to-level from 40 to 50, if that is something that can be looked at

    Thanks again
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-27-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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  7. #7
    Telaran AsteroidX's Avatar
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    One of the bigger problems I see here is that the rings and trinkets are not yet dropping from dungeon bosses nor can they be purchased from the expert vendor. I

    If my reading comprehension and dungeon runs are correct it is a zero sum position to be sitting in as a player..

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Can you also tell me where the tank equipment for the Mages is dropping?
    It was never intended in the original that this soul is present in the Lvl area. So far there is not really anything for this soul. What is available is only part of the set.
    No magetank essences.
    No magetank weapons.
    No magetank rings.
    No Magettank belt at the Raidvendor.
    No recipes at the outfitter, artificer, weaponsmith or runecrafter

    How should we get our eqipment together if you do not put any into the game? This new system does not really make it easy for us.

    ps.:
    Thank you that there is any information and we will not be surprised.
    Last edited by Aijate; 04-27-2018 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    Thank you for coming and giving a clear explanation of what was done and why. That's an example of good communication that I'd like to see more of.

    That said, I wish Trion's goals were not to allow it to be easy for the first people to get there and then make it grindy and unpleasant for anyone who took more than a few days/a week to reach the point of being able to do certain content. It certainly feels as though the first people to reach 50 got a significantly easier experience with gear than the one we currently have. This is causing me to be a little less willing to experience content -- how is it fair that I have to spend more time, run more dungeons, spend more currency, and farm more IRCs than someone who was able to do it 2 weeks ago? I hope your fixes make it just as easy now, just different.
    Iphigeneia // Jehan // Coriolana // Cytrine@Faeblight
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  10. #10
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    I do like the idea of these changes in theory, though it would have been ideal if it was implemented at the start of the server. As long as this is the plan for future expansions, I am all for it. There is still, however, real concern as this might make it more difficult for new players to catch up. Hopefully the increased drop rate will counteract this issue.

    I also believe that it is time to take a serious look at the rewards for random expert/normal dungeons. If the rewards were increased, say 300-500 void stones per random, it would incentivize players who no longer need experts to run them. This will prevent the LFD tool from stagnating and making it harder for new players to find groups. In the live game, it was always worth it to do expert dungeons, even after being raid geared. This should also be the case on prime.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Kind of feels like you guys are using this server as your dev environment instead of treating paying players respectfully and fairly.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Ting's Avatar
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    Positive changes. TY for the communication. Better system overall.


  13. #13
    Shadowlander Torankusu's Avatar
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    So why are essences still set at the post-SL/F2P prices? At 200 void stones per zone event, you have to complete 50 to get one vendor essence. I'd peg the zone event completion average at 1.5 per hour with the rate that invasions are currently spawning on Prime, but let's be generous and say it's 2 -- that's be 25 hours of gameplay if all you do is zone events. And there's usually significant downtime between (like right now, as I type this).

    Expert bosses only give 60, if they drop at all, so you'd have to win the loot lottery on 167 expert boss kills to purchase a single vendor lesser.

    Raid Rifts, meanwhile, have for some reason not been included in the personal loot system, so farming those is the usual "all effort, no reward" grind-fest that represents the worst of gear progression.

    At level 50 cap on Live, you got 5-10 Inscribed Sourcestone from completing a high-level zone event, and essences cost 50. It was possible to grind out an entire source machine (say, for Resists, as we had to in some of the raids) in a week without an absurd amount of effort. Now it takes that long for a single essence. It's ridiculous.

    And worse, because different raid roles require different source machines, it's an insurmountable barrier to the core appeal of RIft's soul system: switching raid comp on the fly to meet a challenge.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Scourge's Avatar
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    Please consider adding IRC charges to the reward for daily normal dungeon and daily expert dungeon. There is very little incentive for people to run those dungeons currently, which is going to inflate the time for gearing up to raid-ready greatly.
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  15. #15
    Telaran
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    In general I'm seeing all this as a positive change. I was highly disappointed with all bosses having same loot tables. While these changes will affect players who are just now gearing it is nothing surprising, when lots of players already are raid ready this always happens and is nothing to complain about as you still have gear merchant.

    I also have to agree with the opinion that essences from rift reputation vendors need to be looked at. Having the price at 10k/essence is too much and requires far more farming than it should on a increased progression server.

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