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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: OFFICIAL: Prime Sliver feedback thread [Drowned Halls, Gilded Prophecy]

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Default OFFICIAL: Prime Sliver feedback thread [Drowned Halls, Gilded Prophecy]

    For REALZ this time, The Slivers are open!
    Thank you all for your patience as we fixed the LFR issue and reset the achievements.
    Good luck out there!

    GSB:
    One question on all of our minds... as Greenscale's blight is now tentatively set for May 2, is this a fair span of time to allow people to gear up? Should we push to May 9?
    While we realize that this is almost entirely a matter of perception and opinion, we need that to go with our hard, cold data pulls!
    Thank you!

    Drowned Halls:
    Feel, fun, itemization, challenge level.

    Gilded Prophecy:
    Feel, fun, itemization, challenge level.

    Brasse
    Last edited by TrionBrasse; 04-20-2018 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched omgitslos's Avatar
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    Default A semi-casual opinion

    With how gearing works, I donít think waiting another week for GSB would make a difference. All the gear from Raid Rifts and 10mans are of the same tier. Aside from some minor min/max, no difference.

    I havenít dont Gilded Prophecy so I canít speak for it.

    Drowned Halls:

    DPS requirement is way too high. These raids are meant to be the next step from expert gear? There really is no way the average someone who is in fresh dungeon gear is meeting the minimum requirements to queue can realistically meet some of these DPS checks. Especially if we are working with a 2 tank, 2 healer, 1 support make up.

    The boss and mechanic damage is way too low. As a FK/Chloro Iím yawning while healing these. Heck, I saw a video where a solo healer forgot to put on LGV! But, in order to meet these DPS checks, you gotta do it this way.

    The meta is strong. Sabs are far too strong in ST and their natural AOE is ridiculous. BM being needed because they are the most efficient Support (Spotters Call and Coda of Jeopardy? Are def broken). Stacking Runeshapers due to a bug with Rune of Vulnerability. I am sure people will find ways to circumvent these particular methods, but really, why would you? Itís so damn efficient. Many things need to be fixed when it comes to souls. Fixing these things can really add some variety and fun to the raids.

    Iím 85% sure all these can be applied to Gilded Prophecy. As it stands, while Iím happy to have something new and shiny, itís not the most fun.

    Tl;dr: Not enough mechanic/boss damage. DPS checks too high for standard comps.
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  3. #3
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    Default Feedback

    In regards the feedback, I have only done Drowned Halls. In the raid, 2 things are readily apparent: 1) boss mechanics are undertuned, requiring little to no heals and 2) boss health numbers are scaled too high.

    I remember in vanilla that many of the mechanics were death sentences if not done properly but here you can almost completely ignore them.

    As for the boss health, the dps a raid must do to beat a boss before enrage is more than most people can do. In my multiple groups, I have never killed the 1st boss without having to kite him during enrage and every group has called it after the 3rd boss, not even attempting the final boss due to the dps required to kill.

    I know that the loot farming/ lockout has been a focus in the last days, but my thoughts would prefer to be able just to clear a raid regardless if I got no loot. As devs, you guys have a lot on your plate, but I hope we can get some info on any potential balance change to the raid bosses, making them still difficult but not near impossible for the majority of players.

  4. #4
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    From what I've done and what I have heard, I agree with what the others above have posted. The tight tuning on dps checks only allows sabs/mages/runeshapers as dps and forces 1 tank / 1 heal / 1 supp / 7 dps.

    So I think a very good approach for fixing DH / GP over the next few weeks would be:

    1. Decide what composition of roles that these raids are intended to be completed with and make adjustments to match that. The LFR suggests 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 5 dps and 1 suppport. I think every boss in both zones is unkillable with that composition doing their maximum damage potential (feel free to prove me wrong). The enrage timers are not in line with the comp suggested by LFR menu.
    2. Adjust soul balance to allow more than 1 dps spec to be viable per class. This has over-arching implications, but with a target maximum dps amount in mind, you can get close to whatever you want the final dps total to be (eg. the new cookie cutter builds for each soul)
    3. The intended target dps from the big balance pass in #2 will give you the info needed to adjust the boss health and enrage timers to hopefully make some of them pug friendly and, possibly, keep the last boss a nice challenge.
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-20-2018 at 02:54 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Also maybe i'm a dummy but we haven't found a way to reliably enter / leave the raid, like when you add a new person to raid if someone leaves.

    We have resorted to having someone in the raid do a complete log-out, wait the 20 sec for character to fully exit the game world, then log back in. This prompts the new added member with the "your group entered instance! Join? yes / no" prompt.

    Would be nice to have a below map thingie like in instances to right click and leave/enter instance.
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-20-2018 at 03:11 PM.
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  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    For REALZ this time, The Slivers are open!
    Thank you all for your patience as we fixed the LFR issue and reset the achievements.
    Good luck out there!
    Well, you guys just resetted achievements and failed to reset firsts which is actually good! Hope you will not try to reset them again, even with resets only 2 guilds cleared both raids again which are the ones cleared before your resets so it was actually unneeded to do such stuff..

    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    GSB:
    One question on all of our minds... as Greenscale's blight is now tentatively set for May 2, is this a fair span of time to allow people to gear up? Should we push to May 9?
    While we realize that this is almost entirely a matter of perception and opinion, we need that to go with our hard, cold data pulls!
    Thank you!
    Well considering you guys are already forcing people to slow on gearing with IRC changes which is actually absurd, you don't have to delay it another week, it was supposedly coming 25th of april then you already changed it to 2nd of may and now asking for 9th of may. I thought this stuff was internally tested and was ready before prime even started.

    IRC changes are really unneeded as well, considering we have cap of 15 and full clearing both raids after 2 free runs asking you to 16 charges, you basically force people to grind IRCs.

    Now it also explains support coming for zone event webapi, because now people really need to track zone events, if they are alttabbed or afking since out of farming 10mans they mostly done with game, so you give us a chance to track them!

    Now I know some people will come and tell me but dude you can get IRCs from crafting dailies too! Well mastered professions are getting same amount of IRC from 0 point professions and they cost way too much for it, not to mention you can drop that 0 point professions and do more dailies than maxed professions with like very very low amount of source/mats used.

    It's also not fun to force people farming IRCs, even if you are going to do it at least increase the cap so we can farm and store them, even with it gear required for GSB already farmed on raid rifts and some expert items or crafted item will be hardly replaced, only real requirement is perfect setup with non derp people.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Drowned Halls:
    Feel, fun, itemization, challenge level.
    It is not bad but not fun and only real challenge is last boss herself, you must fix debuff on seaspawn because its stacking with secret prime debuff or modifiers causing tanks to not do any damage on them, even cleric tanks or mage tanks losing aggro on that ones. You must really increase drop chances, total amount of bosses I killed is 46 now and only got 2 usable drops and most of this runs prior to IRC change.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Gilded Prophecy:
    Feel, fun, itemization, challenge level.

    Brasse
    Same goes for here, only 3rd boss is challenging here because of the buffs coming from crystals actually not very well scaling on it, making it very tight dps check, it is fun but not what used to be for vanilla raiding, both raids needs a bit scaling on raid and tank damage because right now you can easily avoid most mechanics and heal thru them, but as we know Trion's policy with raiding they are not making massive nerfs or buffs on encounters which are released to making them fair for all players.


    So for both raids only change needs to be done is changing HP multiplier of bosses compared to live, currently it's around 3.875x so making it around 3.625x would make it clearable more than 2 guilds on prime, considering all bosses give same tier gear and most DH ones are actually best-in-slot for this tier but please stop delaying and even if you need some tests ask for your players, I'm so tired to test stuff on actual server instead of PTS.

    Nowadays some people I know from old times calling prime as "expriment", hope you can understand what they mean.
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  7. #7
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    GSB: I believe a hardcore player can gear from to full expert gear in as little as 3 days. It took me about 5-6 days to get full expert geared after hitting level 50. My personal opinion is if it takes only 3-6 days to gear up as soon you hit level 50, then May 2nd is enough time to let people get geared.

    TL;DR: Stick to May 2nd

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Clearly a challenge.
    As a healer, first and second boss DH are a joke, even with expert gear.
    3 Boss, mechanics, too many dead, but that's not Trion's problem.

    With the drops from the RR including essences, the first two bosses in DH are feasible. As Pyro, I'm missing the damage, I have to say.
    Well, some specs do not necessarily need that, MA or Sab and Runeshapers.
    I do not play MA, I am Mage and no bunny who jumps through the area and if you are unlucky still wild pulled. Just to collect the carrots which are from me or not.

    With these drops also the first in GP and so on.

    Healer sight.
    First GP well possible but you have something to do. I find it good.
    Second Boss GP, follow mechanics make life easier for healers ^^.
    Only with Expertgear not feasible, the player would tip over too fast.

    We played everything with one healer because otherwise we would miss the damage or have partly missed. If not all have said Specs or even a warrior is more time except tank and BM. Even there, the above-mentioned specs are again clearly preferred. For the rest not feasible.
    You have to exaggerate denfinetively. Who does not, does not accomplish these inis and has nothing to look for in it.
    Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way or does not have the patience to get it all. This makes entering the raids via the LFR pure gambling.

    Our guild has a little problem there.
    Too many tanks and healers, but hardly any DD's.
    Only a few people want to play the same spec over and over again.
    Unfortunately, roll flexibility is currently approaching zero.
    With 3 healers and tank I fit in perfectly, but as far as damage is concerned, the choice is very limited for these inis.
    This reduces the fun considerably.
    Last edited by Aijate; 04-20-2018 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #9
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    Another idea i just had.

    Void stone and planarite generation seem to be a hot topic for many players. I have played heavily since launch and still haven't accumulated 20k voidstones i want to get 2 epic lessers off the vendor (but I have bought all needed expert vendor gear + other stuff, so I've earned way more than 20k total)

    Why not have raid boss kills award a moderate amount of void stones and/or planarite or another small reward when a item loot roll does not succeed?

    In experts, if your loot roll fails, you get void stones or a reputation sigil. Why not continue that same set-up through raids, where you can

    1. Win (an item)
    2. Still "Win," just less (void stones) or
    3. Still get something even if the value of it is very little

    In addition to this you still are generating marks at whatever pace is deemed appropriate for the content to last as long as it is expected to last.
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-20-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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  10. #10
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    The LFR requirement states that you should que for these raid with 2 tanks, 2 healers, 1 sup and 5 dps. I dare wager my entire yearly wage on the fact that you cannot complete any of of the raids with such a setup, in their current state.

    Generally speaking the overall feel for both Raids (having completed 2/4 GP and 3/4 DH) is that the mechanics of the bosses are not punishing but the hardcore DPS requirements are the only roadblocks for progression- Tight dps checks can be a fun mechanic, however, if it is the only mechanic that matters for every boss you encounter it quickly reminds you of how unbalanced multiple DPS soul combinations are.

    Reducing the HP and DPS requirements of bosses drastically whilst making raid mechanics more punishing is what should be aimed at.

    Prime scaling seems to also itnerfere with crucial boss mechanics, sch as on GP third boss where the damage buff from the chrystals is not working correctly alongside the debuff from the Seawater add on the last boss in Drowned Halls.

    If pushing GSB by 1 week would mean that you guys could balance souls and ensure that the raid is challenging mechanically and not challenging as a dps check, then I would be totally fine with prolonging the opening, otherwise, I strongly disagree with the extension of the release date.
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I wanted to put a P.s under my post but good.
    Some were faster in the description of the mechanics.

    Yeah, you're gonna nerf those two raids someday. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!
    Make it moderate. Not the Ini by 20%, so one by 80% and the rest for the average spread to the other bosses.
    Please, every boss if necessary only by a few percent, if possible below 10%. Below 5% would be better. It would be really great if you really need the mechanics, not just as a nice idea at the boss. As with the T1 Experts, where mechanics are just nice graphics effects.

    However, if you want to keep the DPS check bosses, you can save any development on the mechanics in the future. Then we do not need any more balancing a single OP DPS soul is really enough for all Inis and Raids.
    Last edited by Aijate; 04-20-2018 at 06:44 PM.

  12. #12
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    So far my experience with DH has been:
    DPS checks are quite high for the enrage timers unless you're running a meta setup and BM as your support. There is seriously no way you're doing this unless you have MAs, Runeshapers, and sabs. I've seen one warrior do dps as a paragon actually meet the dps check so far. On the other end of things, healing is a joke right now. The trash is harder to heal through than the bosses. Mechanics can mostly be ignored but your DPS better hit the mark or you're all dead! The fact that the queue says "2 tanks 2 healers 1 support" is a total farce for DH. If you go with that setup you're never gonna meet those DPS checks with an average group.

    Also there are "speedrun" achievements for these 10mans that are laughably impossible to do currently. Defeat Assault Commander Jorb in 3 minutes? Good luck lol. Even with a BM who pulls 1.2k dps + 7 sabs pulling 3k single target you still would not be able to do this. That's ~22k dps for the party, you must meet ~30k dps for the party to do this in under 3 minutes. That's just not even remotely possible right now to my knowledge. From the chair I'm sitting in, either you intended the players come back and do this achievement later after SL releases or something is wrong with tuning.

    Something clearly needs to be done either about boss health, enrage timers, or soul balance to make some more options viable. If you're not running the meta setups you're not clearing these bosses for the most part. That's just been my experience so far.

    Honestly it would be great to play warlock, pyro, necromancer, harbinger, ANYTHING other than MA at this point for a dps role, but it's just not viable. The only thing that gets close to MA is pyro specs and heavy elementalist. Variety is the spice of life and unfortunately the 10man experience has made me feel locked into playing one build. Anything else and I'm just trolling my group (with maybe SC to clear trash for laughs). Luckily Mage can actually play tank and healer effectively so I'll at least have those to keep me interested.

    Obviously the problem with lowering boss health/enrage timers is that it will trivialize the content for those that DO decide to play with these meta setups. This means the actual answer is: you're gonna have to put in some serious time to fix soul balance if you want to give players some options right now. Either that or be okay with top tier players complaining your raids are "super easy" with a meta setup.

    In any case, I know if I have to spend another month just MAing it up on my mage I'm going to unsub. Straight up that's where I'm at right now. I hope you'll take this feedback seriously and to heart. Put in the resources to make more souls viable or at least show me you care about this project more than stringing us along for our sub dollars. Hopefully this feedback has been helpful.
    Last edited by ironstrix; 04-20-2018 at 08:32 PM.
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  13. #13
    RIFT Community Ambassador Golden's Avatar
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    The HP of the bosses in both silvers is too high for the intended difficulty. Unless you want raids to only accept 3 dps builds total (sab, rune, and ma) and use 7 of the 10 slots for those, of which if you use runeshapers, at least 2 of them.
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  14. #14
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    Foreword
    I remember progging through these Slivers during vanilla. The Prime iteration is quite different. Without knowing what the ST DPS and AoE dps targets are, it's difficult to provide good feedback on how to specifically tune boss HP. I am assuming that the target ST DPS lies close to what Runeshapers/MA/Sab is currently pulling and that all callings will have multiple options to achieve this target in the near future. Otherwise there is absolutely zero point in balancing the raid around LFR Pugs because they can't/won't/don't want to play the single meta soul available to them. And so the whole system breaks down unless all the bosses are tuned to be killable by monkeys with typewriters.

    Having killed both raids during vanilla and both raids twice on Prime, I will confidently say that vanilla was more challenging and by extension, fun, but Prime doesn't have to emulate the exact vanilla experience. It's ok to not be a carbon copy of vanilla, but it still needs to feel engaging and fun.

    On Balancing Prime Raids
    If the dev team wants the LFR composition (2 tanks, 2 heals, 5 dps, 1 support) to be viable in Slivers, then dramatic changes need to happen. My feedback is based on how to allow PUGs to kill bosses in LFR while still making the encounters fun for veteran players. Given that it will be possible to farm the easier bosses for marks to purchase BiS, there is no harm in making the later bosses hard to give players something to do while we wait for the next tier of raids. This is a good opportunity to give your raiding base a nice carrot to chase that doesn't involve artificially extending the life of the content.

    Assumptions About Groups and DPS
    2 Tanks, 2 Heals, 5 DPS, 1 Support.
    ST dps for each member in a raid with consumables is 1800 dps.
    ST dps will swap to AoE/cleave specs as needed for fights.
    Healers will swap between ST and AoE specs as needed for fights.
    Tanks are playing full mitigation spec. No healer/support/dps hybrids.
    The raid is comprised mainly of players randomly matched with each other via the LFR tool, with only 1 or 2 premades of 2-3 members each.
    I will refer to these assumptions as "LFR Comp".
    1/1/8/1 groups I will refer to as "Prime Comp". This mainly means 10 man premades, but also includes LFR Comps that have members willing to switch roles.


    Drowned Halls
    Assault Commander Jorb
    Feel: 2/10. Jorb is a mechanical snore, which is ok as an entry boss to a raid. He functions as a raid dummy with some light mechanics that allows groups to gauge if their raid DPS will be adequate for later bosses. Jorb currently lacks any element of danger, which he needs to remain interesting.

    Fun: 2/10. Mindnumbing. Quite frustrating to be chain pulled by Stand At Attention multiple times a row with no recourse, but I don't think it's something that needs to be changed. Tanking is horrifically boring since the cleave from Stand At Attention only does half of a non-tank's HP. Instead of spinning/moving the boss after he pulls someone in, non-tanks can eat the cleave and then run away after their root wears off. Effectively, there is no need for anyone to do any mechanic at all on this fight. Healers cleansing You Can't Hide boosts raid DPS, but the extra DPS isn't going to make or break the DPS check.

    Itemization: 6/10. Boss HP is low for Prime Comp, but is in a good spot for LFR Comp. Currently he is only a light DPS gear check, and virtually zero heal and tank gear check.

    Challenge: 1/10 It's almost impossible to not kill this boss and it's almost impossible to wipe on him. 0.0001/10 for Prime Comp.

    Bugs: No encounter barrier.

    Recommendations: Double all boss damage. Double the cleave damage again for a total of 4x current damage. Non-tanks need to have pretty much no way to survive the mechanic and tanks/healers need a reason to use any sort of cooldown during the fight, especially since there are 2 heals in LFR Comp. This guy is supposed to be a small gear check and small mechanic check, so there's no harm in getting him even halfway there. Seriously. Buff this poor gator.

    Joloral Ragetide
    Feel: 5/10. Joloral is another DPS check, but he tests for AoE/Cleave which is required for Hydriss. He somewhat accomplishes this. Unfortunately, Joloral is victim of a cheese strat. Rather than have 1 tank hold Joloral and the other tank pick up the adds, a single tank picks up everything and the dps cleave the entire fight. This is different than intended, but ok.

    Fun: 6/10. The silence is horrific considering it can't be cleansed and spreads through the raid, increasing in duration on affected targets when it does. LFR Comp will likely never realize this, which dampens the fun, but that's a player issue. Getting to cleave the whole fight and see big numbers on the meters is pretty fun. Tanks are busy picking up adds periodically and healers may find themselves needing to use cooldowns.

    Itemization: 7/10. With the current cheese strat, the single tank takes a fair amount of damage. This becomes amplified if DPS are unable to cull the adds quickly but it provides a conduit for a strong healer/tank to help carry the group, which is important for LFR Comp.

    Challenge: 5/10. LFR Comp will make this interesting for healers and tanks. Depending on where the group's strength lies, they may need to employ the intended strat. It's a 2/10 for Prime Comp with cheese strat.

    Bugs: None.

    Recommendations: Make the silence cleanable and quicken the time the silence spreads to 3 seconds, or add the mechanic warning sound to the emote like most raid mechanics have.

    Whenever Joloral or a Plated Crippler eats a Ragetide Carbuncle, the Feeding Frenzy buff they gain needs to heal for like 3x more and increase damage by much more. This mechanically means nothing currently as the Plated Cripplers don't hit hard even after feeding on entire groups of Carbuncles.

    Iskaal
    Feel: 8/10. This boss is actually quite close to the vanilla experience while still being engaging on Prime. He is a mechanical awareness check. Some of the damage is undertuned to the point where mechanics are ignored.

    Fun: 7/10. Good mechanics that test players but don't require everyone to be a rockstar. Strong players can carry the brunt of mechanics, facilitating a clear but can't carry completely.

    Itemization: 5/10. Iskaal will be a near-impossible DPS check for LFR Comp. Tanking and Healing is fine in both Comps.

    Challenge: 7/10. Iskaal poses a decent challenge even to Prime Comps. He allows for some deaths, but not too many. Most of the challenge is mechanical.

    Bugs:Whirl of Death damage is only 1000, which is so little that entire raid groups are ignoring the mechanic completely.

    Recommendations: Dropping his HP by 15% will help LFR Comp clear. Most wipes aren't due to DPS anyway, they are due to mechanical failure. Groups that can pass Jorb's ST DPS check and Jolorals AoE DPS check should get to clear this fight so long as they pass the mechanical check. Iskaal's current HP doesn't allow that for LFR Comp though.

    Bumping Whirl of Death damage to 3000 will force players to do the mechanic, but will not cause them to die for failing it briefly due to awareness or because Abyssal Trappers are applying a slow to them. Additionally, bumping up the Whirl of Death damage will make tanks grab Abyssal Trappers, lest the raid get slowed to death. Abyssal Trappers deal very little damage so when Whirl of Death is ignored, they are ignored too and passively cleaved down.

    High Priest Hydriss
    Feel: 6/10. This fight feels like the original, but much harder because of dramatically increased health pools on everything.

    Fun: 7/10. The mechanics of the fight are all intact and create for a fun encounter, but the tuning really detracts from the fun. Groups are forced to run high-cleave specs if they want to beat her, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not normal.

    Itemization: 3/10. Literally impossible for LFR comp to beat her. Hydriss and the Deep One adds have over-inflated HP pools. The tank and heal check is a little undertuned.

    Challenge: 9/10 for Prime Comp. 9000/10 for LFR Comp.

    Bugs: You guys got the one where she could be pulled out of the encounter area :P

    Recommendations: Nerf Hydriss HP by 25% for LFR Comp.

    Nerf Deep One HP by 75% for LFR Comp. Deeps Ones died quickly in vanilla and raids could use the white rings to kill them if they didn't have cleave specs available.

    Nerf hive HP by 15% for LFR Comp.

    Buff Tsunami damage by 2x. Currently it hits like a wet noodle and means nothing in the big picture. This was something that was kinda scary in vanilla and should warrant some kind of reaction from healers.

    Buff Dragon death-DoT by 2x. This is ignored completely and should be a mechanic healers either need to cleanse or heal through.

    Gilded Prophecy
    Anrak the Foul
    Feel: 9/10. Really close to the original with the exception of undertuned healing. Anrak is a light mechanic and dps check due to his adds.

    Fun: 7/10. This is a cool fight for pretty much everyone. Most of the mechanics are handled as intended and are punished appropriately for failing them.

    Itemization: 8/10. LFR Comp and Prime Comp are actually similar for this since it's a 2-tank fight. Boss HP is about right for an entry level boss for LFR Comp.

    Challenge: 3/10. Everything has a such a huge telegraph that it's hard to really mess anything up. Wiping only ever happens if a tank gets hit by Vicious Tail Strike.

    Bugs: No encounter barrier.

    Recommendations: The debuff that the Call of Anrak adds give should be a little more severe. Tanks are currently handling 20+ stacks comfortably which is not intended and will be exacerbated as we get more gear. The convention was to swap at ~5 stacks, which when combined with the pace at which adds applied the stacks, legitimized tank swap timing. As it is now, tank swap timing is overly relaxed because of how much mitigation tanks have from gear.

    Increase Spines of Earth damage by 2x. It is currently incredibly underwhelming. This was a signficant AoE heal check to prepare groups for Uruluuk later. As it is now, any sort of AoE heal from anyone *coughJusticarcough* will cover this.

    Increase Gaze damage by 50%. Currently if a tank intercepts this, it can be ignored completely. This is supposed to be a big ST burst heal check for Thalguur later.

    Guurloth
    Feel: 10/10. Hit the nail on the head compared to vanilla experience. Damage from all sources feels right and those tornados are just as annoying as they were years ago.

    Fun: 9/10. A really well fun iteration of Simon says. The mechanics punish players the right amount and feel good when done correctly.

    Itemization: 7/10. Almost impossible for LFR Comp to meet the dps check. Guurloth has way too much HP. Even Prime Comps will struggle to meet the DPS check. The heal and tank check feels about right.

    Challenge: 8/10. Boss HP aside, LFR Comp and Prime Comp will find the mechanics challenging, but since most of them are personal, this will be easier to complete as players practice them more. Strong healers are important here.

    Bugs: None.

    Recommendations: Increase the damage from "Player will do nothing or you all suffer." mechanic to 4000. This should hurt instead of have people proc it during the entire duration and the raid still lives.

    Increase the proximity damage buff that Guurloth receives from the add, and that the add receives from the secondary add. Currently a single tank can stack all 3 of them and take a Boulder of Destruction, all while being healed by a single healer who is also taking care of the raid. Increasing the buff will force the intended strategy of separating the add from the boss or by having a second tank pick up the add to split damage.

    Thalguur
    Feel: 4/10 The main mechanic is not tuned well, which causes a bunch of balancing problems.

    Fun: 6/10 Crystals aside, it's actually kinda fun. The randomized mechanics keep everyone on their toes.

    Itemization: Healing and Tank damage feels about right. DPS is borked because of how weak the crystals are compared to Thalguur's defense buff.

    Challenge: 10/10. Hardest fight currently because of the DPS check created by it. The mechanics are probably a 4/10.

    Bugs: CRYSTALS ARE NOT PROVIDING CORRECT DAMAGE BUFF. Turns out the crystal buff is providing everything that the tooltip says. I had a chance to run it again and watch as my stats change after picking them up one by one. It seems that Thalguur's resistance buff he gains after each crystal phase is so strong that it makes it feel like the crystals are bugged. Even at 25 crystal stacks, players are doing less damage to him than at the beginning of the fight when they have 0 crystal stacks. Because players are not able to counteract Thalguur's defense buff as the fight goes on, Thalguur is extremely difficult to kill.

    Recommendations: Decrease the damage resistance that Thalguur gains after each crystal phase OR increase the amount of SP/AP gained from the crystals needs to be bumped up to 2x or 3x.

    Make Ground Pound hit 4x as hard. I forgot this was even a mechanic until I read the name just now as it does virtually no damage, even when Thalguur has 4 stacks and players have ~12.

    Uruluuk
    Feel: 5/10 It's like a vanilla-lite version. Still some danger involved and new players will spend time practicing mechanics, but tuning issues needs to be addressed, especially for LFR Comp.

    Fun: 7/10 The mechanics are all still quite fun. The tuning detracts from the enjoyment of the fight though.

    Itemization: 3/10. Way Easier than Guurloth and Thalguur currently in almost every regard.

    Challenge: 6/10. This is supposed to be the culmination of mechanical checks and gear checks, but currently it is only a little of both.

    Bugs: No encounter barrier.

    Skeletons hit for literally almost nothing at all, even when buffed. Smells like a scaling issue of some sort.

    Recommendations: Buff Boss HP by 25%. He has a 10 minute enrage and dies in around 5 minutes to a Prime Comp capable of killing Thalguur.

    Buff Crashing Boulders damage by 25%. It still won't one shot but it will be scarier, especially if groups miss 2 in a row. As a last boss, groups should be punished for missing this mechanic.

    Buff Skeleton damage by 100% or 200%. They are so laughably pathetic right now. Or keep their damage the same but make the buffed ones deal 10x the damage of a currently buff one. Groups are required to have purges anyway and the crown is a huge telegraph for the mechanic.
    Last edited by Scourge; 04-25-2018 at 06:35 AM.
    Focus@Vigil | 50 Mage
    Prime Mage Guide | Twitch.tv

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    So for both raids only change needs to be done is changing HP multiplier of bosses compared to live, currently it's around 3.875x so making it around 3.625x would make it clearable more than 2 guilds on prime, considering all bosses give same tier gear and most DH ones are actually best-in-slot for this tier but please stop delaying and even if you need some tests ask for your players, I'm so tired to test stuff on actual server instead of PTS.
    I feel like it needs to be much lower than 3.625. I also feel like anyone who can clear it at 3.625 can clear it at 3.875.

    I look at achievements and see: Kill Jorb within 3 minutes, Kill Anrak within 3.5 minutes, Clear DH within 30 minutes, Clear GP within 30 minutes. Am I crazy for thinking that the rapid assaults should be at least *somewhat* obtainable? Do you think you guys are even close to clearing GP within 30 minutes?

    I think even for a stacked raid it'd have to get brought down to what, 2.5x for Jorb to die in 3 minutes? I like the challenge of needing to min/max your dps (though not as much as if I had rolled a different calling...) but as others have said around the forums in other posts it kind of falls short when you don't even need 1 full 51 point tank and healer to do the zones let alone 2 of each.
    Buffbat@Vigil - 50 Cleric
    <Disturbance>
    4/4 DH
    4/4 GP

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