+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 50
Like Tree47Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: OFFICIAL: Prime Sliver feedback thread [Drowned Halls, Gilded Prophecy]

  1. #16
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffrat View Post
    I feel like it needs to be much lower than 3.625. I also feel like anyone who can clear it at 3.625 can clear it at 3.875.

    I look at achievements and see: Kill Jorb within 3 minutes, Kill Anrak within 3.5 minutes, Clear DH within 30 minutes, Clear GP within 30 minutes. Am I crazy for thinking that the rapid assaults should be at least *somewhat* obtainable? Do you think you guys are even close to clearing GP within 30 minutes?

    I think even for a stacked raid it'd have to get brought down to what, 2.5x for Jorb to die in 3 minutes? I like the challenge of needing to min/max your dps (though not as much as if I had rolled a different calling...) but as others have said around the forums in other posts it kind of falls short when you don't even need 1 full 51 point tank and healer to do the zones let alone 2 of each.
    Those rapid assault and 3.30 achievements were always doable with full t1 gear ppl having relic weapons even sometimes with T2 gears, 3.875x value is changing some bosses it was value I compared when GSB opened on prime from Duke Latereus' hp but still amount i meant making like almost 10% ish nerf boss hp, other than that all bosses doable even enrage on GP 3rd and DH last bosses, and all classes except warriors easily can pull 2k+ dps.

    Still considering this are introduction raids and should be welcoming new players this values should be rechecked but like I mentioned damage on tanks are joke, I can easily tank 1st boss on GP with 25 to 30stacks of brittle, when this raid released even best geared tanks suffered when they had 5 or more stacks, so it can give you slight idea on tank damage, group damage is also joke, you can basically ignore whirlpool on Isskal or following directives on Guurloth.
    RemoveBuff a simple addon for replacing cancelbuff command.
    Addons updated for 4.3: RiftMeter, BiSCaL, RiftActionBarCooldowns, GCDDisplay
    Gadgets 0.11, updated for 4.3
    Softcap values for current prime
    a.k.a Aileenbor <Special Olympics> @ Icewatch

  2. #17
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Mechanic damage should generally be deducted as a percentage of the player's Lifepool. So it is gear independent. Good healer or 2 can handle this. Although the healers are better, but that is not so fast, it remains a challenge for a long time. This also applies to the normal instances, at the time many are running in fast-track through the inis, because they get little or no harm. The gear has become too good.

    Example: Whirlpool of Death 1000 HP tick. LOL Radiant Spores and Withering Vine can heal that, without further ado.
    Solution: 20 or 25% of the lifepool so about 3000 or 4000 ticks, more with better gear. You can not even cure that by the way. Then you have to pay attention to the mechanics.
    Last edited by Aijate; 04-21-2018 at 04:53 AM.

  3. #18
    Shadowlander Torankusu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Incoming damage is much too low. You should not be able to play a half-Bard spec and solo tank through a raid with a single, half-geared healer. Much of the problem here is with the two game-breaking ST healers, Frostkeeper and Warchanter, and their AoE-oriented cousin, Liberator. The amount of healing throughput and active mitigation that these souls can provide not only marginalizes all other healing souls, but the tank souls as well. The most egregious issues with these souls are:
    • Ameliorate (Liberator) - talented with Rescue and Restore, providing 6% active mitigation to affected targets.
    • Redress (Liberator) - talented with Additional Aid, provides temporary 7% active mitigation to an entire raid!(!!!)
    • We'll Get Through This! (Warchanter) - Provides 6% active mitigation to two targets simultaneously. It's an 8-point root ability!!!
    • Stewardship (Frostkeeper) - Provides 6% active mitigation to anyone affected by your single-target heals (while using Frostkeeper's Armor).

    These talents and abilities, by themselves, allow each of these souls to marginalize other comparable souls. (On top of that, they provide healing throughput superior to most equivalent souls.) Active mitigation is the single strongest tool for any healer in any circumstance, and even at seemingly-low percentage values can have a massive impact on incoming damage because of the way combat calculations work. Don't believe me? Look at the once-mighty Purifier, which is complete trash on Prime. Why? Because Sign of Faith (6% active mit) is a 54-point ability.

    Why am I talking about soul balance here? Because it's going to be impossible to balance your raids without addressing this. Outgoing damage to tanks and raids will need to be balanced around these souls -- as it stands, both are far too low in GP and DH. If you don't balance around them, they will trivialize the content, allowing organized raids to subtract healers from their comps for more DPS, compromising the stringency of DPS checks. If you do balance around them, you automatically make them necessary, crippling the flexibility of PUGs / LFR and smaller, more casual guilds and groups, and pigeon-holing Warriors into healing/BM (pretty sure most people don't play Warrior because they love to heal).

    Honorary mention to Motif of Tenacity, which should probably be swapped with Motif of Encouragement so it's not easily accessible to Riftstalkers. Also, Justicar is bugged and puts out more raid healing than most raid-healing souls. Just sayin'.

    Now, as for the raids specifically:

    Drowned Halls

    This place is a farce (aside from Hydriss maybe) largely because there is almost no punishment for failing mechanics. Jorb hits you with a sword the size of your character and somehow you survive; this is the only thing the boss does to kill people and tanks can completely ignore it. Or look at the Whirlpool on Isskal. Does it even do anything? I can't tell. I can't speak to Ragetide because I literally AFK and let Earthen Barrier keep the tank alive.

    There's virtually no unavoidable damage on the bosses in here, and the avoidable damage is entirely trivial. DPS checks are non-existent on the first three. Every single normal-mode dungeon is more difficult, and Hydriss is artificially difficult because she forces you to find a ton of broken Sabs to fill out your group.

    I really don't have much else to say about this. It's the most boring, undertuned mid-size dungeon I've ever experienced. I can't call it a "raid"; it's a joke, and not the funny kind.

    Gilded Prophecy

    This is a bit better-tuned.

    Outgoing damage on Anrak is a joke and, as always, you can just zerg him. Back when this raid was new, 3-4 stacks of the debuff would force a tank swap; now, tanks can get well in excess of 10 stacks without breaking a sweat. Auto-attack damage should be double or more what it is. Similarly, the first volley of Spines of Earth used to need to be quickly healed up before the second came or people would die. Not so much now.

    Guurloth is the best-tuned fight in either sliver. Tank damage is low, especially when the Friend of Guurloth is up; the Friend is supposed to force the tank to pull it out of melee, acting as an awareness / target switching check on the group, not provide a "free cleave" opportunity. Guurloth's auto-attack damage should be scaled up by 50-70%, and Boulder of Destruction's damage by 100% or more (tanks should not survive this without a serious cooldown). Earthen Punishment (i.e., "do nothing") damage should be scaled up by 200% or more (seriously, people should start dying after two hits of this). The DPS check seems appropriate, maybe a touch too high.

    Thalguur is a mess. The AP/SP bonus you're supposed to get from the crystals is not working; is the boss tuned on the assumption that it would be? If so, the DPS check makes more sense. If it wasn't, then this fight would be impossible without bugged DPS specs. Once again, outgoing damage is all but nonexistent. You can do this fight without a dedicated healer, especially if you have a Justicar.

    Uruluuk could use a tighter DPS check. Crashing Boulders needs to do twice as much damage as it currently does; missing an interrupt on the final boss? Come on. Outgoing damage in general is once again far too low, allowing the fight to be comfortably solo-healed without a real AOE healer. The pulsing damage from the crystal beacons should be increased by about 500%; given the benefit they provide, having the damage they deal be so trivial is encounter-breaking. The DPS check would be much tighter if you actually needed two healers. Slivers of Earth damage should be doubled.


    TL;DR: DPS and heal/tank checks do not operate independently of each other. The need for additional healers or tanks directly affects the ability of a group to meet a DPS check. In cases where DPS checks seem inexplicably lax, like Uruluuk, it's because we're solo-healing what ought to be a two-healer fight. Thus, having egregiously overpowered healing souls makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to properly balance encounters.
    Last edited by Torankusu; 04-21-2018 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #19
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    48

    Default

    P.S. Some of us that did DH and GP before the rollback did not get our raid currency. Some people (on the same run) seem to have gotten more than others for some odd reason, and some of us have none at all.

  5. #20
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamafk View Post
    P.S. Some of us that did DH and GP before the rollback did not get our raid currency. Some people (on the same run) seem to have gotten more than others for some odd reason, and some of us have none at all.
    Same. I only got 30 marks and I definitely looted a minimum of 50, probably closer to 100.
    Last edited by Buffrat; 04-21-2018 at 01:37 PM.
    Buffbat@Vigil - 50 Cleric
    <Disturbance>
    4/4 DH
    4/4 GP

  6. #21
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Those rapid assault and 3.30 achievements were always doable with full t1 gear ppl having relic weapons even sometimes with T2 gears, 3.875x value is changing some bosses it was value I compared when GSB opened on prime from Duke Latereus' hp but still amount i meant making like almost 10% ish nerf boss hp, other than that all bosses doable even enrage on GP 3rd and DH last bosses, and all classes except warriors easily can pull 2k+ dps.

    Still considering this are introduction raids and should be welcoming new players this values should be rechecked but like I mentioned damage on tanks are joke, I can easily tank 1st boss on GP with 25 to 30stacks of brittle, when this raid released even best geared tanks suffered when they had 5 or more stacks, so it can give you slight idea on tank damage, group damage is also joke, you can basically ignore whirlpool on Isskal or following directives on Guurloth.
    Something people seem to be forgetting is planar attunement hasn't been unlocked yet. You get a very significant amount of stats from PA which will help bring these kill times down a fair bit.
    I'm ya boss baby, crank it like a chainsaw
    Rogue Moses of <Coriolis>
    "Everyone do their crafting dailies today?"
    Feed our Turtles, upload your combat logs!

  7. #22
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Something people seem to be forgetting is planar attunement hasn't been unlocked yet. You get a very significant amount of stats from PA which will help bring these kill times down a fair bit.
    Oh yea also this will help but with this pace it will be miracle to see PA enabled in 6 months because it came with ember isle patch...
    RemoveBuff a simple addon for replacing cancelbuff command.
    Addons updated for 4.3: RiftMeter, BiSCaL, RiftActionBarCooldowns, GCDDisplay
    Gadgets 0.11, updated for 4.3
    Softcap values for current prime
    a.k.a Aileenbor <Special Olympics> @ Icewatch

  8. #23
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    18

    Default

    So, I'm wearing something like 8 best in slot items of gear prior to these being released, and in my 7Bladedancer/51Riftstalker/8tact build, I've tanked 3/4 DH and 1/X Gp to victory. With guildmates, we've only successfully tipped the third boss of DH once out of my ~18 attempts.

    I tried a 0BD/51RS/15Bard, but in my gear, I was getting chewed up without the extra mitigation from Tactician. My frostkeeper healer appreciated me switching back to my original spec after a wipe last night on the second DH boss.

    From my anecdotal perspective, I know my guild is punching up on these bosses, despite fielding some of the shards first 50s and several of the best dps I've seen outside of . We have only beat the first boss's in DH enrage timers with banners. The rest of the time, we just battle rez me once and then kite around while I race back from respawn to taunt and shift and die again. We've successfully defeated the second boss with only going 4 seconds into enrage once out of our ~6 times tipping it.

    Third boss requires a lot from a group of middle-aged, middle-income, middle-skilled players. The adds can't be taunted, so I have to rely on people bringing them close to the boss for Sab/Ranger AOE to. Right and properly pisses me off I can't taunt adds in a boss fight. What's the point of giving me a skill with a long cooldown I have to manage to make sure it's available right when I need it if I can't even us it? Minding one's feet is critical in most games, and Rift proves no different. Reaction times are hampered by rubberbanding, ability lag, and the occasional straight up misplay/miskey.

    No one I know is asking for raids to be easy. But, we're losing people who've been working on gear and play and hoping for success because they lack the patience to wipe with guildmates on content that proves challenging for us, if not for others.

    Exactly who is Rift's target audience? I don't care if the best geared, best skilled, and best looking players in the game find content trivial. Isn't that why god invented hard modes and scaled up challenges? My guildmates work hard to invest several hours a day into this game, after work, before dinner, and/or after the little ones go to bed. They're working to get as geared as they can at a pace that only experts and raid rifts allow.

    It's wholly disappointing that our efforts over the first two months of prime have only helped us achieve 3/4 and 1/4 with kiting against enrage timers for first bosses and straight up failing many enrage timers on successive bosses.

    The queue system requires 2 tanks, 2 healers, 1 support, and 5 dps. Did any of the devs actually test that setup? In order to beat the enrage timers, we need to scale down to 1 tank and 1 healer with only a beastmaster for support and require that each other player run the single highest dps spec available--which means only Ranger/Sabs, Runeshapers, and whatever mages do these days.

    Like, have any of the devs even played this game? I'd like to think Roughraptors does, since I first encountered him farming planarite at 34 or something in Stillmoor during the marathon event that wouldn't end over the weekend. I don't think he represents enough of the playerbase, as I see groups and players cater to him and his whims at their whims.

    Why don't you tell us, Trion? Exactly how are we supposed to do your bosses with 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 1 support? What's the DPS needed on the remaining 5 players to cover for the recommended five players? And what gear are our players supposed to have? Tell me how many bosses my people have to kill in experts to clear out the vendors and about how many raid rifts we're supposed to run, and tell me how many hours we're supposed to play to kill all of the bosses in these first two ten-man raids.

    I'm of a mind that you ought to bell curve this. Throw out the results of the fastest boss-killers and the players who kill no bosses upon entering. Scale it down so the middling groups have an easier time achieving that fun you see to want us to get out of our subscriptions.

    And FFS, it'd be nice if clerics, rogues, and mages, and warriors had more than one viable DPS spec. Like, wouldn't it be nice if every soul could be viable if we invested 51 points into the talent trees?

    I cannot for the life of me do the math on how many expert bosses I'm supposed to kill and about how many raid rifts I'm supposed to spend lures on to reserve a piece of loot that may or may not drop. But here's math I can do: after not missing a single day of game time since prime launched, I and my friends are only 3/4 and 1/4 in our tenmans.

    And not one ounce of this has been fun.

  9. #24
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baitmask View Post
    Exactly how are we supposed to do your bosses with 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 1 support?
    The queue system requires that so that your group isn't short a tank or a healer for encounters that require more than 1. You are expected to be able to play more than just the role you queue up for.

    Most of the bosses in DH and GP have only been solo tanked, even in vanilla.
    I'm ya boss baby, crank it like a chainsaw
    Rogue Moses of <Coriolis>
    "Everyone do their crafting dailies today?"
    Feed our Turtles, upload your combat logs!

  10. #25
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baitmask View Post
    So, I'm wearing something like 8 best in slot items of gear prior to these being released, and in my 7Bladedancer/51Riftstalker/8tact build, I've tanked 3/4 DH and 1/X Gp to victory. With guildmates, we've only successfully tipped the third boss of DH once out of my ~18 attempts.

    I tried a 0BD/51RS/15Bard, but in my gear, I was getting chewed up without the extra mitigation from Tactician. My frostkeeper healer appreciated me switching back to my original spec after a wipe last night on the second DH boss.
    This is going to be a bit off topic but, let me clear one thing for you, going 7bd is useless, 10% dex increase will only grant you 3 or 4 more guard, few more dodge and block depending how much dex you have, only reason you go bd is side steps and 0 point is doing it better.

    Mitigation you gain from tactician is minimal with this gear even if you went for 7ranger instead of 7 bd, mitigation you gain won't help you so much, total 5% damage reduce compared to higher hp and healing received plus 10% more healing received when you going down 30%, considering you didn't even go ranger or bard for another hp increase, you had way below hp than what I had too with 8tact/7bd spec, so it must be your FK doing stuff.

    You can see below screenshots, and streams we did when raids started I tanked all bosses on DH with 51/15.





    I also didn't put anthem and fanfare on to show you how much little is the difference, since raid buffs giving them, with anthem and fanfare on armor amount is same, which is actually good for non raid enviroment.

    You can see I was tanking 31 stacks on Anrak with 51/15, so like I said it was your FK doing something wrongly, not to mention damage on anywhere else is pure joke on this raids. They are just absurd dps checks specially 4th boss DH and 3rd boss GP.
    Last edited by aileen; 04-22-2018 at 11:30 AM.
    RemoveBuff a simple addon for replacing cancelbuff command.
    Addons updated for 4.3: RiftMeter, BiSCaL, RiftActionBarCooldowns, GCDDisplay
    Gadgets 0.11, updated for 4.3
    Softcap values for current prime
    a.k.a Aileenbor <Special Olympics> @ Icewatch

  11.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #26
    Rift Team RoughRaptors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    The queue system requires that so that your group isn't short a tank or a healer for encounters that require more than 1. You are expected to be able to play more than just the role you queue up for.
    100% correct. This is the composition needed to be able to fight any boss in the instance, not necessarily the comp for every boss inside of it.

    To go a tiny bit more in depth, when LFR was built, we added the capability of adding different role requirements per boss (this still exists, right now every boss is identical), and then when trying to form a group it goes through everyone in queue and forms a group making sure that for those specific 10 people they can fit every boss role permutation required. This ended up being extremely slow due to the combinatorial nature of it and LFR ended up not popping. We created a second matchmaking system that's really really fast if all bosses require the same roles and still would love to go back and be able to make the old one more efficient, but right now there are other things on the table that need to get done so it's not something we're currently looking at revisiting.

    Could this be communicated more easily? Probably. It's something I'll bring up with the team next week.
    Last edited by RoughRaptors; 04-22-2018 at 11:30 AM.
    Previously known as SupermanSocks


  12. #27
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    To go a tiny bit more in depth, when LFR was built,

    Could this be communicated more easily? Probably. It's something I'll bring up with the team next week.
    Can you also add an option to enter instances by clicking icon like we have on LFG? This would be very good QoL because each time when someone goes out for some reason, we need to relog since most people still don't have quantum sight and we are not close to entrance.
    RemoveBuff a simple addon for replacing cancelbuff command.
    Addons updated for 4.3: RiftMeter, BiSCaL, RiftActionBarCooldowns, GCDDisplay
    Gadgets 0.11, updated for 4.3
    Softcap values for current prime
    a.k.a Aileenbor <Special Olympics> @ Icewatch

  13.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #28
    Rift Team RoughRaptors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Can you also add an option to enter instances by clicking icon like we have on LFG? This would be very good QoL because each time when someone goes out for some reason, we need to relog since most people still don't have quantum sight and we are not close to entrance.
    That feature already exists, is the "enter instance" (or w/e it's called) button not under your minimap after entering LFR? Because it at least used to be :-/. I'll check it out if I get time tomorrow.
    Previously known as SupermanSocks


  14. #29
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    That feature already exists, is the "enter instance" (or w/e it's called) button not under your minimap after entering LFR? Because it at least used to be :-/. I'll check it out if I get time tomorrow.
    Sadly there is not, you can see it from above SS, I showed for tanking anrak, that would be great if it comes
    RemoveBuff a simple addon for replacing cancelbuff command.
    Addons updated for 4.3: RiftMeter, BiSCaL, RiftActionBarCooldowns, GCDDisplay
    Gadgets 0.11, updated for 4.3
    Softcap values for current prime
    a.k.a Aileenbor <Special Olympics> @ Icewatch

  15. #30
    Plane Walker Scourge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    442

    Default

    Pretty sure I remember being able to enter and leave freely when I did TD LFR briefly, but it is 100% not working on Prime for premades. No idea if actual LFG groups have the option.
    Focus@Vigil | 60 Mage
    Prime Storm Legion Mage Guide

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts