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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Individual loot for raiding is the smartest thing you guys have ever done..

  1. #1
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    Default Individual loot for raiding is the smartest thing you guys have ever done..

    ..to artificially extend end game content.

    9 raid bosses, so far, and 1 piece of loot.

    That loot is also tank gear and i have never played tank nor heal.

    "That's a bold move cotton, let's see if it pays off"
    Last edited by whiskiz; 04-19-2018 at 04:26 PM.

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    Rift Team RoughRaptors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskiz View Post
    9 raid bosses, so far, and 1 piece of loot.

    That loot is also tank gear and i have never played tank nor heal.
    Beforehand doing 9 bosses would net you ~27 total gear pieces for your entire raid assuming 3 drops per boss and not 2 along with it being a 20 man raid (I believe 10 mans used to be 2 but I am not 100% on that). This was a mix of every class. Let's just say that with perfectly even distribution and no primalists that lowers it to ~6.75 pieces of loot for 9 bosses that you could potentially even equip. Now take into account any of those might be tank/heal/dps and your chances go down even more of it being for you. Now take into account there's probably 3-5 other people in your raid that you are competing against for this piece of loot (not even counting shared accessories).

    I can think of many, many times where I had gone weeks (30+ boss kills) without a single piece of gear simply because of competition and nothing I need dropping.

    9 bosses with one piece of loot is probably better than what I saw most people getting in terms of getting gear from when I used to raid.

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    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    The thing about "you could go weeks without getting any loot in the old system too" totally discounts the fact someone was getting something.

    With the current drop rates I can see the argument between the two systems on an individual basis but personal loot is most definitely worse for the group. Clearing DH would get you 8 pieces of loot for your raid, now there's a not insignificant chance no one gets anything.
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    Rift Team RoughRaptors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Clearing DH would get you 8 pieces of loot for your raid, now there's a not insignificant chance no one gets anything.
    Totally agree, there's definitely both pros and cons to the system.

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    9 bosses so far. I could tell something wasn't quite right, as evidenced by others rng. Id rather get out in front of it, instead of having done alot more for alot less before making this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Clearing DH would get you 8 pieces of loot for your raid, now there's a not insignificant chance no one gets anything.
    Meanwhile there's also the opposite extreme - where a person in a 10man has gotten 2 - 3 drops from a single boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    Now take into account there's probably 3-5 other people in your raid that you are competing against for this piece of loot (not even counting shared accessories).
    That's the thing - besides PUGS/LFR there is no competing - in guild runs the loot is distributed evenly.

    Going along with your example with that mind - 6.75 pieces of equippable loot for between 3 - 5 means almost 1 3/4 pieces per person on average, so almost 2 pieces - each. Guaranteed.

    The best part? the loot actually gets distributed to the players who can use it in their role (the tank piece i received i'm just going to literally end up vendoring since i dont tank/heal)

    So:

    Almost 2 pieces each, of role appropriate gear, guaranteed, while also receiving only pieces that are upgrades (and not the same piece)

    Or 1 piece in maybe every 10 - 15+ bosses, with drops you may not even use, while some people randomly get multiple drops on a boss, while also getting random repeated drops of the same pieces.

    Where are the pros?

    Edit: Hell id even take rando chances at 6.75 pieces of mostly role appropriate, non repeated, guaranteed gear between 3 - 5 in LFR/PUG.
    Last edited by whiskiz; 04-20-2018 at 12:58 AM.

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    Individual loot is not necessarily bad, but the drop rate is atrocious. 6 weekly kills + 12? charges used and no loot yet!

    Others in my raid are getting loot, but even with 18 bosses killed I would estimate less than 18 items total. Is the drop rate 5%? Expert bosses that take 2 m to kill and 5-10 min between bosses was already something players were complaining about taking too long to gear up. (I wasn't one of them). Now you have raid bosses taking 6-10 minutes per kill + a few minutes of trash as well as requiring 2x as many players to complete.

    Can we expect drop rates to improve with tomorrow's changes as well or should I expect to have to kill each boss 20+ times to get my next tier of upgrades?
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-19-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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    Champion of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    Beforehand doing 9 bosses would net you ~27 total gear pieces for your entire raid assuming 3 drops per boss and not 2 along with it being a 20 man raid (I believe 10 mans used to be 2 but I am not 100% on that). This was a mix of every class. Let's just say that with perfectly even distribution and no primalists that lowers it to ~6.75 pieces of loot for 9 bosses that you could potentially even equip. Now take into account any of those might be tank/heal/dps and your chances go down even more of it being for you. Now take into account there's probably 3-5 other people in your raid that you are competing against for this piece of loot (not even counting shared accessories).

    I can think of many, many times where I had gone weeks (30+ boss kills) without a single piece of gear simply because of competition and nothing I need dropping.

    9 bosses with one piece of loot is probably better than what I saw most people getting in terms of getting gear from when I used to raid.
    Well here is what i did since release:
    2xfull clear GP
    1xfull clear DH
    1x GP first 2 bosses only
    4x GP first boss only
    5x DH first 3 bosses only
    1x DH first 2 bosses only

    I got finally a weapon for my dps gear from GP first boss on our last full clear, got tanking boots from him, DH last boss dropped tanking ring and all of that DH runs only 1 trash loot for whole group I was in and I rolled high on that necklace.

    So around 35 kills I finally got a dps dagger I can use, I vendored that tanking ring cuz expert ones I have more hp and guard instead of block on it, for tanking boots they are fine drop.

    Honestly, loot chances are so so so low compared to what we had on LFR TD and experts on both prime and live.

    Also on some runs none in our raid got any drop but marks and it possibly happend 2 or 3 runs in a row.
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    My question is, for the marks, is the gear stats that will be sold by the vendor similar to the drops? If so, that's not bad because you'll be getting vendor gear via bosses AND through marks. Use the marks on gear you're missing. Unlike experts, the gear dropped has lower stats than vendor, but are quicker to complete.

    You can also run the raids at least once daily after using up your free rolls by acquiring more rolls via crafting dailies and events. Once you're done doing your daily run, farm the marks via experts. This method continues to make events and experts relevant after adding raids.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Ting's Avatar
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    40 bosses 2 drops. I'm not a fan of personal loot because of the inability to pick a spec for loot + terrible drop chance.

    At lease with 2 drops per boss that gear is getting rotated to people who actually need it and not dupes or offspec gear. It's more RNG on top of my RNG.

  10. #10
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    Trion THIS IS NOT FUNNY.
    18 bosses and no loot at all, only marks.
    i decided to stop raid untill they raise drop rate. old system was way better, by rollin you get better chance of gear. also not getting new gear, only way to play and advance on prime is wait untill next zone comes out then can upgrade gear again.
    Its just not worth, the time consumed there. drop rate is way too low.
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  11. #11
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    Don't the marks also allow you access to raid vendor gear? I genuinely don't know so I'm asking.

    In regard to what system is better, it doesn't really seem all that different to me. Bosses within the old system had guaranteed drops, but they also had the chance to drop the same 2 - 4 pieces every week for 15-20 lockouts which means your raid team by a certain point was getting absolutely nothing of it except marks to purchase that set of gear.

    Now you can continuously farm it (as long as you have IRCs) without the worry of lockouts, though it seems(key word there) that the drop rate is extremely low. They'll probably wait until Wed to gauge the data from people clearing it between now and then and bump it up as needed from there. It would be nice to have some sort of spreadsheet like the one Keyens provided back when LFR TD released. It showed that the people not getting anything were in the minority and were unfortunately extremely unlucky in that regard while on average most people were getting what they needed.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 04-20-2018 at 12:29 AM.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Don't the marks also allow you access to raid vendor gear? I genuinely don't know so I'm asking.
    Yes, wait for the item prices next Wednesday when the vendor gets unlocked. I hope we don't see similar prices as we had with Intel upgrades just to stretch the content...
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    Buying gear from a raid vendor is something - but after 1 or 2 free rolls a day, having to spend half the day farming events to then spend the other half of the day farming raids, to maybe get one piece of gear, to then hoping that gear is applicable to roles you play and not a repeat piece, to then be able to maybe buy a piece from vendors every now and then, i don't think is worth.

    And that's best case scenario where vendor gear has the same stats as raid and is relatively easy to acquire (enough currency to maybe get a piece every day or so) otherwise you're then looking at inferior gear and only a piece or 2 every week or so, on top.
    Last edited by whiskiz; 04-20-2018 at 01:31 PM.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Will gear from the Vendor have any pieces with Crit Power on them?

    If not can you change the loot tables so that Physical & Spell Crit items have a 50% chance to instead be Crit Power.

    Also maybe allow cross class Weapons, Rings and Necks to available to either class, though the drop rate will have to increase because of the additional items.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskiz View Post
    Buying gear from a raid vendor is something - but after 1 or 2 free rolls a day, having to spend half the day farming events to then spend the other half of the day farming raids, to maybe get one piece of gear, to then hoping that gear is applicable to roles you play and not a repeat piece, to then be able to maybe buy another piece from vendors, i don't think is worth.

    And that's best case scenario where vendor gear has the same stats as raid and is relatively easy to acquire (enough currency to maybe get a piece every day or so) otherwise you're then looking at inferior gear and only one piece every couple days or so, on top.
    I agree drop rate sucks but... instead of farming events for charges you can do 10 mins worth of crafting dailies for some charges.

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