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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Hammerknell was deleted?

  1. #1
    Champion Taaltos's Avatar
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    Default Hammerknell was deleted?

    I don't know what Forum to put this in, so it's here, since it's about Vigil Patch or Shard Info.

    Apparently, Hammerknell, the original Level 50 version was deleted?

    [5:32 PM] RoughRaptors@PrimeyMcPrimeFace: yeah
    [5:32 PM] RoughRaptors@PrimeyMcPrimeFace: it was deleted
    Is this true? Because part of the main reason I came back to to progress back to Hammerknell.

    What's the story here? Am I just being trolled?

    Will Hammerknell be back? What raids WILL be available on Vigil?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Taaltos; 03-11-2018 at 03:37 PM.
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    HK was half the fun of Classic raiding.

    I dunno if they expect subs to last the year if this happens, or rather doesn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    HK was half the fun of Classic raiding.

    I dunno if they expect subs to last the year if this happens, or rather doesn't happen.
    HK was reworked to be level 65 tier 2 raid. old HK does not exists anymore.
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  4. #4
    Champion Taaltos's Avatar
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    So, is it going to be on Prime, or no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taaltos View Post
    So, is it going to be on Prime, or no?
    yes, roughly in a half a year with Nightmare Tide expansion.
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    This is why you don't remove content, Trion.

    Tweak it if necessary. But HK was huge and what you did to it... .

    Kinda misses the point of 'progression' part of 'progression server'.

    At least I know the point where I may unsub (post-T1).

  7. #7
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    Wait, so instead of just turning the portal to level the 50 hammerknell off, they deleted the code/scripting for it? Why isn't the lvl 65 hk a separate instance? I hope we can get some clarification on this because this sounds like a horrible and confusing business decision. I know a lot of people came back specifically for lvl 50 hk and could possibly abandon Rift Prime for that reason alone. I want really want Rift Prime to be successful but man thats perplexing. :|

    They have two separate portals for normal and Intrepid Drowned Halls, Guilded Prophecy, rotp etc.... Why would they not be able to do this with HK? If they truly wrote over the code for HK, surely they have a backup somewhere? I refuse to believe that any competent gaming company would straight up delete the script/coding of the best raid they ever made from their archives.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    These raids are still available on Live, probably what's coming to Prime:

    Classic:
    T1: Greenscale's Blight, River of Souls, Gilded Prophecy, Drowned Halls
    T2: Rise of the Phoenix
    T3: Infernal Dawn, Primeval Feast

    Storm Legion:
    T1: Frozen Tempest, Endless Eclipse, Triumph of the Dragon Queen, Intrepid Drowned Halls
    T2: Planebreaker Bastion, Infinity Gate
    T3: Bindings of Blood, Grim Awakening

    Nightmare Tide:
    T1: Mount Sharax, Tyrant's Forge, Rhen of Fate
    T2: Hammerknell Fortress, Intrepid Gilded Prophecy
    T3: Mind of Madness
    T3.5: Comet of Ahnket

    So Hammerknell WILL come, but near to the end of the progression of the server. Maybe it's good to keep the hype up (also being followed by Mind of Madness makes two killer raids at the end!)
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    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshatar View Post
    Maybe it's good to keep the hype up
    ...uh...sure... No Classic HK... hype up...

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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    This is pretty funny. I ended up quitting while waiting for HK to launch back in the day, and I heard it ended up being a very good zone. I was excited to give it a shot here, oh well.

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  11.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #11
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    Hello!

    Let me start off by saying I am not directly on the Rift team so I maybe a little wrong here but I think this needs some clarification and they can correct me if I am wrong

    No, HK was not "deleted" in the strictest sense. It was however leveled up to what is live now.

    What does this mean?
    If you take all the things from the original HK and adjust the levels of each thing and tune it to be a level 65 raid you will have the HK we have today.

    So just turn it back!! How hard can it be noob??? Geez!

    Let me try to paint a clearer picture. If we take Akylios and give him a database ID of 1000, then we take all the things that make him possible, models, sounds, scripts, abilities, etc etc. And we associate all those to ID 1000, then we change ID 1000 to lvl65 and maybe tune a couple things here and there we didnt delete him but it is forever altered to what it is now. Everything associated to ID 1000, many levels deep, is now changed which is probably 100s or 1000s of things believe it or not for just Akylios. Now think of the entire zone.

    I really dont know all the pieces of it all because I am not a part of rift but I can see the data.

    In order to get a copy of the original HK back you will have to very literally copy every single element from the HK zone all the way down to the lowest level and remap them all to new IDs from the top to the bottom level. This means all the scripts need to use new ID's of everything, abilities, graphics, sounds, etc all the ID's will change and need to all be remapped to new ones.

    Besides just copying things the old data also needs to fit the new data model as things have changed over time. There are new, changed, and deleted data points that need to be accounted for and they are at many levels.

    It is a fairly complex problem to solve but we do have the original HK data and I am staring at it right now

    So what is the solution??
    Well, try and remap it all. This can't be done by hand because of how many objects there are and literally trying to manually remap each and every value would take a long long time. Months of someones time I imagine, there is an unbelievable amount of data points that need to be touched and adjusted perfectly to make it all work.

    Ok so you said nothing good, what now?
    Well, I am in the process of using my "off-time" and allowed some work time to try and remap all this programmatically. I can't guarantee it will work as it is pretty complex but I'm hopeful.
    So, that is where it is at I hope this helps a little.

    ~BDD

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Clowd's Avatar
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    Thanks BigDataDude, for the clarity. Though I have one question:

    It is clear that there is the ability to copy zones, then uptune them into a new instance. We see this with the many "Intrepid" dungeons, raids, and chronicles in the current Live game.

    If you don't mind me asking - What is the reason why the level 65 Hammerknell cannot be, or is not being, copied like an Intrepid, and tuned that for level 50?
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  13. #13
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    I wonder why Hk was modified in the first place instead of creating a copy and changing that for level 65. All the 10 intrepid raids appear to have been done this way i.e. you can still visit both versions. It seems odd that HK was not done the same.

    If by off time BBD you mean your day off then that is not on at all. Please Don't use your days off to work on Rift. Enjoy your time off. If trion wants this then they should hire more staff. Not cool at all!

  14. #14
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    The only thing I can think of is that it was the most efficient use of their resources at the time to use the existing code and scale it up. Also HK is significantly larger and more complex than the intrepid 10 man counterparts so it would probably not have been as easy to clone and scale up the raid. This is just pure speculation on my part.

    Regardless, thank you for the clarification BDD. We really appreciate you doing this! (and everyone else who may be involved) HK 50 is pretty critical to us whiny old players. Even if you are ultimately not successful, we appreciate you using your free time to try.
    Last edited by Dwops; 03-12-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    I wonder why Hk was modified in the first place instead of creating a copy and changing that for level 65. All the 10 intrepid raids appear to have been done this way i.e. you can still visit both versions. It seems odd that HK was not done the same.

    If by off time BBD you mean your day off then that is not on at all. Please Don't use your days off to work on Rift. Enjoy your time off. If trion wants this then they should hire more staff. Not cool at all!
    We wondered that at the time as well. God NMT T2 makes so little sense to me.

    And thanks BDD!

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