+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
Like Tree87Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Hammerknell was deleted?

  1. #31
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    I think there is time, probably about 3 months to get this fixed. If Trion doesn't have anyone other than BDD (in his off time no less) working on this, then they need to give him some help. It sounds like a small thing but its not. HK was what put Rift on the map as a serious MMO contender. Even WoW players had to respect it and for those of us who were no progression raiders, the world event was to me one of the greatest MMO memories I have. It should be a priority to get this fixed.
    This (with my emphasis). The original HK is why a good majority of people have returned, are on prime rather than live, or taking serious time away from live. No - the L65 version is not what we wanted, asked for, or thought we were getting. The return of HK original has probably been the most consistently requested change (outside of the important issues of class balance, frag update etc).

    It is wonderful that BDD is working on this, and even took the time to give us an easy to understand explanation of why this is a difficult project. Trion NEEDS to get more people on this because I suspect that without the original HK, prime will fall into decline.

  2. #32
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Just move those Zeros and Ones around!!
    My guildies and I are here for the classic raids!! Can't wait to chew glass and progress!

  3. #33
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    23

    Default

    as someone who raided the original HK and then left, I can say for a fact the original HK are half the reason me and my friend are back after all these years. This needs to be a top priority or people WILL leave. A lot of the people on prime are here for the classic raid content. not having it is a deal breaker IMO

  4. #34
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Programming 101, make backups of your program in case a deployment is screwy and you need to revert. Granted it is a long time ago and this probably didn't come to mind, something to ponder for the future.

  5. #35
    Prophet of Telara Torvaldr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,075

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cellor View Post
    Programming 101, make backups of your program in case a deployment is screwy and you need to revert. Granted it is a long time ago and this probably didn't come to mind, something to ponder for the future.
    Programming 501 -- all that crap you learned in 101 was an oversimplified concept that had no basis in reality or pragmatic implementation. Source control reversions are a nightmare.

  6. #36
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    7,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cellor View Post
    Programming 101, make backups of your program in case a deployment is screwy and you need to revert. Granted it is a long time ago and this probably didn't come to mind, something to ponder for the future.
    They never should have removed HK 50 in the first place. There's no sense to it. If gear, wardrobe, platinum grind was a concern, then at most they could play with that, but the instance itself was a 50 story and if anything should have had added a solo-adjustment toggle so someone questing could experience the storyline instead of an increasingly jumbled mess.

    This gives me GPTSD (Gamers PTSD) of WoW Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Maeloda; 03-18-2018 at 12:07 PM.

  7. #37
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    887

    Default

    Isn't this like what they did with Naxx on WoW. Not enough people played it at the time out of the entire population due to varying reasons, so they just revamped it in the next expansion to be played properly, which it was.

    I also don't believe WoW left in the level 50 version of Naxx as there was no need for it. It allowed people to practise the mechanics on an easier version, while also gaining achievements and wardrobe appearances that only a limited few originally received. They obviously didn't want this.

    So it made sense to delete the original and vamp it up.

    Personally I see no problem with this, but I never played HK in the original rift so I can't have a great opinion on this. If lots of people did play the original HK and it was extensively played and not just by the elite at the time, then I do find this change odd. It could of course be a lazy revamp for Nightmare Tide, as Nightmare Tide got very much like that, and to somewhat hide their tracks they didn't make it Intrepid, they made it the "new" version instead. Who knows, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But Nightmare Tide was the beginning of the revamp train.
    Last edited by Refuge; 03-19-2018 at 10:13 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  8. #38
    Shadowlander mattlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New jersey
    Posts
    45

    Default

    HK return was one of the biggest reasons I came back to Rift. I really hope they get this close to what it was.

  9. #39
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    7,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Isn't this like what they did with Naxx on WoW. Not enough people played it at the time out of the entire population due to varying reasons, so they just revamped it in the next expansion to be played properly, which it was.

    I also don't believe WoW left in the level 50 version of Naxx as there was no need for it. It allowed people to practise the mechanics on an easier version, while also gaining achievements and wardrobe appearances that only a limited few originally received. They obviously didn't want this.

    So it made sense to delete the original and vamp it up.

    Personally I see no problem with this, but I never played HK in the original rift so I can't have a great opinion on this. If lots of people did play the original HK and it was extensively played and not just by the elite at the time, then I do find this change odd. It could of course be a lazy revamp for Nightmare Tide, as Nightmare Tide got very much like that, and to somewhat hide their tracks they didn't make it Intrepid, they made it the "new" version instead. Who knows, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But Nightmare Tide was the beginning of the revamp train.
    They shouldn't have removed Lv 50 Naxx. Change its loot, sure, but Naxx was part of the game's (including storyline) progression. The achievement angle is silly; should they remove all lower level instances to satisfy the 'challenge' requirement of achievements? Maybe. I wouldn't play such a game though. (Or at least, the game should embrace scaling)

  10. #40
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maeloda View Post
    They shouldn't have removed Lv 50 Naxx. Change its loot, sure, but Naxx was part of the game's (including storyline) progression. The achievement angle is silly; should they remove all lower level instances to satisfy the 'challenge' requirement of achievements? Maybe. I wouldn't play such a game though. (Or at least, the game should embrace scaling)
    Except level 60*** naxx was exactly the same as the one they reintroduced in wotlk. Same mechanics everything was the exact same. The main reason why people thought that level 60 naxx was hard was because 40 mans raiding in general were easy and you could have 10-20 bad players and still get away with it. Naxx was the first 40 man content in the original game that required all 40 players to do mechanics and play well.

    The difference with rift is that Vanilla HK vs level 65 HK aren't the same... like at all... difficulty wise and fun wise HK is the only raid I was about to stick the entire progression back in the days and it was really fun and challenging, Akylios was an amazing and frustrating fight. Level 65 is no where near that fun I had back during vanilla sadly. Hopefully if they do make prime servers "Seasonal" they'll try to restore original HK

  11. #41
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Isn't this like what they did with Naxx on WoW. Not enough people played it at the time out of the entire population due to varying reasons, so they just revamped it in the next expansion to be played properly, which it was.

    I also don't believe WoW left in the level 50 version of Naxx as there was no need for it. It allowed people to practise the mechanics on an easier version, while also gaining achievements and wardrobe appearances that only a limited few originally received. They obviously didn't want this.

    So it made sense to delete the original and vamp it up.

    On my server we were regularly running old raids and content for the fun and the get some rare items and stuff, we even had some people purposely staying at those raid level for the challenge and fun, some people want to see that content, taking it away kind of destroyed all that, It was also fun to level up through them too, allowed people to get some gear and all even if they didn't last long + made level 60 pvp instance a blast


    Except level 60*** naxx was exactly the same as the one they reintroduced in wotlk. Same mechanics everything was the exact same. The main reason why people thought that level 60 naxx was hard was because 40 mans raiding in general were easy and you could have 10-20 bad players and still get away with it. Naxx was the first 40 man content in the original game that required all 40 players to do mechanics and play well.
    Not entirely so, because of the 10 man version they changed at least the four horsemen ( the back one didn't move because it would have needed 4 tanks then at least) they just aggro'd to whoever was closer.. Also the same boss had less hp than the 40 version, always felt strange to me =)

    Still would have rather left HK alone instead of remaking it and make something more unique instead :/

  12. #42
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDataDude View Post
    Hello!

    Let me start off by saying I am not directly on the Rift team so I maybe a little wrong here but I think this needs some clarification and they can correct me if I am wrong

    No, HK was not "deleted" in the strictest sense. It was however leveled up to what is live now.

    What does this mean?
    If you take all the things from the original HK and adjust the levels of each thing and tune it to be a level 65 raid you will have the HK we have today.

    So just turn it back!! How hard can it be noob??? Geez!

    Let me try to paint a clearer picture. If we take Akylios and give him a database ID of 1000, then we take all the things that make him possible, models, sounds, scripts, abilities, etc etc. And we associate all those to ID 1000, then we change ID 1000 to lvl65 and maybe tune a couple things here and there we didnt delete him but it is forever altered to what it is now. Everything associated to ID 1000, many levels deep, is now changed which is probably 100s or 1000s of things believe it or not for just Akylios. Now think of the entire zone.

    I really dont know all the pieces of it all because I am not a part of rift but I can see the data.

    In order to get a copy of the original HK back you will have to very literally copy every single element from the HK zone all the way down to the lowest level and remap them all to new IDs from the top to the bottom level. This means all the scripts need to use new ID's of everything, abilities, graphics, sounds, etc all the ID's will change and need to all be remapped to new ones.

    Besides just copying things the old data also needs to fit the new data model as things have changed over time. There are new, changed, and deleted data points that need to be accounted for and they are at many levels.

    It is a fairly complex problem to solve but we do have the original HK data and I am staring at it right now

    So what is the solution??
    Well, try and remap it all. This can't be done by hand because of how many objects there are and literally trying to manually remap each and every value would take a long long time. Months of someones time I imagine, there is an unbelievable amount of data points that need to be touched and adjusted perfectly to make it all work.

    Ok so you said nothing good, what now?
    Well, I am in the process of using my "off-time" and allowed some work time to try and remap all this programmatically. I can't guarantee it will work as it is pretty complex but I'm hopeful.
    So, that is where it is at I hope this helps a little.

    ~BDD
    Dood, version control ....

  13.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #43
    Rift Team
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shabushabu View Post
    Dood, version control ....
    Dood, that has nothing to do with it, like really.


  14. #44
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,271

    Default

    There are plenty of us that think vanilla with no Hammerknell would be a travesty.

    I'm also pretty sure no one here thinks of me as a white knight.

    With those two things said: I don't care how it happened or whose fault it is. BDD is out here trying to make it happen on his own time as a passion project. If anyone deserves some respect it's him. When it comes to this game that's the definition of a hero.
    I'm ya boss baby, crank it like a chainsaw
    Rogue Moses of <Coriolis>
    "Everyone do their crafting dailies today?"
    Feed our Turtles, upload your combat logs!

  15. #45
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    3,768

    Default

    They have not touched RoS for many years so it would be much harder to scale it for the devs than bring back HK simply due to the amount of work they have done with that instance recently. Especially how many times they rehashed it in some way with 2xchronicles + instant adventures + 2x raid. When you look at it this way it may actually seem the easiest way for them to bring back Tier 2 to Prime rather than possibly upgrade RoS to a tier 2. But thanks for the effort. Hopefully it is not as much work that it will cause big gaps in content releases.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 04-04-2018 at 04:02 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts