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Thread: [Feedback] Riftstalker tanking problems and latest RD change.

  1. #1
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Default [Feedback] Riftstalker tanking problems and latest RD change.

    Hello,
    As you know Riftstalkers are very unique tanking soul in RIFT, with ability to plane shift from place to place they were used as kite tanking on very early period of the game, since RS had lots of cooldowns and resistances, they were used as magical tanking on vanilla specially on encounters like Herald Gaurath, Greenscale etc. HK showed that physical mitigation was big problem for RS and most encounters like Murdantix, Sicaron etc was hardly tankable by RS because of heavy mitigation, time after time fixes and improvemens all encounters almost doable as RS.

    RS had always lesser aoe threat than clerics but on prime RS and most other tanks issue is not aoe threat but threat in general, even thou RS wasn't struggling on st threat as much as warriors before the changes, there is occasions I saw on pug runs and had few times aggro lose on burst dps or healings happening, specially when a sab pops all his cooldowns and burst around 8 to 10k momentarily (like a second) dps on target .

    Rift Disturbance change basically bring almost nothing on this issue, since on prime global damage reduced compared to live damage output generation to dps is like 10% lesser, on prime tank lose like 95% ish lesser dps than top dps while on live this is around 85 to 90%.

    So this was causing more problems for threat generation specially against dps who pops around 60% increased damage buffs total with constant bursts or healers with high amount of burst healings even with overhealing due to global healing most like not touched.

    Why Rift Disturbance change brings nothing is spamming it literally causing already energy starved RS more energy starved also if this change applied for making RS easily generating ae threat making planar splash in question, since RD's damage is still lesser than planar strike in planar splash mode and planar splash does around almost same damage as RD, so why would RS should use RD while its energy is more than planar strike and not giving a single combo point at all which is causing more energy starvation and making mostly hard time for using GS and WotP even prior to this change because of starvation most RS tanks used their finishers even with 1 combo point and barely anyone used them with 5 combo points.

    Since RD's threat generation increased and datamining shows aggro multiplier changed to 6 from 5, while both planar strike and planar splash's aggro multiplier are still 4.

    So increasing aggro multiplier of planar strike and splash to 4.5 or 5 would help this issues on prime or giving RD to combo point generation ability like 2cp would solve energy starvation issue and proper use reason for RS tanks, getting energy starved and spamming ability for no combo points is really frustrating.
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  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    I guess I am not seeing the same issues you are. Like you, I struggled with aggro prior to the change on larger AOE packs (very rarely ST).

    Keep in mind that our threat is based off of endurance so make sure you are stacking that above all else.

    My AOE opener is pretty simple.

    Port> 2pt Guarded Steel > Planar strike macro > 1pt wrath of the planes > RD spam

    The only time I use the planar strike macro is when I need a CP to refresh GS or WOTP, the rest of the time it is RD spam. Make sure that you are also porting every 8 seconds to keep up your aoe splash.

    This has been sufficient to overcome FK healing and top sab dps aggro. If you have questions feel free to look me up in game: Feistus
    Last edited by Thrakazog; 04-16-2018 at 05:37 AM.

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    I'm quite the same exact opening as you Thrakazog, but on RR or dungeon i can't keep aggro of the mobs without talking as soon as a Sab or MA pops a CD. I need a lead of at least 3 good seconds in order to keep my aggro.

    I tried both DPS gear for max damage output and therefor threat and Tank gear for max endurance. I just can't keep aggro on a Sab that burst above 3k dps in opening.
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    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrakazog View Post
    I guess I am not seeing the same issues you are. Like you, I struggled with aggro prior to the change on larger AOE packs (very rarely ST).

    Keep in mind that our threat is based off of endurance so make sure you are stacking that above all else.

    My AOE opener is pretty simple.

    Port> 2pt Guarded Steel > Planar strike macro > 1pt wrath of the planes > RD spam

    The only time I use the planar strike macro is when I need a CP to refresh GS or WOTP, the rest of the time it is RD spam. Make sure that you are also porting every 8 seconds to keep up your aoe splash.

    This has been sufficient to overcome FK healing and top sab dps aggro. If you have questions feel free to look me up in game: Feistus
    Well mate seems you didn't get what I was saying, at the moment I'm not saying this for bragging but I've one of the best RS tank sets and selfbuffed im at 829 endu, 265 guard etc. I never struggled with aoe threat before the change as well, like you can see from my other posts. While RS change kinda helps making ae threat more in scenario, you will still lose it to high burst or high healing which means you need to do insta taunt. So we need more reliable threat generation and like I said why any tank who is generating aggro via damage based abilities, losing it on such situation culprit is global damage reduction.

    If you keep spamming RD always you will starve energy on any point and if any new add spawns like 3rd boss on RotF you will lose aggro on that moment to any burst damage as well, specially if you are energy starved and dps did very high burst on them momentarily they come up.

    So no matter what we need real changes, warrior got same kind of changes and their abilities either giving attack point if they are builder or pacts if they are finishers, plus they require 22 energy, considering warriors need 3 attack points max unlike rogue's 5combo points, RD should give 2 combo points and needs to get reduced energy cost or planar strike needs to get some threat love like I said on my main post.

    Also would like to see you overcoming my or any top dps rogues opening burst on any raid rift or boss with that rotation without using "taunt" and this goes for any tank not a RS only, even clerics who don't know maintaining easiest aggro on game losing it on any high burst.
    Last edited by aileen; 04-16-2018 at 03:07 PM.
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    What you need to do is have a mage use Misdirection with 4 sab bursts going on, once a minute.
    Then press no other abilities and still never lose aggro.

    edit: THIS ISN'T SERIOUS. I don't know if this would actually happen but from reading the tooltip and knowing how hard sab dps burst, it sounds like a possibility.
    Last edited by Artifa; 04-16-2018 at 03:36 PM.
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    Default Rift Stalker is constantly energy starved with holding packs.

    I tank as rift stalker and while tanking large groups in order to keep aggro i need to spam Rift Disturbance which after a few seconds i can't continue to even make an attack whenever my global cooldown is up. Extremely frustrating.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifa View Post
    What you need to do is have a mage use Misdirection with 4 sab bursts going on, once a minute.
    Then press no other abilities and still never lose aggro.

    edit: THIS ISN'T SERIOUS. I don't know if this would actually happen but from reading the tooltip and knowing how hard sab dps burst, it sounds like a possibility.
    Misdirection works as long as you use it on correct guy, if person you used bursted 1 or 2 seconds later, your target will still lose but still using such cooldown to maintain aggro against highest burst is somekind of unwanted activity in terms of normal working threat of tanks. Since there is actually not really snap aggro going on same goes for splitting bosses etc, if there is cleric tank spamming dol or mage tank used misdirection on raid member who was bursting not his target causing such problems etc.
    Last edited by aileen; 04-16-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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    Sorry to distract from your thread, Aileen.

    Misdirection reads that it buffs the raid member and his whole group. I would take that as, not the whole raid (could be wrong) but only the 5 party members in the specific group, so I would think using on a group of 5 sabs would steal the burst from all of them (but not the other raid members). It's very overpowered.

    Healers over-threating is usually more of a sustained threat from constantly healing, as such I don't think they would provide as much burst threat transfer unless they purposely were using their full heals and other major CDs specifically for this purpose.

    The point of my whole derail was to point out the vast discrepancy between the tanking abilities. Mages have 2 abilities to transfer threat from party (1m CD) and a single person (30s CD) while now it seems rogues and previously warriors seem to have struggled at times with threat gen. That's where i was going with it.

    You're right that if used improperly, with the target of Misdirection bursting a different target than the one you want threat on, you won't gain any benefit.

    Now, about the rogue tanking stuff...
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  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifa View Post
    Sorry to distract from your thread, Aileen.

    Misdirection reads that it buffs the raid member and his whole group. I would take that as, not the whole raid (could be wrong) but only the 5 party members in the specific group, so I would think using on a group of 5 sabs would steal the burst from all of them (but not the other raid members). It's very overpowered.

    Healers over-threating is usually more of a sustained threat from constantly healing, as such I don't think they would provide as much burst threat transfer unless they purposely were using their full heals and other major CDs specifically for this purpose.

    The point of my whole derail was to point out the vast discrepancy between the tanking abilities. Mages have 2 abilities to transfer threat from party (1m CD) and a single person (30s CD) while now it seems rogues and previously warriors seem to have struggled at times with threat gen. That's where i was going with it.

    You're right that if used improperly, with the target of Misdirection bursting a different target than the one you want threat on, you won't gain any benefit.

    Now, about the rogue tanking stuff...
    Well main problem is snap aggro but not sustaining threat gen on mid fight, as a dps I get aggro from cleric tanks, rogue tanks and warrior tanks on raid rifts, nowadays I'm trying to not burst and gimp my dps, if i don't know the guy who is tanking this stuff, because average john doe on pugs rarely notice when they lose aggro and doesn't taunt immediately back on most situation, one of the main reason is lack of snap aggro, cleric tanks rarely have this issue but it still happens.

    While main problem is that losing energy like crazy and not getting any cp also is another side effect of this situation, RS always energy starved but RS spamming takes it to another degree :/
    Last edited by aileen; 04-17-2018 at 02:16 AM.
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    Simple solution, tell your dps to give you 2 seconds. Don't pull all of the mobs to the boss and call the game broken because you can't keep agro on 30 mobs. Tanking in this game is some of the easiest I have ever seen.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragun View Post
    Simple solution, tell your dps to give you 2 seconds. Don't pull all of the mobs to the boss and call the game broken because you can't keep agro on 30 mobs. Tanking in this game is some of the easiest I have ever seen.
    Problem is not giving 2 seconds, if this is suggestion you didn't get what I'm saying sab bursts starts on 5th or 6th second of fight and they do momentarily 10k dps on that period and all tanks I saw always lose aggro on such high burst without secretly using taunt in your rotation there is no way you can keep it.

    Solution is fixing threat, like DH last boss when you take seaspawn there is no way you can threat on that because of that dmg reduction debuff from seaspawn is stacking with secret prime debuff for global damage reduction and making you not able to do damage on him.
    Last edited by aileen; 04-18-2018 at 02:44 PM.
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