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Thread: can Prime class balance be separate from live?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default can Prime class balance be separate from live?

    Prime is an entirely different environment than Live. I implore you to treat the balance of the two servers differently.

    Most returning Prime players have played RIFT at or around launch and are now returning for a second round. Whether its for a short splash back or diving in completely, whether we aim to rip through experts, or raids with friends, or wardrobe -- it doesn't matter -- the player base of the two servers varies greatly. We who are willing to pay $15 or $30 for a re-release of a 7 year old MMO are not the same people that want to spend money on xp potions or a $250 item in the cash shop.

    I've bought RIFT twice now and am enjoying it greatly the second time around, with friends new and old. One common concern is that there may be a lack of focus on class balance for Prime.

    aside -- It makes sense to not alter characters too much when players may have spend a lot of time and real money improving them over the years. Prime is a chance to correct or at least attempt to correct any balancing concerns for those of us who are making a fresh start here.


    So my question is. Aside from already announced stuff coming in a patch soon:
    • warrior pet improvement to help early leveling
    • mystic archer 30pt ability disabled, possibly replaced in the future?

    Will this server continue to have forked balancing which keeps it separate from Live? Please?

    We know the exp needed to level has been increased, and that's cool. There are probably other balance changes as well. Just focusing on soul / callings: What other kind of tuning and/or balance changes do Prime players want to see?
    Last edited by Artifa; 03-12-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifa View Post
    Prime is an entirely different environment than Live. I implore you to treat the balance of the two servers differently.

    Most returning Prime players have played RIFT at or around launch and are now returning for a second round. Whether its for a short splash back or diving in completely, whether we aim to rip through experts, or raids with friends, or wardrobe -- it doesn't matter -- the player base of the two servers varies greatly. We who are willing to pay $15 or $30 for a re-release of a 7 year old MMO are not the same people that want to spend money on xp potions or a $250 item in the cash shop.

    I've bought RIFT twice now and am enjoying it greatly the second time around, with friends new and old. One common concern is that there may be a lack of focus on class balance for Prime.

    aside -- It makes sense to not alter characters too much when players may have spend a lot of time and real money improving them over the years. Prime is a chance to correct or at least attempt to correct any balancing concerns for those of us who are making a fresh start here.


    So my question is. Aside from already announced stuff coming in a patch soon:
    • warrior pet improvement to help early leveling
    • mystic archer 30pt ability disabled, possibly replaced in the future?

    Will this server continue to have forked balancing which keeps it separate from Live? Please?

    We know the exp needed to level has been increased, and that's cool. There are probably other balance changes as well. Just focusing on soul / callings: What other kind of tuning and/or balance changes do Prime players want to see?
    The answer to your questions can be located by reading the exciting patch notes for Prime's first patch. Read all about Mr. Kittens & more here:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ml#post5343320
    Voldeth FixWarriors - Sin Filled Afterlife - Guild Leader

  3. #3
    Isp
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    Trion does not have resources to support separate versions for Prime and Live, so only small changes possible which don't ruin Live too much.
    New player? Apply code TD2TGJH9WGYYLEGC2EMJ or use the link for some free stuff.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Indeed, please be aware Prime was promised to be a minor touched server, where resources would not be taken away from Live. Just bug fixes and balancing of experience or exploits.

    Admittedly I don't believe this for a second and feel the Dev team thinks Prime is their new baby, but still, they won't be balancing below 50 content, that would be completely inefficient.

    Potentially some balances at 50 but I doubt it again, because before they're ready to do something about it, level 60 will be opening.

    It's taken 6 months for any significant balance changes to happen in Live, so don't be hopeful for Prime.
    Last edited by Refuge; 03-18-2018 at 04:56 AM.
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  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Anything done on Prime will affect Live and same goes the other way. The way they did this, Prime seems to be fecthing all its data from Live server stuff so I don't think it's possible. Which really don't matter considering 2-3 months from now and SL will be released and so on. The rate at which expansion will release will be faster than the rate they can balance everything. On top of that if let's say current balance we have is called Balance A and then they were to fix stuff for 50, let's call it Balance B, but then SL releases and Balance A was just fine for SL, then all the work that was put in Balance B was done for nothing. Since its a fast progressing server I'd rather have them work the stupid stuff/bugs that's really hurting like the 2-3 second input delay or put more man power behind remaking original HK vs balancing stuff that might be alright in 2-3 months when the next expansion is out.

    I understand the frustration that some classes are OP while others are garbage, but its the same on Live, you always have a top dps and a bottom dps no matter what, the only difference is that the class on the bottom might be different than what it is on Live. Know that the dominating class will most likely change every expansion or so most likely as more soul points are available.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    The 3/21 patch proves that, even if only in small ways, Live can differ from Prime.

    On live notes, there is no disabling of MA and Sab soul gift (1% dmg per point spent) or Elemental Barrage)

    On prime notes, those are disabled.

    Here's hoping Trion can continue to make balance changes like this when necessary.
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  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokta View Post
    Anything done on Prime will affect Live and same goes the other way. The way they did this, Prime seems to be fecthing all its data from Live server stuff so I don't think it's possible. Which really don't matter considering 2-3 months from now and SL will be released and so on. The rate at which expansion will release will be faster than the rate they can balance everything. On top of that if let's say current balance we have is called Balance A and then they were to fix stuff for 50, let's call it Balance B, but then SL releases and Balance A was just fine for SL, then all the work that was put in Balance B was done for nothing. Since its a fast progressing server I'd rather have them work the stupid stuff/bugs that's really hurting like the 2-3 second input delay or put more man power behind remaking original HK vs balancing stuff that might be alright in 2-3 months when the next expansion is out.

    I understand the frustration that some classes are OP while others are garbage, but its the same on Live, you always have a top dps and a bottom dps no matter what, the only difference is that the class on the bottom might be different than what it is on Live. Know that the dominating class will most likely change every expansion or so most likely as more soul points are available.
    They can EASILY add if statements to check which server is calling for data and then send different data.

    Also, the newest patch proves that they can balance seperately.

  8. #8
    Telaran Sarrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isp View Post
    Trion does not have resources to support separate versions for Prime and Live, so only small changes possible which don't ruin Live too much.
    If people stick with Prime, they are going to figure out where there bread is buttered and i hope it's with the sub server and more eventually. I redo this every year if i get some sweet balance with classes....and new content
    Rift PRIME - "It's still cooking, buey!"

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I get it, they might not have the resources to balance Prime, but look man, RIFT Live is as good as dead, RIFT Prime could revive the game if TRION takes good care of it like a new baby. From what it means, RIFT Prime has a lot of lackluster classes that need major buffs at low levels, and while I understand they focus on balancing things out at max level, that type of thinking will KILL low level Warfronts (PvP). Buff those lackluster classes TRION, especially Warriors.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarrath View Post
    If people stick with Prime, they are going to figure out where there bread is buttered and i hope it's with the sub server and more eventually.
    For that to happen, they will have to show intention of taking some brave decisions. No matter how long it will take to implement them. The problem is not that of a simple balance for damage or heals. The problem is that the mentality that made rift a great game in the first place, is absent. Either this server will be the chance to redevelop the class system from where it went wrong, or it will be dead in less than 3 months. Right now I have no desire to play and not because my class (mage) might do less damage than another class, but because its not fun. We need hybrid mentality, high skill builds, real diversity between classes and not all can do everything and a form of separation between pve and pvp. Half or more of the post-SL souls shoudlnt even exist in a p2p server.
    Trion has to understand that the tide has turned. You either go with full p2w or with a quality game that attracts a somewhat small but dedicated crowd. You cant go in-between. Right now, the only quality pve games out there are WoW and FF. Rift could fill a hole, but it needs a lot of work and I doubt it will happen.
    Last edited by Naushika; 03-23-2018 at 01:27 AM.

  11. #11
    Gox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifa View Post
    The 3/21 patch proves that, even if only in small ways, Live can differ from Prime.

    On live notes, there is no disabling of MA and Sab soul gift (1% dmg per point spent) or Elemental Barrage)

    On prime notes, those are disabled.

    Here's hoping Trion can continue to make balance changes like this when necessary.

    Basically it appears Trion has some control over server stuff. Like XP and having abilities on or off. The latest "balance" change basically showed what they can do. They cannot actually balance or tune stuff they can only balance by turning stuff on or off. This while can kill off specs really cannot be used to buff or do anything outside of using a sledgehammer.

    The good is this can break completely over powered stuff but it will not balance the game.
    As you can see with the sab and ma nerfs, there is jus tnew bs/op just comes up and since Trion does not have the tools or resources to really balance stuff we can just hope they kill off the super OP and the game is somewhat playable/fun.

  12. #12
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    The fact that they have only disabled things does not necessarily mean they -can- only disable things, they so far haven't decided to go past that. The XP modifiers are actually proof that they can, those were fine tuned changes made only to Vigil, even if it was a globally applied modifier versus soul/calling specifics adjustments that would help things.

    The sledgehammer thing for class balance... lol yes, totally, so far. Hopefully they agree, and use a finer instrument next time. Balance is important to competitive players, pls do something Trion.

    Subs may depend on it...
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  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    They definitely do need to do a balance sweep on Live/Prime. There's no way on Earth they can leave Warriors the way they are or Sentinel being top DPS>

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