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Thread: Sab is OP

  1. #16
    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    I was not aware at the time that Sab was so important for higher level builds on live. Good to know, that definitely makes my suggestion a bad idea. I was merely looking at it isolated as-is on Prime.
    Yeah that's why using the same trees as live is going to be such a headache to balance. Hopefully they end up switching to an alternate client or something so Prime can be worked on without affecting the other servers but that seems unlikely given the balance schedule on live.

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  2. #17
    Rift Disciple Celdra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dademore View Post
    Just to add to this a bit.

    My friend is VERY good at playing a Rogue. Mostly Assassin, Tactician, or Bard. On Prime he has been nearly kicked from groups because he does not like playing Sab. Sab is so OP right now that even an extremely poor player can out DPS anyone with 2-3 buttons.

    This should be addressed.
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  3. #18
    Shadowlander mattlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celdra View Post
    By definition, your friend is not a very good rogue.
    Now that was funny!

  4. #19
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    I was not aware at the time that Sab was so important for higher level builds on live. Good to know, that definitely makes my suggestion a bad idea. I was merely looking at it isolated as-is on Prime.
    Yea like someone else said thats why its bad idea to use same soul trees as live and what makes me worry since most 61 abilities used to be 51 point abilities on vanilla most souls will not get love and people wont reach important cooldowns like flaring power so I think we are forced to use beastmasters on raid setup too.

    Once balancing souls start, I can pretty much say live will be much more funnier than prime considering current issues on prime makes it more grindier than live too but anyway, what should be done is not sab nerf but making other souls in par with it specially considering sab is aoe soul and doing more single target dps than supposed souls.
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  5. #20
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    They wont be changing RIFT suddenly because some level 20 thinks a class is OP, so why even bother posting about this stuff? Look at the tree, it gets its mechanics early while everyone else is getting it later, surprise it comes out of the gate strong.

    They likely should have adjusted the trees to fit the level 50 cap, but instead they were cheap/lazy and went with a mirror of live. Do you really think what matters in Prime is going to result in balance changes that will also impact live RIFT which has a developed end game and more appropriate to balance around (which by the sounds of it they haven't bothered doing in some time)?

    Stop complaining about this stuff and just enjoy the game for what it is.
    Last edited by Nuum; 03-13-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  6. #21
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Sab has been the most influential off soul since it's rework in NMT. First it was Crouching Raptor Hidden Dynamite (Rangersab), then Sabsin, 1 button MM, NBsab, etc. 11 Saboteur gets you Frag Bomb, Detonate, Satchel Charge, and Time Bomb which counters one of the Rogue callings biggest failings, weak combo point builders. I hated it and raised the issue when Sab was on pts because I saw where it was heading but its now been in game for years and is crucial to a lot of what Rogue uses.

    Its an issue on prime because Sab gets its primary tools very early (what I mentioned from 11 point sab) and the mid to later teirs of the tree are very weak. Sab only has 2 root abilities above 44 (Battle Chemist and Bottomless Bandolier), one of which is basically useless (Bandolier.) So the Sab soul alone is useable straight out of the starter zone basically and is completely functional by level 44 (Annihilation Bomb root.) The talents you pass over in the tree are also functionally useless to dps anyway. But by the time you hit 50/60/65/70 the other souls catch it and surpass it for single target. But of course it is still great aoe because hey, its an aoe soul and was the last to be touched so it was intended to be useful.

    I don't think people realize how much of an issue the live and prime servers sharing updates is when it comes to balance. You have souls like Sab that get an early start and don't suffer as much from losing legendaries so they do very well sub 50. Then on the other side you have souls like Nightblade that loses Ebon Blades (54 root), Dark Descent (61 point root), legendary Hellfire Blades, legendary Dusk Stike, and the Eternal weapon proc which makes it absolutely unusable at level 50. Nerfing sab for the sake of sub level 30 gameplay on Prime screws up both live servers and level 50 Prime gameplay just like buffing Nightblade for level cap on Prime would make Rogues even stronger on live.

    As long as live and Prime stay partnered any balance changes (not just Sab) need to be considered extremely carefully as it is almost impossible to change something for level 20/30/50/70 that doesn't have a wildly different impact across the other levels. Anyone that thinks its easy, or "the devs should just do x" is dead wrong. And I am not saying this is ideal, but when that is the situation you always balance for where players will spend the majority of their time which is at level cap.
    Last edited by Stihl; 03-13-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gox View Post
    We will see how it fairs at level 50 but its OP at lower levels but no real reason to nerf if it
    I disagree, this is going to be a grind to 50 for some casual players and even some hardcore, Why should one class dominate in everything, surely this is an issue and needs to be resolved.

    Mot aoe grinding groups want rogue for the dmg, most groups want a rogue tank over a warrior, most groups would like a bard over a chloro. So why do we have four classes when whilst leveling up theyre unwanted?

  8. #23
    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    I've had clerics match and surpass my dps in FC trash farm runs (level 30ish) which is almost entirely AOE. Whereas in the earlier dungeons I was sometimes doing as much damage as the rest of the group combined. So while sab dps is obviously very high early on, it seems that at least some other souls scale better midgame for AOE. It wouldn't surprise me at all if sab is only used as a secondary soul at 50 since they don't really gain anything later on.

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  9. #24
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    It's cute how the mainstream crowd screams about Sab, when Mystic Archer does double DPS, has heals/sustain, their attacks can't be missed or dodged and a few other bits and pieces

    But Sab is OP, because it's good in WF and isn't behind a 2k planarite wall so most know about it most.
    Last edited by whiskiz; 03-14-2018 at 07:12 AM.

  10. #25
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskiz View Post
    It's cute how all the casual players scream about Sab, when Mystic Archer does double DPS, has heals/sustain, their attacks can't be missed or dodged and a few other bits and pieces - but lets all scream about Sab because it's so mainstream amirite?
    Same goes for Defiler.
    Really all the new souls should of been restricted to Level 50 before you can purchase them.

    But still Saboteur is worst.
    You can easily kill an npc 3 levels above you, kill 3 players in pvp before they can kill you and all it takes is at least 4 points in Saboteur.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 03-14-2018 at 07:17 AM.

  11. #26
    Plane Walker Faolon's Avatar
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    This kind of thing makes it feel just like launch again.

    I remember people whining about Sab back then, too. Good times.

  12. #27
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Great idea. No one is close to 50 or end game content on prime and sab plays fine on live but lets start making knee jerk balance changes to a soul 2 days into the sub 25 leveling experience because sab gets most of its primary mechanics earlier than most souls.

    Couldn't agree more. I don't play rogue and couldn't agree me. Sab outdps the **** of every group I got in when there was one in AOE. But that's low level ****, who cares. They might not scale that well we just don't know

  13. #28
    Rift Chaser Rolien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokta View Post
    Couldn't agree more. I don't play rogue and couldn't agree me. Sab outdps the **** of every group I got in when there was one in AOE. But that's low level ****, who cares. They might not scale that well we just don't know
    The problem is that "low level" stuff is a major thing at the moment and I actually ran into a guy who started harassing one of our DPS for playing Marks instead of Sab.

    Sab low level just does to much damage and it really brings out the ******* in some people.

  14. #29
    Champion CDagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolien View Post
    The problem is that "low level" stuff is a major thing at the moment and I actually ran into a guy who started harassing one of our DPS for playing Marks instead of Sab.

    Sab low level just does to much damage and it really brings out the ******* in some people.
    To be frank, that's what the ignore and/or kick functions are for. Rebalancing an entire soul because it's the only Rogue soul that functions in a semi-coherent fashion pre-36 because people are dicks in low level dungeons is kind of an odd stance to take. Realistically, the only thing that will lead to is the same kind of dicks harassing you for being a rogue in a low level dungeon, instead of not using sab.

    This thread though is loaded with hyperbole and some serious misplaced blame.
    Last edited by CDagger; 03-15-2018 at 05:49 PM.

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