Can mages PLEASE have the rogue dev for 1 month for PVP changes?

[ChrisN]

the thread is not stating that rogues are underpowered in pvp, you know.

do you play team fortress 2 or battlefield bad company 2?
i would love to crush your ego :P

You can't crush what you can't handle.

[Effeil]

Meh, our Mage dev has always been one of the most active community wise, but he's been mostly MIA for a while, working on the massive mage rework that expansion will be?

Although, you can't expect big changes for 1.10, the expansion will be a massive rework for mages already so it's useless to change something that will be changed 1-2 months later...

UNLESS, actually, they implement some changes from the expansion in the current trees of 1.10, but I highly doubt this will happen.

[Raen Ryong]

It's not abuse. Sabs do decent even without the HK crystal (they are also paper thin and do not survive well). The problem with sabs is that people huddle in groups, and then when they see all those sab debuffs they do nothing (as in not cleansing, not los-ing, not spreading out, not standing in circles on the ground). You will fail at pvp and pve until you learn situational awareness. The problem with pvp, however, is people cry cry cry cry cry cry cry until unnecessary nerfs happen.

SPEAKING OF WHICH (and back on topic) mages do need more love. They don't have nearly the amount of viable pvp souls as the other classes do. When you see a mage in WF it's probably a pyro/dom. Sometimes chloro/dom. What else can a mage run?

Poor mages

Sab is also pretty strong 1v1 as long as you don't get completely surprised.

I'm fine with mage getting buffs as long as /dom sees some kind of nerf. Squirrel is ridiculous.

[Velkane]

The problem with sabs is that people huddle in groups, and then when they see all those sab debuffs they do nothing (as in not cleansing, not los-ing, not spreading out, not standing in circles on the ground).

Attempting to cleanse any debuff a Rogue applies is an exercise in futility. Rogues have a 1s GCD. Mages (with cures) and Clerics have 1.5s GCDs. There are a couple abilities that cure everything in a single GCD, but they have long CDs; I know I always save that ability for myself.

You make a valid point in regards to spreading out, but there are certain areas where that's simply not possible. You can't spread out that much on the Bridge -- it's a choke point. For all involved. And most games are won/lost through control of the Bridge, and thus control of the Church (and its stones).

And obviously those aren't the answers, because if they were, every other class would be capable of capitalizing on "stupid" players and pull those kind of AOE DPS numbers. They cannot. Clearly Rogues have a substantial AOE DPS advantage, and they really should not.

[Macadami]

We all are expecting a major overhaul for mages in the expansion, it'd be really sad if it didn't happen. Mages are fine in pve finally and because of that i won't switch mains or anything, but no substantial changes and you better believe ill be rolling an alt rogue; the mage we wish were.

To the guy obviously playing 51 lock....yeah 1vs1 using every cooldown avaialable to you while there's are down you probably do ok. When your cooldowns are not up, there is no chance. I recommend all mages creating a rogue, warrior, and cleric on the PTS to see just how screwed we are and have been. Hell even a rogue alt on a live server to level 10 or so shows you just how bad we have it.

Good mages can put in hard work and get the job done with really only pyro dom as their option. You can survive as chlorodom but thats all you can do, its the trollicar of mages, your heals and damage are pathetic. 51 pyro specs rely on procs, as do most 51 chloro specs. RNG does not nor will it ever equal skill and because of that unreliability the builds themselves fall vrry short from the offerings of other callings.

[Misun]

Attempting to cleanse any debuff a Rogue applies is an exercise in futility. Rogues have a 1s GCD. Mages (with cures) and Clerics have 1.5s GCDs. There are a couple abilities that cure everything in a single GCD, but they have long CDs; I know I always save that ability for myself.

And don't forget about rapid setup; 30 second cooldown on it.

http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/815585515/Rapid-Setup

I can't cleanse fast enough, that's for sure.

[Velkane]

I recommend all mages creating a rogue, warrior, and cleric on the PTS to see just how screwed we are and have been.

Have you actually tried a DPS Cleric? Against an equally geared Pyro/Dom, I can only win if there's terrain to LOS them with and let my DoTs (SH & Vex) tick on them for 15s first before I try to get a kill. I do have a better chance vs. Mages than Rogues or Warriors, though. I can't beat an equal geared Rogue or Warrior.

Clerics only seem okay because in group PvP we can stay in the background, jump-casting Vex, SH, Spiritual Deficiency and Tyranny to pull strong-looking DPS numbers. But 1v1, or even 5v5, Clerics are pretty bad on the DPS front. HPS-wise we're second to none, though.

[Macadami]

Have you actually tried a DPS Cleric? Against an equally geared Pyro/Dom, I can only win if there's terrain to LOS them with and let my DoTs (SH & Vex) tick on them for 15s first before I try to get a kill. I do have a better chance vs. Mages than Rogues or Warriors, though. I can't beat an equal geared Rogue or Warrior.

Clerics only seem okay because in group PvP we can stay in the background, jump-casting Vex, SH, Spiritual Deficiency and Tyranny to pull strong-looking DPS numbers. But 1v1, or even 5v5, Clerics are pretty bad on the DPS front. HPS-wise we're second to none, though.

That is correct, but how many healing builds and cab variants do you have that hold their own? Mages are a dps soul with 1 dps build that holds it's own under the right circumstances. Clerics are primarily a healing soul that can do competitve dps in a wafront.

[Kaelani]

Sabs do decent even without the HK crystal (they are also paper thin and do not survive well).

I had to laugh at this.
Didn't you look at the bitmap?
http://i.imgur.com/QodQN.jpg

Check out the Sabos, and compare damage done to damage received.
Right from the top of the list, which is the first player to take more damage than he dealt?

A Cleric... what a shock.
Poor Sabos

[ChrisN]

I had to laugh at this.
Didn't you look at the bitmap?
http://i.imgur.com/QodQN.jpg

Check out the Sabos, and compare damage done to damage received.
Right from the top of the list, which is the first player to take more damage than he dealt?

A Cleric... what a shock.
Poor Sabos

Cleric should be healing. Just sayin

[Effeil]

Have you actually tried a DPS Cleric? Against an equally geared Pyro/Dom, I can only win if there's terrain to LOS them with and let my DoTs (SH & Vex) tick on them for 15s first before I try to get a kill. I do have a better chance vs. Mages than Rogues or Warriors, though. I can't beat an equal geared Rogue or Warrior.

You'll do better vs clerics and mages because you'll be able to cast abilities. Current pvp state favors the warrior/rogue pain train because they have absolutely nothing to set up or cast, or easily get into melee. When you have specs that requires 4-6 sec of setup (excluding broken sabs), and you have a monkey charging/blinking and spamming their macro quick burst in your face mixed with CC and interrupt, it's impossible to cast or survive long enough to make the setup worthy of using. Setting something up with 1.5 sec gcd is extremely hard

Saying a class is fine because we have 1 good soul, pyromancer, is pretty stupid. Pyro/dom is going to get the nerf bat for sure, gimmick spec making a defensive soul offensive.

[Ianto Jones]

SPEAKING OF WHICH (and back on topic) mages do need more love. They don't have nearly the amount of viable pvp souls as the other classes do. When you see a mage in WF it's probably a pyro/dom. Sometimes chloro/dom. What else can a mage run?

Poor mages

muffin button??

[Synergis]

Sabs wouldnt be so bad if high explosive was cleansable.

Clerics are the only balanced class in the game.

[Anthony01]

You'll do better vs clerics and mages because you'll be able to cast abilities. Current pvp state favors the warrior/rogue pain train because they have absolutely nothing to set up or cast, or easily get into melee. When you have specs that requires 4-6 sec of setup (excluding broken sabs), and you have a monkey charging/blinking and spamming their macro quick burst in your face mixed with CC and interrupt, it's impossible to cast or survive long enough to make the setup worthy of using. Setting something up with 1.5 sec gcd is extremely hard

My biggest gripe with PVP in Rift is the lack of diminishing returns on Gap Closers.

Why is it, we can cast two gap openers (Push Back/Immobolize/Snare/ect) and our target is immune to anything, but they can chain warp/rush about 5 different times without any sort of punishment?

If I even manage to make a little bit of a space between my melee targets, Rogues either have their blink abilities or ranged attacks; and Warriors either have their blink/charge/semi-ranged attacks. Casters are royally screwed in a game where it roots you for 1.5 seconds to do some damage.

[Primalthirst]

This is the WORST suggestion ever on these forums.
I literally refuse to believe that you are asking to trade Kervik for Ailion.