You want Trion to close the gap between low rank and r50?

[Cygfa]

Ok assuming the 36 has approx 25k PA, a full armor set with crystal, and no CQ trinket. I have 56k PA, the upgraded armor including weapon, the upgraded syn crystal, and a CQ trinket. I'll exclude the essences. Isn't that a significant difference in vengence, AP, dps, and endurance? I'm no expert, and I'm not trolling, but it seems like a significant gap to me.

I started Rift again a few weeks ago. I left as r4 or whatever it was in 1.2, translated into r21 when I logged in. I was wearing mostly repudiator (now t0) set with a couple leftover cavalier pieces (that doesn't exist anymore, lol). No PA, syn, seal, trinket or unseen rep. under 500p total cash. Fun stuff!

Basically it's a huge gear/rank disparity (r40 in only half r30 gear, 10k PA lol) that I have to now fix. Wish it wouldn't take so long (with wf) or be so laggy/boring (conquest).

I can imagine it's just as bad for fresh 50's although they get a longer 'rank buffer' or bolster zone during which to get geared up (still doesn't help when there's not enough people queing, gg premade ****). I, however, almost always get thrown in with r40-50 and get my face mashed all day long, yum

[V1rul3n7]

Perhaps you ran into a level 50? A level 35 taking on a level 50 is not going to end well. Once you're fully geared you'll be fine.

I am rank 50, full armor, missing neck 2xrings 1x wand + new pvp sigil and trinket.

I just got the rank 50 staff.

I know my **** dude! ;)

[V1rul3n7]

Oh and i didn't exploit, i saw it happen for like 1 min during a match and did like 2 devouring shadows AoE's on the spawn just for the lulz.

I dont agree with the exploit at ALL.

[Lyrria]

OMG whatever happened to WORK FOR IT?

[kronous]

OMG whatever happened to WORK FOR IT?

Why work when u can exploit with trions approval?

[Kyera]

Ok assuming the 36 has approx 25k PA, a full armor set with crystal, and no CQ trinket. I have 56k PA, the upgraded armor including weapon, the upgraded syn crystal, and a CQ trinket. I'll exclude the essences. Isn't that a significant difference in vengence, AP, dps, and endurance? I'm no expert, and I'm not trolling, but it seems like a significant gap to me.

The only major difference is the P50 weapons. That's it.

I'm not saying there isn't a gap. It's just not significant.

[Ajax1114]

OMG whatever happened to WORK FOR IT?

"Now that work is over, I'm gonna go home and spend a couple hours on rift to relax and unwind. I sure hope it's stressful and feels as much like a job as possible. After all, that's what I'm paying for."

[Kyera]

"Now that work is over, I'm gonna go home and spend a couple hours on rift to relax and unwind. I sure hope it's stressful and feels as much like a job as possible. After all, that's what I'm paying for."

People do understand they are playing an MMORPG, right?

I mean, it's not like it's a genre secret that they're time consuming and have the highest "work" component out of any genre (besides, perhaps, RTS/TBS).

[Doogies]

You are playing a MMO and not call of duty. A big part of a MMO is gear progression.

Gear progression has no place in PvP, as it is a PvE mechanic. Forcing that mechanic onto competitive play causes gear and time invested to override skill and wit. I am not aware of any other competitive venue with such a high barrier between skill and achievement. MMO gear-based PvP is anathema to e-sports. ArenaNet's founders realized this back at Blizzard and it inspired them in their unique take on PvP gear in Guild Wars.

[EvanX]

Gear progression has no place in PvP, as it is a PvE mechanic. Forcing that mechanic onto competitive play causes gear and time invested to override skill and wit. I am not aware of any other competitive venue with such a high barrier between skill and achievement. MMO gear-based PvP is anathema to e-sports. ArenaNet's founders realized this back at Blizzard and it inspired them in their unique take on PvP gear in Guild Wars.

So why is progression anethema to PVP and not PVE. Seems that your logic would apply to both. You saying skill and wit aren't as important in PVE?

Maybe progression is part of the overall experience?

[TheGrinnz]

So why is progression anethema to PVP and not PVE. Seems that your logic would apply to both. You saying skill and wit aren't as important in PVE?

Maybe progression is part of the overall experience?

Because PvE is about progressing your character, and PvP is about perfecting your character.

[Cygfa]

So why is progression anethema to PVP and not PVE. Seems that your logic would apply to both. You saying skill and wit aren't as important in PVE?

Maybe progression is part of the overall experience?

except that, the goal then BECOMES the gear, rather than the experience of getting said gear. There is nothing else currently in Rift that you can look forward to, and rank means nothing when it's just a linear grind without 'gear checks' like in pve progression raids. See the arena thread for more thoughts on this :P


this should make sense when you look at conquest, and how many people actually play it 'because it's fun' (last night notwithstanding wink wink nudge nudge <3)

[Kyera]

Because PvE is about progressing your character, and PvP is about perfecting your character.

Thanks for the clarification, Oxford.

[EvanX]

Because PvE is about progressing your character, and PvP is about perfecting your character.

Is that a rule?

My point is that it seems arbitrary. I PVP and I enjoyed the progression process. I also enjoy running premades which has nothing to do with progression. I personally would miss progression if they scrapped it.

[Cygfa]

"GEAR"

I think this is the main reason we have p2play MMOs. MMOs need character development, which in pve occurs through unlocking new tiers of gear and content in a stepwise manner. Things are only 'hard' because your gear prevents them from being 'easy' for the current scenario; however all the fights are essentially variations of the same scripted thing: kill red stuff, don't stand in stuff, click the good stuff, make green bars full, use your buttons in the prescribed order, win, collect loot. Either way, they keep you playing and paying.

PvP is not like it at all in the sense that your encounters vary a lot more; granted this is less tangible on a large scale where many people just aoe and mash random buttons to some varied extent of success and there is no gear check or *real* measure of difficulty except whether you live or die, and against a big group a single person's *skill* matters very little. This is why gear is currently the only way to measure 'progression' in pvp in Rift; wow is similar but has more options (see arena, RBGs).

Is that a rule?

My point is that it seems arbitrary. I PVP and I enjoyed the progression process. I also enjoy running premades which has nothing to do with progression. I personally would miss progression if they scrapped it.

Overall, I agree it's nice feeling more powerful but it's a 2-edged sword if you remember to how you felt when you just started out (if you were unlucky enough to be doing it among already geared folks).

Premades have a LOT to do with progression: how would you premade if you were a fresh 50? You'll get facerolled... I understand what you mean in the sense that *in theory* everyone is on the same level by the time they premade (p50) and gear is a non-issue, but you didn't just end up there overnight.

I almost think that instead of PvP gear we should go back to the pvp 'soul' type idea (or PA, now that it's been implemented) so you unlock cool new abilities/cd's to hone your skillset even further, instead of just growing a bigger statstick that does nothing to improve your skill/play. Alternatively, you can look at ranked matches as a form progression (going back to the arena topic again :P)

I'm really eager to see how GW2 approaches this issue and hoping it will teach Trion and Bliz both a lesson or two (even if it's just in how pvp 'balance' can be obtained without the gear grind). If not, well... I guess there is always some other cool new shiny piece of gear we can get.....