Max rank Rated pvp, good or bad idea?

[MannSeastone]

Only real way to make PvP gear BiS is to either lock out Raid relic gear, which trion won't do, or giving us equal gear.

That's what I'm hoping for. One of my guildies, who I trust about these things, said the 1.9 P50 weapons were competitive with relic weapons. If this isn't true we'll ask Trion to fix it, as we have been, and it won't take long for them to do once they choose to listen.

Right now, pvp is bland and has no respect. Every day I listen to people mock it because of how pointless it is. This new bracket will turn that around and give a reward that shows just how good the player is because it will not be a cake walk to earn.

That reward doesn't need to be gear with superior stats. If better players are given better gear, you run the risk of creating a hierarchy where people who are truly better lose because they're undergeared.

Wins, losses are not exactly a good match making stat, there are plenty of players that are amazing players even on losing teams.

If they're that amazing, why would their team of P40s lose?

. . .Premades only is about the only way to effectively rate a person's PvP potential without creating a huge, convoluted, easily spoofable system for rating people, especially in this type of game.

Another way would be to make the system solo queue only, faction nonspecific, so it tracks player strength instead of group or faction strength.

[HannonHellbringer]

Outside of the delay with the most recent PvP set, most of the "Raid gear is better" complaints were limited to a select few classes / roles. When you opt to use raid gear instead of PvP gear, you trade DPS output for a drop in survivability (i.e. less valor). This works in a some cases, such as marksman and "glass cannon" mage specs, which are designed around being able to avoid a fight / taking damage. But it doesn't work quite as well for frontline fighters, which need to soak up that damage.

Unless they throw out the valor system and retool the gear, this is going to happen. There is always some wash over between PvE and PvP gear, simply because of how the stats and the stat budgets work.

And just to make sure, I'm not saying they shouldn't release the p50 set of PvP gear, just that they should not make it exclusive based on a rating system.



What you are describing, basically, is WoW's pre cataclysm rating based gearing system. Outside of the select few, this system did nothing but promote discontent. It drove a rift through the PvP community (pun intended) that separated the haves and the have nots. Complaints about raid gear will be joined by complaints about 'rated' gear.



You can do this without exclusive gear.



As far as I know, Trion has said that Rift will not have / be an esport and they will not balance the game around arenas. I do not think they've said anything about rated WF's or 5v5 WF's.

As for having it be premades only, that's about the only way to effectively rate a person's PvP potential without creating a huge, convoluted, easily spoofable system for rating people, especially in this type of game.



That was not my intention, but be honest, you know there have been times when you've felt that your entire team has been up of herpaderps who couldn't find an objective if it fell on them.



See above, and as much as I hate to say it, PvP'ers are second class citizens in these games. Cold hard fact.


Again, you don't have to add exclusive gear to accomplish this.



Let me clarify something. If the gear is only usable in rated play, as in it cannot be used anywhere else, then it becomes less of a problem. If it can be used in normal WF's and world PvP (which some people seem to think it should be) then there's a problem. That problem would be that if it can be used outside of rated play, then it does become "must have" gear. People will be forced to fight against that gear so people will feel like they are being forced to go get that gear.

I personally don't think you need to add a new set of gear for rated play though. Other non-game effecting trophies would serve the purpose just as well.

Raid gear even on warriors is pretty insane. 1.9 will help close the gap but it will not put pvp gear as BiS. when you add a four piece and a synergy crystal the damage greatly out weigh the loss in valor.

I'm not saying they should do anything different to the new set of gear. I think it should stay on the normal bracket. I also do not think it should be exclusive at all. What should be in the new bracket in the Relic pvp gear which will only be good in the rated queues and dueling since dueling really isn't anything anyways lol. as for open world and normal queue, it should not enter or at the very leadt the player should recieve a HUGE pentalty on their rating for doing so and same with raids since it was meant for only this certain bracket.

Well, premades should be acceptable for sure but not limited to. Good pvpers should know that upon entering this bracket that they better bring some very trusted friends. Limiting the bracket to only premades will only hurt the queue I fear so I say try it out with out premades, the way I figure it, everyone will have high valor and be very close to equal footing and even the full relic geared player will not have an over bearing advantage over anyone. So that should keep survivability pretty high.

Like I said before, the gear will only be used in the rated pvp anything else should be atleast a penalty to rating and a sizeable one to make it not worth the risk. Outside of that it is mostly fluff that can be displayed to all who bear witness to the one who climbed their way up the mountains of ascended corpses to claim the reward upon its summit.

I'm sure I got the info i wanted out on this : )

I just want something EPIC something that even raiders wish they could compare to. Rift has the ability to not keep pvpers as second class citizens, but put them on equal footing with Raiders. I'm not saying that raiders should be knocked down a peg or two, I'm saying that it is possible to make a quick and relatively easy system to challenge those that want leaps and bounds more than what pvp currently offers. I want something to be proud of and not just bragging rights, I want something to tell the story for me, something that says, "I've been to hell and back..."

[HannonHellbringer]

That's what I'm hoping for. One of my guildies, who I trust about these things, said the 1.9 P50 weapons were competitive with relic weapons. If this isn't true we'll ask Trion to fix it, as we have been, and it won't take long for them to do once they choose to listen.


That reward doesn't need to be gear with superior stats. If better players are given better gear, you run the risk of creating a hierarchy where people who are truly better lose because they're undergeared.


If they're that amazing, why would their team of P40s lose?


Another way would be to make the system solo queue only, faction nonspecific, so it tracks player strength instead of group or faction strength.

The gap on the gear is closing but over all the PvE raid relic is better. When you factor in the synergy crystals in pvp that is where the real hurt takes place. The bonus to damage on them tends to make up for the lack of valor and then a lot more.

I'd push for a low disparity between gear in the ranked matches. Overall players will only beable to work up to one set. The one set will then be spread through out the ratings so you'd only see a few points here then a few points there, nothing game changing. If you look at the ID epics then the ID relics the differences are not much and to be honest I don't even think the base stats of the pvp relic gear would even really need to be touched or atleast not by much. I know your going to ask, "Then why have gear at all?" Because something physical, something that has a REAL purpose tends to bring the savage out of all of us when we want it for ourselves, and that is the point of this rated matches.

There are times when players do a REALLY good job but in the end their team loses. Obviously the players that did a lot of the work to make sure their team was up to par still did amazing and though the loss should count against him the fact he supported, healed/killed players, had a low death rate and even made time to carry out the objectives should still come out on top in rating not in the negatives. They may not be as high as other on the opposing team obviously, but more should be a factor so as to not punish those who might get merced, unlucky draw by getting a poor team. IMO

Your last portion makes a good point and it would do good by using Zaros' idea for balanced match making.

[HannonHellbringer]

Yep, guess its not that popular of an idea : (

[jaal]

Yep, guess its not that popular of an idea : (

On the contrary Hannon, what you are proposing is something we all want competitive, rough and ready PvP. I see what you are saying and that you want something to work towards and a reward for PvP is not like PvE, in PvE you progress to harder content, in PvP the content stays the same so better gear just gives you and advantage.

I think giving players vanity gear or having bracketed WF's so the best players play in the top bracket would be a good idea but not sure if there are enough people PvPing to sustain that.

PvE is about having the best gear, PvP is about having the best tactics

[HannonHellbringer]

On the contrary Hannon, what you are proposing is something we all want competitive, rough and ready PvP. I see what you are saying and that you want something to work towards and a reward for PvP is not like PvE, in PvE you progress to harder content, in PvP the content stays the same so better gear just gives you and advantage.

I think giving players vanity gear or having bracketed WF's so the best players play in the top bracket would be a good idea but not sure if there are enough people PvPing to sustain that.

PvE is about having the best gear, PvP is about having the best tactics

The idea of having a chance at relic gear if there to spark a bit of greed into everyone. I think it will bring a bit of a cut throat game play and the way I see it, since the relic gear will only be a slight upgrade from the max ranked gear, people who do have it, will on have a slight advantage, BUT here is where the cut throating starts, just because someone may have the gear today doesn't mean it will be there tomorrow. If a fully geared player steps into a match that should be a huge sign saying, "Come get me!" and if they keep getting focused before they get any kills, heals or whaatever, their rating will suffer for it and thus players can actually effect how long relic geared players have their gear. Oh and since everyone is max ranked, everyone SHOULD be near max valor so the fights will last longer and be more competitive.

I think Fluff items should just be there no matter what, new mounts, contumes and stuff but the ONE SET OF RELIC GEAR should be the like the title belt, the thing that sparks that drive for everone.

[jaal]

The idea of having a chance at relic gear if there to spark a bit of greed into everyone. I think it will bring a bit of a cut throat game play and the way I see it, since the relic gear will only be a slight upgrade from the max ranked gear, people who do have it, will on have a slight advantage, BUT here is where the cut throating starts, just because someone may have the gear today doesn't mean it will be there tomorrow. If a fully geared player steps into a match that should be a huge sign saying, "Come get me!" and if they keep getting focused before they get any kills, heals or whaatever, their rating will suffer for it and thus players can actually effect how long relic geared players have their gear. Oh and since everyone is max ranked, everyone SHOULD be near max valor so the fights will last longer and be more competitive.

I think Fluff items should just be there no matter what, new mounts, contumes and stuff but the ONE SET OF RELIC GEAR should be the like the title belt, the thing that sparks that drive for everone.

I do quite like that idea of everyone fighting for the same limited stock of an item, which is just a shade above the current one, just for the bragging rights they have it. However I think there will be too much complaining they cant get it and after a while

[HannonHellbringer]

I do quite like that idea of everyone fighting for the same limited stock of an item, which is just a shade above the current one, just for the bragging rights they have it. However I think there will be too much complaining they cant get it and after a while

That is where the fluff can come in with new titles, costumes and such. The idea of the bracket is to be VERY HARD, something that even raiders can admit makes their raids seem either on par or hell even kinda lacking. The fact that gear can be stripped from players is something that only hard core players can stomach but if they succeed, can be VERY proud of.