The Sad Truth

[Charlice]

Sauce for the goose eh? But thanks for the reply. So tasty.

I imagine the question was too hard for you to answer. But thanks for trying.

[Scioned]

The awkward moment when you derail your own thread.

lolwhut? I didn't derail anything.

[Misun]

I imagine the question was too hard for you to answer. But thanks for trying.

I think the lack of answer, was the answer.

Which was no.

[Puzzlebox]

With vastly different gear levels, I agree completely. Even at +/- 10 ranks between opponents, skill goes a long long way though. I've bested many people with much better gear simply because I was the better player. Knowing when to blow cd's, how to counter different specs, and all the other tricks that veteran players learn can make a HUGE difference in any fight. My point is everyone can grind r40 or r50 when it comes out and get the best gear and everyone can make a twink and get the best gear too...what's the difference? I don't think this type of MMO PVP should be entirely skill based. The whole point of the game is to level up, get better gear, and be rewarded for it by being more powerful than the brand new player who just installed the game.

The difference is that the 19/29/39/49 brackets are meant for leveling. For players to learn how their characters work and test it out in live circumstances beyond mobs. It's not meant for experienced players to turn around and use their massive gold advantage/experience advantage to curbstomp players who don't know any better.

In the 50's bracket, it's expected that you should know your class and have the gear in a sink or swim PvP tank full of experienced sharks.

[Charlice]

You can't handle the truth!









Someone had to say it.

[Ajax1114]

Contrary to the Constitution and popular belief....we are all NOT created equal. Some people are naturally more intelligent than others, some are more mechanically inclined, some have quicker reflexes than others...I could go on and on, but you get my point. If EVERYONE had the same exact opportunity to become successful/rich/whatever, some of us would and some of us wouldn't simply because people are different. Unfortunately for the QQ'rs, the same holds true in MMO's.

Wait, wait, wait, hold on. What? I think you need to start over. You've got a lot of parts going on here that aren't connecting.

"We are not all equal." Ok fair enough.

"If everyone had the same opportunity to become become successful/rich/whatever, some would and some wouldn't." Wait, hold on there. First of all, you said /whatever, which can mean anything at all in the world. So if given the opportunity, some wouldn't take it no matter what? Even if it was the thing they wanted most in life, aka: /whatever? Already the premise of your entire opinion shows logical holes. People are different, that is true, but the root of what they want is the same: Things like dreams and goals.

"the same holds true in MMO's." And then we get the good 'ole compare-MMOs-to-real-life-magical-leap. Guess what? Games are inherently about fun and would lose a huge chunk of what makes them fun if they reflected reality. Life - though it can entail the same goals - involves things like desperation and pain that are not intended as part of what makes a game a game.

And now for what you could have just said without the nonsense:

If Bob has 5 hours a day to play and Joe has 1 hour a day to play, it's a pretty safe assumption that Bob will be better geared/more experienced that Joe. I wholeheartedly agree that the PVE portion of the game should be able to be enjoyed by everyone from the casual player to the elitist raider, but PVP is a whole different ball of wax. It's competitive. The goal (at least for me) it to melt faces. If you constantly QQ to Trion every time some better geared/more skilled player kicks your face in, then maybe....just maybe, MMO's are not for you. Go play a single player game where there is no competition or stick to PVE. Getting my a*s handed to me by a twink didn't make me run QQ'ing to Trion, it made me want to figure out how to make a twink too...and in turn, gave me a reason to play my 50's again.

You, sir, are - I'm afraid - defeated by your own arguments. People are different you say. If given the opportunity, not all would take the same path you say. Yet you then say that if people do not appreciate the style of play that makes PvP what it is for you, they should just go away.

Fair is fair, people can be different, but you can't go around defining things by your preference and expect others to comply.

You do realize, right, that PvE is competitive too? Players just compete with each other? Yet there is an entire "class" of PvEer that cares little for the competition and is there to enjoy the game as they can? Preferences do vary, indeed, and they won't always be in line with what you want.

[Scioned]

Wait, wait, wait, hold on. What? I think you need to start over. You've got a lot of parts going on here that aren't connecting.

"We are not all equal." Ok fair enough.

"If everyone had the same opportunity to become become successful/rich/whatever, some would and some wouldn't." Wait, hold on there. First of all, you said /whatever, which can mean anything at all in the world. So if given the opportunity, some wouldn't take it no matter what? Even if it was the thing they wanted most in life, aka: /whatever? Already the premise of your entire opinion shows logical holes. People are different, that is true, but the root of what they want is the same: Things like dreams and goals.

"the same holds true in MMO's." And then we get the good 'ole compare-MMOs-to-real-life-magical-leap. Guess what? Games are inherently about fun and would lose a huge chunk of what makes them fun if they reflected reality. Life - though it can entail the same goals - involves things like desperation and pain that are not intended as part of what makes a game a game.

And now for what you could have just said without the nonsense:

You, sir, are - I'm afraid - defeated by your own arguments. People are different you say. If given the opportunity, not all would take the same path you say. Yet you then say that if people do not appreciate the style of play that makes PvP what it is for you, they should just go away.

Fair is fair, people can be different, but you can't go around defining things by your preference and expect others to comply.

You do realize, right, that PvE is competitive too? Players just compete with each other? Yet there is an entire "class" of PvEer that cares little for the competition and is there to enjoy the game as they can? Preferences do vary, indeed, and they won't always be in line with what you want.

I would love to discuss this with you, but I have to get to work. So by your reasoning, Trion should give EVERYONE an alloted amount of time per day to play and that should be it right?

Yes, PVE is competitive....the difference is the goal in PVE is progression, the goal in PVP is being able to beat other players. I don't expect people to comply to my preference. I do however expext people to understand that this is basically a gear based game and that someone with better gear should in most cases be able to beat you. The solution to this, is get better gear. Not change the game to cater to every little cry baby.

I don't think people who don't appreciate my style should go away. I think they should spend the time and effort to make a decent toon instead of expecting Trion/Their parents/Society/The world to make everything "fair" for them. Like I said, everyone has the ability to make a twink. It's not my fault that I spent the time and effort to grind to 50, grind the rep, gather the mats, craft the gear and buy consumable and someone else didn't.

As for the rich/successful/whatever....ok yes, I see you point. I didn't mean for that to be so vague, but yes...given the opportunity, some people would take it, and some people wouldn't.

[Trisian]

Twinking doesn't do anyone one lick of good when you have no one left to compete against.

[Leoknife]

Here is a simple truth.

If you want to play competitive PvP play it in the level 50 bracket.

Leave the sub 50s for the new/levelers. That is all.

And yes a casual gamer can get to R40. I play about 1-2 hrs a night during the week and maybe 5 hrs over the weekend, and I have one P40, one P34, and one P11

This change is good overall for the game, and will only annoy a few people overall.

I can twink if I wanted to, I just choose to play competitive PvP where it belongs. In the 50 bracket.

Twinking is the same thing as going to a level 30 zone as a level 50 and one GCD kill a newb. Defending it only makes you look like a cyber bully. And how lame is that.

[Charlice]

Here is a simple truth.

If you want to play competitive PvP play it in the level 50 bracket.

Leave the sub 50s for the new/levelers. That is all.

And yes a casual gamer can get to R40. I play about 1-2 hrs a night during the week and maybe 5 hrs over the weekend, and I have one P40, one P34, and one P11

This change is good overall for the game, and will only annoy a few people overall.

I can twink if I wanted to, I just choose to play competitive PvP where it belongs. In the 50 bracket.

Twinking is the same thing as going to a level 30 zone as a level 50 and one GCD kill a newb. Defending it only makes you look like a cyber bully. And how lame is that.

Actually twinking is what? What exactly is twinking? Let's see shall we. Oh that's right, it's having gear in every slot in Rift, isn't it. It's also anyone that kills you in a low level warfront, or anyone with a 9 in their adventure level.

I think before you jump on the anti-twink band wagon, you must like to take in that most players that have, or should I say had, level locked toons, also have levels 50's, hell most even have rank 40's.

And you're calling level 50 PvP competitive? Really? Do you have raid weapons? Do you run in a pre-made? Wow you're not scared you'll chase away new level 50's if you do are you? Cause I'm sure you're aware, that due to most PvP punters being fed up, with such lame PvP, matched warfronts are rarer than hens teeth.

Low level warfronts were actually a lot more evenly matched, than most matches you'll have at 50. The gear disparity, providing players had gear in slots was nowhere near the same extreme, as it is at 50.

PvP is competitive. It is competitive at all levels. Players than can not gear up for the occasion, deserve to bite the dust hard, and often.

You know what. Don't feel special. I have 2 r40's, a r33 or something, and a r13. And the best PvP I have had, in this game, was locked in lower level warfronts. Honestly leads me to believe that most of the players that have cried the loudest never even zoned into a lower level match. But, I can bet they're from WoW.

[MannSeastone]

I think they should spend the time and effort to make a decent toon instead of expecting Trion/Their parents/Society/The world to make everything "fair" for them.

I've never understood why every libertarian sees themselves as the millionaire capitalist instead of the exploited child laborer. Your toon isn't decent. It's much worse than my R40. Should Trion decide to take away the protections that make this game "fair", there is a 300% chance that we would make you our ***** - 100% for you, 100% for your children, and 100% for your children's children.

[Ardor]

Choose:
1) Succeed via a passive gear advantage.
2) Succeed by actively learning and by becoming more skilled.

Which of these options you prefer says a lot about how you approach a lot of things in life, I think.

[Leoknife]

Actually twinking is what? What exactly is twinking? Let's see shall we. Oh that's right, it's having gear in every slot in Rift, isn't it. It's also anyone that kills you in a low level warfront, or anyone with a 9 in their adventure level.

Here is the problem. New players don't have the resources to acquire the same goods as a twink in a lower level warfront. Level 50 is gear dependent, yes, but equal access to the resources to acquire that gear.

I think before you jump on the anti-twink band wagon, you must like to take in that most players that have, or should I say had, level locked toons, also have levels 50's, hell most even have rank 40's.

Never made an official stance. It didn't effect me. But I do believe removal of the lock is beneficial for rift as a whole so I am backing Trion's decision.

And you're calling level 50 PvP competitive? Really? Do you have raid weapons? Do you run in a pre-made? Wow you're not scared you'll chase away new level 50's if you do are you? Cause I'm sure you're aware, that due to most PvP punters being fed up, with such lame PvP, matched warfronts are rarer than hens teeth.

I have no raid weapons. 0. My P34 toon has never once stepped into a raid zone. My P40 toon only has been in DH. I don't raid. I don't like scripted encounters. I solo queue 99% of the time. I think I played in one pre-made my whole career. I don't play enough to get into a consistent group. Last night I ran 10 warfronts. I actually took a count of number of matched warfronts. It was 5. The 5 non matched warfronts was actually more competitive then the matched. One of the LotRM was 991 to 1000. and a Codex was decided in the last minute of play.Dex flip flopped all game long. I had a great time for the 2 hours played. All solo queued.

Yes I feel its competitive. Even in the lower ranks I always felt I contributed something. I always ran some sort of support spec. My P11 Mage always, runs Arch/Chloro. I die. ALOT but I also feel like I'm doing something to help. I try to run objectives. I have been in many warfronts where we one with good team play.

Low level warfronts were actually a lot more evenly matched, than most matches you'll have at 50. The gear disparity, providing players had gear in slots was nowhere near the same extreme, as it is at 50.

That I don't know. I never played in the sub 50 bracket unless I was leveling up. (prior to level lock). But I never feel 50 is extreme. It was MUCH worse before valor normalization.

You know what. Don't feel special. I have 2 r40's, a r33 or something, and a r13. And the best PvP I have had, in this game, was locked in lower level warfronts. Honestly leads me to believe that most of the players that have cried the loudest never even zoned into a lower level match. But, I can bet they're from WoW.

Ill have to take your word, since I never played a lock toon. I'm not a QQer. I just feel that this is the best choice for Trion as a company. It will benefit more people. And the more people happy the more people play.

[ChrisN]

Don't you people read the patch notes?

Xp lock is now removed.

Twinks will be a thing of the past with patch 1.9

[Misun]

Don't you people read the patch notes?

Xp lock is now removed.

Twinks will be a thing of the past with patch 1.9

Really? This is the first I've heard of it. Thanks for that breaking news.


(you're a couple of days late)