Thoughts on Melee Rogues

[Emanresu]

I wanted to ask this here, as opposed to the Rogue's forum, to try and get some feedback from all the classes. I'm mainly interested in the thoughts and opinions of full or nearly fully geared p40 players and specifically, in warfronts. Lower level, lower ranked and pve geared players' responses will carry much less weight with me on this topic.

The first question is, how many fully geared p40 melee rogues do you think you encounter in warfronts on average? Of this number what percent are 51 sins, what percent are 51 NB's and what percent are NB/RS hybrids? (I left out 51 BD but if you actually encounter one on a regular basis, feel free to include this too).

Are the 51 sins or 51 NB's a challenge for you in warfronts? Do you find yourself put in challenging and/or uncomfortable situations when faced with one? What are they best at (bursting something down? crowd controlling? dying?)? Are they easy to kill? Would you prefer to have one of these types of rogues on your team, or would you prefer a rogue with a different build or a different class entirely? Do you find that these types of rogues do too much damage (especially when compared to other classes or even other rogue builds) or do they have too much CC at their disposal? Or are they lacking in these departments?

Personally, I see very few top end melee rogues in warfronts. Most of the ones I do see are NB/RS hybrids. If you do see a lot of these top end rogues in warfronts, can you name them (instead of just claiming that you seem them all over, or whatever)? If you currently play a class other than rogue, would you be comfortable seeing a nerf to the NB/RS hybrid build, if 51 sins and NB's were buffed (I'm not interested in necessarily discussing the details of such changes at this point, that is another topic)?

[Ashh]

I think melee rogues are pretty cool guys. Eh kills bluebars and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Credo]

NB/RS is the "I don't know how to play my class well, but this spec has a very low learning curve" spec. Personally I prefer Sin/BD, BD/Sin, and Sab/Sin.

As for advice for someone that wants to be a melee Rogue, just go make a Warrior. You need to be a masochist to play a melee Rogue.

[Violacea]

NB/RS is the "I don't know how to play my class well, but this spec has a very low learning curve" spec. Personally I prefer Sin/BD, BD/Sin, and Sab/Sin.

As for advice for someone that wants to be a melee Rogue, just go make a Warrior. You need to be a masochist to play a melee Rogue.

Nothing bad about using RS variant specs. The soul has a bunch of great tools. I'm not sure what is worse, people who think using certain souls means someone is bad, or someone who doesn't use souls because they think it's too easy. You use what is needed and works best for your play style, and what you produce best results with. If you produce best results with a NB/RS you are goofy if you don't spec it. I don't think RS is as needed with NB because the ports are all 20m range and NB has 20m range damage. Even though their melee range damage is more potent, I find a lot of the porting to be redundant. RS makes a nice combo with a Sin though, especially fighting spellcasters/MM. A MM can make a 51sin/15bd look like a joke. Once you blow your charge, you're pretty much shooting 0 pt arrows at a target moving faster than you.

It's all preference anyway. Mine are 51sab, 51mm, 51nb, 44sin/22rs. Gotta have some range.

to OP, I'm going to run out of edit time, shall return

[Credo]

I'm not trying to tell people what to play or how to play, but I reserve my right to have an opinion!

[Violacea]

I guess, I just don't see what is low curve about it. I actually find NB/RS to be one of the more complex rogue soul combos. Lot's of abilities and tools and different moments to use them.

If you ask me, the low curve easy to play souls are Sab and MM. You know how to play your class well if you perform with it. You're either pro or noob.

[Izraels queso]

Well to be honest as a P40 rogue I mainly do MM and have found that the only really viable spec for melee would be a NB/RS spec (I don't play it.) Because while Assassin/RS is awesome, but lacks a spamable healing debuff (Fellblades or VM) So often times it can be hard to take down targets with alot of damage reduction (lacking CC, although its still entirely possible using mana drains.)

51 NB While definately the most hard hitting, its rather kind of squishy and not very mobile. Also while every single buff and combat buff is purge-able meaning if a MM with 44pts targets you, you'll hit like a wet noodle once he starts purging you. I'd say out of 100% of melee rogues this would be 20%

51 SIN.... I really don't know why you would go 51 sin in a warfront. This spec is Highly immobile, meaning if you open on a mage in the back of a group and he ports to the front, have fun wading through their entire team. (although 15BD can help with the mobility) I hardly ever see a 51 sin in wfs...(also again, lack of a non-purge-able or reapplying healing debuff.)

Personally melee rogues in warfonts are well...
But although I do hate NB/RS with a fiery passion, i'd rather they not get nerfed (or buffed for that matter) because I would miss watching them fail as I spam Eradicate on them.
I would rather like to see the CD on the rogue healing debuff from the PA war tree reduced from 30 seconds.

Now for buffing 51 NBs.. thats a touchy subject.. as I feel 1v1 it takes them a few finishers to get up to burst damage, but when they do... it hurts, and they work best with healers.
51 Sins could use a buff to mobility, also making their ONLY slow NON-PURGE-ABLE. yea... their one and only slow is purge-able....

[Emanresu]

For the record, my intention in creating this thread was not to seek advice as to whether or not I should play a melee build. My main build is a 51 point melee build. I've played it as well as other melee builds pretty extensively. That said, I have my opinions about the builds (primarily 51 Sin and 51 NB) and ultimately, I find them lacking. Not complete garbage, just lacking. Now, obviously, I am biased because i am a rogue playing these builds. I do think 51 sin and 51 nb are very close to where I think they should be, but not quite there yet. I just wanted to see what the vast majority of other top end players (ie level 50, p40, fully geared, active pvpers) thought about this because I understand that my point of view is skewed and being able to understand the points of view of people who have to play with and against these builds will help me understand my own opinions better.

The main problem I see with melee rogues, mostly 51 sins and to a lesser extent 51 nb's, is their survivability. I'm not one of the people who think the current warriors buffs are unwarranted. I don't play a warrior but I like the fact that warriors can put out an amazing amount of damage and have excellent synergy with healers. Warriors, it could be said are squishy, but they counter that with plate armor and high damage and utility (best defense is a good offense theory). Rogues (51 sin/nb particularly), it could be said are squishy and have stealth and defensive cooldowns (almost too CD dependent, in NB's case) to counter. Personally, I think rogues (again, and hereafter, "rogues" is meant to be 51 sin/nb) should be squishy, but their survivability should come more in the form of utility. They should have more CC and more effective CC than they currently do. They should be able to exit combat sooner and the cooldown on stealth if your a 51 sin should be almost nonexistant. The abilities they can use from stealth should be increased. It would help if bleeds were nonphysical and if poisons were more effective. This would give the rogue a much higher learning curve, but those who are capable would be very effective, while those less capable won't make much of an impact in either direction and likely wouldn't play the build anyway.

[Ashh]

NB/RS is the "I don't know how to play my class well, but this spec has a very low learning curve" spec. Personally I prefer Sin/BD, BD/Sin, and Sab/Sin.

As for advice for someone that wants to be a melee Rogue, just go make a Warrior. You need to be a masochist to play a melee Rogue.

LOL right, because someone who plays nb/rs doesn't know their class. Good call. This just goes to show your ignorance.

[Zaros]

I hardly ever see 51 NBs, but I think they're balanced.

I see a lot of Sin hybrids/51 Sins, and laugh in their underpowered faces.

I see a metric asston of NB/RS's, and for my opinion of them, see this video.

[Ashh]

I hardly ever see 51 NBs, but I think they're balanced.

I see a lot of Sin hybrids/51 Sins, and laugh in their underpowered faces.

I see a metric asston of NB/RS's, and for my opinion of them, see this video.

why teh hate

[Charlice]

I can only think of one 'melee' rogue and that is Ace, or maybe he just stood out. I'm sure there's more, but I can't say I've seen them.

Rift really doesn't seem to lend itself to melee play for the average player, in my opinion.

[Zaros]

why teh hate

I just don't like builds that can be played to practically full capacity with like 5 keybinds >.>

[Am0n]

I'm not trying to tell people what to play or how to play, but I reserve my right to have an opinion!

Every spec in this game has a low learning curve because of the macro system, if you play NB/RS without macros, the learning curve is slightly higher than that of Sin/BD.

[Am0n]

I just don't like builds that can be played to practically full capacity with like 5 keybinds >.>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mA8nCdTuWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBLOOgHz7OE

Say what?! =P

I understand "can" lmao