Thoughts on Melee Rogues

[Tantrasil]

Ive recently switched to a 51 sin build and im really enjoying it. If you know your class anything is easy or effective.

[Sonmychest]

In general, Melee rogues are my favorite to play and I think some of the strongest builds are melee, particularly in duels. If your talking about WFs then the risk/trouble is that once you pop into range a lot of enemies will target and focus fire you down.

[Killforbeer]

Every spec in this game has a low learning curve because of the macro system, if you play NB/RS without macros, the learning curve is slightly higher than that of Sin/BD.

I am not sure if you mean every "Rogue Spec" but I would like to add that Every "Class Spec" (Mage, Rogue, War, Cleric) are very easy with a Macro System. I would say the learning curve would be more on the player than the actual spec combo.

Here meh 2 cents - Keep da change ya filthy animal...

[Trisian]

Melee rogues have the damage and survivability dps warriors should imo.

[tevikolady]

NB/RS is the "I don't know how to play my class well, but this spec has a very low learning curve" spec. Personally I prefer Sin/BD, BD/Sin, and Sab/Sin.

As for advice for someone that wants to be a melee Rogue, just go make a Warrior. You need to be a masochist to play a melee Rogue.

I disagree. But we are all entitled to our opinions, right?

I like NB. Has high damage, and high utility. I like to pair a lot of my other rogue specs with NB for the extra damage.

However, for my NB, I like RS for the damage absorptions. Popping rift guard on a target if they are not going to go down quick gived you a dodge chance as well as an absorption shield. Truly, though, its the shields that most people use RS for, not the blips.

[Puandro]

A lot of ******ed going on in this thread.

[Hartzekar]

Melee glass cannon rogue specs require a good bit of skill imo. A good, high ranked Assassin will put me in my place even on my warrior. I don't think I've ever encountered a 51 NB. NB/RS, just lol.

[Flimble]

This post disturbs me for a lot of reasons. First, to assume that nb/rs variants need to be nerfed because for some reason certain players are unable to defeat it is absurd....Third, NB/RS variants are complex builds that like the sin require a lot of timing to be effective. I find a lot of good rogues cannot even use a nb/rs because its too hard for them. I would also like to add that goes for Pvp MM builds. MM builds are complex and require a lot of skill.

Not as disturbing as the above paragraph...

RS/NB needs a nerf, because the combination of survivability, mobility and damage is unequalled and out of line with every other class / build.

MM is the most ridiculous kiting class I have ever played, lots of speed buffs, a leap back, loads of skills that can be used on the move, CC, eradicate and possibly the dumbest design decision I have ever seen for kiting class - 5m longer range than anyone else, including ranged classes that have to stand still for a good number of their skills.

Neither of them are difficult to play, the MM is about 2 rungs up the ladder from an FPS (just without the actual difficult bit of having to aim whilst leaping about), try chlorodom for difficult, twice the number of skills, harder to kite on, skills that are situational and require thought, much more likely to get a number over your head and on top of that you have to keep an eye on the raid bars for healing & cleansing and keep an eye on healers for CC removal.

The sea of yellow names in most WF should give you a clue to exactly how difficult and underpowered rogues are in PvP.

[Laban of C O]

I wanted to ask this here, as opposed to the Rogue's forum, to try and get some feedback from all the classes. I'm mainly interested in the thoughts and opinions of full or nearly fully geared p40 players and specifically, in warfronts. Lower level, lower ranked and pve geared players' responses will carry much less weight with me on this topic.

The first question is, how many fully geared p40 melee rogues do you think you encounter in warfronts on average? Of this number what percent are 51 sins, what percent are 51 NB's and what percent are NB/RS hybrids? (I left out 51 BD but if you actually encounter one on a regular basis, feel free to include this too).

Are the 51 sins or 51 NB's a challenge for you in warfronts? Do you find yourself put in challenging and/or uncomfortable situations when faced with one? What are they best at (bursting something down? crowd controlling? dying?)? Are they easy to kill? Would you prefer to have one of these types of rogues on your team, or would you prefer a rogue with a different build or a different class entirely? Do you find that these types of rogues do too much damage (especially when compared to other classes or even other rogue builds) or do they have too much CC at their disposal? Or are they lacking in these departments?

Personally, I see very few top end melee rogues in warfronts. Most of the ones I do see are NB/RS hybrids. If you do see a lot of these top end rogues in warfronts, can you name them (instead of just claiming that you seem them all over, or whatever)? If you currently play a class other than rogue, would you be comfortable seeing a nerf to the NB/RS hybrid build, if 51 sins and NB's were buffed (I'm not interested in necessarily discussing the details of such changes at this point, that is another topic)?

What I use in warfronts:
51Sabo
32bard/34rs
48NB/18RS

Openworld:
51Sin/15MM

51NB: From my perspective in warfronts... I see almost no 51NB. They are generally too squishy to dps potential to be much of a threat, and have ****ty ability to counter range. Which... mages, clerics and lots of rogues are range.

51SIN: You see it from time to time in warfronts, it is generally terrible for anything other than an occational annoyance to the team when a healer gets attacked. Other than that they are stealthed at the Vault, or utterly irrelevant to the warfront.

NB/RS hybrids:
38/28 - I see a lot of these running around. Lots of surviability, but not a whole lot of effect. Easily purged by a marksman, or focused down. They remind me of VK warrior tanks in pvp somewhat. They port to the blue bar lines and annoy people.
40/26 and 44/22 - Generally like the above, a bit less survivability in exchange for a touch more dps.
48/18 - Rarely seen on the warfront, and ironically what I've ran since 1.4. "I don't always run NB/RS, but when I do I run 48/18." :P I found for me it parsed higher numbers than 51 NB did (20% extra damage off a port, and 5% of that static always up.. fun fun). Even getting purged by a marksman doesn't bother, since you dps them down without weapon enchants up which I like. It's squishy though.

People that ***** about nb/rs (the 38/28 only really) survivability, mobility and damage balance... need to go do a warfront with warriors in it after 1.8. NB/RS takes a bit more management than the riftwalk/riftstorm spam I see. :P Corned beef builds are kind of fun to watch though. I had a warrior trying to chase me with his corned beef yesterday...

51BD is terrible for warfronts. I've wanted to see a viable heavy BD spec be viable for pvp... forever. :/

51Ranger... ironically enough... is actually kind of fun now in pvp. When I get borred I pull that out and just use 100% pve gear.. hk/id and the ranger crystal. Did a black garden where I snagged 28 kills and 0 deaths running ranger... which made me absolutely laugh my *** off, since I remember seeing rangers as garbage for pvp for so long. But... toss in that ranger crystal.. and id gear... and by god they can ranged gib folks pretty damn fast.

[Kyera]

Really surprised people are still complaining about NB/RS.

[tevikolady]

Really surprised people are still complaining about NB/RS.

I play it, no complaints from me

[Laban of C O]

Really surprised people are still complaining about NB/RS.

I want Riftstorm and Riftwalk on my nb/rs! :P Actually, I might like 51NB.. if our 51 point ability was nearly as good as the 31 point ability of Riftblade. Hell, just give us Riftstorm at 51 points in heh, but fire damage.

[Kyera]

I want Riftstorm and Riftwalk on my nb/rs! :P Actually, I might like 51NB.. if our 51 point ability was nearly as good as the 31 point ability of Riftblade. Hell, just give us Riftstorm at 51 points in heh, but fire damage.

All I played before I shelved the 50 rogue was 51 NB/15 Inf (I forgot what I spent the points in when PvP PA came in), 51 MM/15 Inf (similarly, can't remember what I changed), and 34 Bard/32 Riftstalker/0 Saboteur.

I tried NB/RS, and it was a good light dps decoy, but aside from 1vX against people playing poorly during dailies, it didn't seem to be all that potent unless you went with the higher NB spec... but most people I see playing are doing the 3x/2x.

[Laban of C O]

All I played before I shelved the 50 rogue was 51 NB/15 Inf (I forgot what I spent the points in when PvP PA came in), 51 MM/15 Inf (similarly, can't remember what I changed), and 34 Bard/32 Riftstalker/0 Saboteur.

I tried NB/RS, and it was a good light dps decoy, but aside from 1vX against people playing poorly during dailies, it didn't seem to be all that potent unless you went with the higher NB spec... but most people I see playing are doing the 3x/2x.

I used 51 nb back when I started the game, but I have switched around a few different setups. I eventually settled on 48/18 when they did the "nerf" to blackout. With the damage boost from Blackout and the damage boosts from RS it hits harder than I could parse out of 51nb, especially on mobile targets. I tried the 3x/2x build, and even a 44/22... but both lacked damage for me. I see 0 reason to go 51 nb honestly, since if you like heavy damage 48/18 does more... and it has damage mitigation (12%) and shields, along with ports.

[Astelle]

NB/RS is the "I don't know how to play my class well, but this spec has a very low learning curve" spec. Personally I prefer Sin/BD, BD/Sin, and Sab/Sin.

As for advice for someone that wants to be a melee Rogue, just go make a Warrior. You need to be a masochist to play a melee Rogue.

I'm not gonna argue with your personal opinion about what you prefer to play, but your comments about NB/RS are just elitist bs. Pretty much every spec can be macroed down to a few keybinds. The skill in this game comes not from complex buttons sequences to remember, but from tactical positioning and knowing when, who and where to attack. Go play the spec you enjoy and I'll play the spec I enjoy......unless you want to send me a cheque for my subs??

Also anyone who takes your advice and levels a warr to L50, then p40 will be disappointed. A melee rogue has far more survival tools at their disposal than a (non-tank) warrior. On my rogue in ns/rb, I can pop cd's, blink to disengage, get a heal and be back in the fight. It's fun pulling warrs out of line and away from their healers as they try to chase me down. A warr doesn't have any tools to disengage from a fight, and playing my warr I have to be a LOT more careful about staying close to healers as I can't just blink back to them (unless some helpful opponent is attacking them and I can charge/riftwalk them).