TWINKS, in General, why the hate

[Misun]

Grandfathered items should be the least of your concern. Sure, it's a little broken in the early PVP stages, but they're hardly what's causing the "problem with twinking." If this was a game breaking issue, Trion would have done something about it by now.

The problem is bad, lazy, terrible players that can't figure out what it means to be appropriately geared (see Misun's post) and learn how the effectively compete against good players. Inspect anyone in your warfront, I guarantee you will find startling evidence of this bad play. Watch how they charge headfirst 1v4 and drop in milliseconds. This isn't the fault of a twink, or a player's gear, or being out-skilled. It's the bad players, they are the detriment to the team, and I'm willing to bet that a good portion of those "baddies" are those that come crying to forums for nerfs and XP lock removal.

You take XP lock away, you take your <2m queues away. No one can deny that queues were horrible before XP locking. Now, you can level effectively primarily through warfronts (as I did).If you separate brackets, the same thing will happen.

Deal with it or get better.

Yep, that's exactly what I noticed. Players who were lazy about getting even the most basic gear (filling every slot? come on!) were bad players.

What I mean by bad player is; charging into a group of enemies by themselves...not sticking with the team, not peeling from the healers or clothies, not focusing marked targets, trying to rambo 1vs1, etc.

It wasn't just the gear issue, it was very poor play style in general and a lack of common sense.

And yes, they complained about people being "twinked" the entire time...like that was the reason they were failing so badly.

Players like that are detrimental to their entire team.

[tevikolady]

I promised myself I'd stay away from these forums, but I couldn't help myself, I lurked around and watched the outbreak of 'I hate twink' threads. I sat back and thought upon it, and finally realized why people hate twinks...and honestly, it doesn't have a lick to do with 'gear' disparities. (But I will come back to this).

Non-twinks are usually misinformed or do not have the knowledge they need in order to twink themselves. And doing it themselves is far more worth the effort than they are willing to do themselves. This roughly translates to everything else they adopt when entering a warfront. Their build, their PvP techniques and their gear.

Everything a PvE'er encounters while leveling they can click two buttons (for the most part) three if they are feeling squirrely, and mobs die. They grow bold iand confident IN THESE BUILDS, and since they can own everything with little effort in PvE, they don't bother to equip themselves with BiS (best in sloit) because..I will just replace it in two levels....why bother?

So, for whatever reason, gross curiosity, or someone asked them to join them, or they really wanna PvP...they join a warfront. They go out to find the first red name to destroy and suddenly...tehy get rolled, and have to respawn....Wait..that didn't just seriously happen, did it?

Test number two...I mean, after all, this build works fine in PvE, right? Right???? They jump down and maybe kill somoene else, *maybe* kill them, but then again, that level 19 will show up and your flat on your back. Frustrated, you scream bloody murder, finish your warfront and rush to the forums to complain about 'twinks'.

This is 90% of new and 'vetern' players who are playing RIFT PvP for the first time. If nothing has taught me anything in the history of MMO's is that PvP in any game is different than the last. YOu may *know* a thing or two, but what you don't know is what specs are 'better' for PvP than for PvE. One thing PvE teaches you is to 'save' those CDs. What PvP teaches you is to blow them when they are up.

PvE you stand there and go toe-to-toe with the NPCs on a scripted code. In PvP, nothing is scripted, that standing still = dead. Mobility, to quote a friend, is key in PvP.

Camera angles are another thing you need...an FPS view, or even an over teh shoulder view is goin got reduce your cognizant awareness of teh battlefield and open you up to a) standing still or b) getting attacked from behind. Either is a quick trip to the respawn pad.
A top down view will open up your field of vision more, but to be scrolled out so far can disorient you to 'you' are in relation to the action, but again, this is going to help you imporve reaction times and be able to see something that might be coming up behind you...like that RS tank....

Builds, I mentioned this before, but again, builds are a HUGE deal in PvP. What's fine for PvE does NOT always work in PvP. THat Cab build your playing with is the ubber s*ck in PvP. You WILL get rolled, and might even get laughed at. Not saying that's right (about getting laughed at) but that is the fact of life. PvP is about...mobility. Anything YOU can do to dirupt that mobility in another player is tandemount and is almost required. YOu can sacrifice a snare in your build for an ability that ramps up your damage or gives you a mega heal or something, but again, CC (crowd control) is the most common build to stack upon. Anything you can do to a) stop that RB tank gettinfg near you, b) prevent that NB rogue from runnign from you, c) stop that healer ffrom casting his next heal...so on and so forth. Such builds are not usually common in your normal PvE builds and take awhile to adapt to 'life on the battlefield'.

Combat analysis.

Something PvE'ers don't typically bother with. If you get killed by an ability and your like: "Holy F**K what the F**K just happened!?" Take a moment on the respawn pad to scroll through combat and check it out. Or, if you have your damage done and damage taken showing, then yoiu will already know. Again, this is not something the normal PvE'er needs to do while 'leveling' through the game.

And last, but not least...gear.

Gear is not as significant as people tend to attribute to why they lost in a warfront. Good Gear, on a GOOD player will make it SEEM like that GOOD PLAYER is trolololololing his way to victory, but in actuallity, that GOOD PLAYER has spent a siginificant time honing his skills through constantly playing PvP over and over again. *I* was anti-twink when level lock first came around. Check my initial posts on the matter. But then, as 'proof' that a low level with no 50 support *can't* twink I began my level 19 rogue on Faeblight.

To my surprise, you can. It might take time, but if you are twinking, then you have ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD. If not, you move up and move on with your life. But what I noticed, while beginning my experiementation, is that gear DIDN'T really matter. I had a build, I had *some* skills, and that drastically changed my playstyle in warfronts. With practice, and my dedication to 'twinking' myself out I went from 'bad' to GOOD. But when i was 'bad' and I had the gear, I still wasn't any better than a normal under-geared, unskilled player. It took me combining ALL of these elements to be a 'twink'.

Now, I am proud to say I twinked, because I did it all on my own. I didn't go out to destroy newbs, they quite readily came and found me. I went after objectives, I went after the level 19 twinks on their side, or the healers to support my team. I would prattle on the startegies for the warfronts for my team, so that even new players could get an idea of what the map wanted you to do, in order to win. I was even thanked a few times.

What sets any twinks aside from a non-twink is not gear, its the PvE vs PvP mentality. I'm sorry but these 'bads' are really just PvE minded people who are following the cookie cutter PvE grind, and EXPECT that PvP be no different.

But PvP IS a different mentality, it is a different way of 'living'. YOu may hate that level 19 twink that just destroyed you, but if you ever get a chance to be on their same team, and say 'hi' to them, you will realize, they are a decent human being just like yourself or someone else. They are not out to make your life miserable.

Now, back to that first paranthesis...gear disparities.

Twinking was 'horrible' when it first came out. The proliferent exploits that were obviously not intended brought out he worst in 'twinking', which is why it is probably so hated atm. People were putting level 50 items on level 18 gear, which was obviously NOT the intended purpose, or why make it level 50 to obtain? But Trion recognized their loopholes and did what they had to in order to bring this in line. The only problem is the 'grandfather' runes they've left in. Why put this unholy restriction of runes if your just going to allow the cuurent runes to remain in place? Its not that a GOOD PLAYER can't kill a twink like this, but if the grandfather twink is ALSO a GOOD PLAYER, then the gear disparity exists.

Twinking is a now commonly used word for someone who put effort into their gear. This really needs to end, because, as I proved to myself, anyone can get good gear. Heck, there are even guides on it now! There are people out there willing to share their knowledge with everyone who'll listen. It's not a secret, we are not hiding in dark allets, plotting ans schemeing how to make your life miserable. If we were, these secrets would be closely guarded. But they are not...why do you think that is?

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tl;dr

PvE and PvP are two different mentailities, and non-twinks mistake 'twinks' with people who have mastered PvP. (Or are just really good at it.)

I recommend reading my lengthy post tho.

[Sabryn]

Twinking is a now commonly used word for someone who put effort into their gear. This really needs to end, because, as I proved to myself, anyone can get good gear. Heck, there are even guides on it now! There are people out there willing to share their knowledge with everyone who'll listen. It's not a secret, we are not hiding in dark allets, plotting ans schemeing how to make your life miserable. If we were, these secrets would be closely guarded. But they are not...why do you think that is?

This. It really is too easy to gear up to be competitive in low level PvP. My very first toon was a rogue, and I leveled almost entirely through warfronts and a few dungeons. I came in after XP locking, I had no idea what it was, or why some people were staying 29 for so long. It was annoying, but I was new. So I went searching, I dug up "Motive's PvP leveling guide for 1.7" or something like that, and went from there. Soon, with my underleveled weaponsmith daggers and a few runes on my gear, I was taking out people 4-6 levels higher than me with ease. I was being called a "twink." Why? Because I had a good knowledge of my role? Because I made an effort to keep up with my gear? Because I could effectively defend or take out an objective?

None of these, I'm certain. It was just baddies who got mad because I was better than they were.

Now, when you're dropping in seconds to my Impale, before you go crying on the forums, remember that it's not gear that's beating you, it's just someone better at PvP.

[Qualm]

end of story everyone at one point had the chance to be the same as us, people who pay for 3 f******* subs cry and complain its not fair, and then go on to do w/e they want in life end of story people need to stop the hate and look at the pros.... I help people level, almost every day as a twink i queue with someone who doesnt know whats going on, i help them, people need to understand the difference between 5 people crying for 2 months and moving on to w/e they want, rather then the people who actually PAY to play, point is, we pay our monthly scribe, we do what makes us happiest in life.

[tevikolady]

Combat analysis.

Something PvE'ers don't typically bother with. If you get killed by an ability and your like: "Holy F**K what the F**K just happened!?" Take a moment on the respawn pad to scroll through combat and check it out. Or, if you have your damage done and damage taken showing, then yoiu will already know. Again, this is not something the normal PvE'er needs to do while 'leveling' through the game.

Something I forgot to add, my apologies, but for some reason I couldn't go back and edit this post.

When you do a combat analysis, and you discover what ability that killed you, and you know what it is (by virtue of having played it with an alt, or by looking it up) you can find a way to easily counter it in the future. Whether it is improving your build, using LoS, staying out of range, or what have you, knowing what your opponent is doing yields a significant advanatge for YOU!

My rogue weilds 3 PvP builds. A NB build, an MM build, and a SAB build. My SAB build was to specifically count ONE person on the battlefield, then I would find a quiet place and switch back to one of my other builds. Why would I do this? Because I found my other two builds were ineffective on their own, and I would not have known what to do if I had not used combat analysis, paired with my own knowledge of class make up/popular builds.

And while most people don't utilize this...having more than one build for 'whatever' is also a useful tactic for PvP. Sticking yourself in one role will limit what you *can* do, and open you up for people (like me) that switch it up depending on who they are facing, or what map they are on.

[Qualm]

no nerf should have happened, explained the differnece between pro and people who had a hobby

[huntry]

That 14.99 a month you spend to "Twink" should be going to your schooling so you can learn how to spell.

[Flimble]

What sets any twinks aside from a non-twink is not gear, its the PvE vs PvP mentality. I'm sorry but these 'bads' are really just PvE minded people who are following the cookie cutter PvE grind, and EXPECT that PvP be no different.

Twinking is the mentality of a "bad", real PvPers want competitve fun PvP, hence why PvP is on life support in Rift (and many other MMORPGs that brainlessly copy the same flawed model).

[Qualm]

That 14.99 a month you spend to "Twink" should be going to your schooling so you can learn how to spell.

with your 15 a month you should go to school to be an editor.

[Meina]

Something I forgot to add, my apologies, but for some reason I couldn't go back and edit this post.

There is a 5 minute time limit on editing your posts, for some reason.

Kudos to you on your posts. You hit a lot of the primary issues right on the head.

[Nsayn1]

Only problem I have with Qualm is he usually sync ques with 4-8 other twinks and then it becomes a slaughter. No clue why but Defiant seem to care about winning more than guards. Ill be the only "Twink" on my side and the rest of my team will be on the low end of the lvl cap bracket and have half their slots empty. Seems that way all through the brackets. Defiant will have their gear together while guards want a free ride all the way to r40.

Losing pvp IS THE SLOWEST way to level ya nubs. Gear up or g t f o

[Valnak]

http://i.imgur.com/mFGwK.jpg

Balanced.

[Charlice]

http://i.imgur.com/mFGwK.jpg

Balanced.

Oh I get it. Players should strive to perform at their best, with the worst available gear possible? Is this what all this crap is about?

Your image is the difference between someone that gives a toss, and someone that doesn't, in a GEAR BASED GAME.

[Meina]

http://i.imgur.com/mFGwK.jpg

Balanced.

This leads to the question of the level of the toon sporting the Vanquisher's Bow.

[tevikolady]

http://i.imgur.com/mFGwK.jpg

Balanced.

Yes, I see from your hotbar you are MM/SIN.

My suggestion? Slot up 10 points in NB focusing on 5/5 for increased damage on abilities that grant combo points and 5/5 on increased damage on finishers....you should get a alot more umph as a MM spec.

GL2U


As for the level 49 eth...kudos for her. She took the time to get stuff for herself.

You are level 47, you can do IA's too and get TONS TONS AND TONS of planarite and ISS to get teh same stuff as her. But I'm sorry, forogt you were late with crumpets and tea with miss mary