Twink Request

[Misun]

I think a lot of the reason why the low level warfronts seem so bad, is because of players who have outdated gear, gear missing from slot, no essences/sigil, etc.

This puts a burden on the rest of the players who may not be "twinked" but still have appropriate gear for their level etc.

I noticed that when we had several lazy players in our team (players who had missing gear/outdated gear etc) we always lost.

It wasn't just the lack of gear either. These players ran around solo, did not stick with the team, did not assist their teammates, did not peel off healers and casters.

So it's a combination of poor playstyle and apathy towards improving their character.

[Kyera]

Meina -- you can certainly "hold your own" with average-to-slightly-above-average gear. Most people don't even come with that, queuing with "whatever they have". If you level up to craft your own armor, use RotF/IT weapons, and ask around for a runecrafter (basic runes are cheap, sometimes free with the right crafter), you can end up in pretty decent shape. My twink hits harder than the average 'pug' player, and I tend to outplay/outspec/outwork other twinks to get the edge, but I'm still pretty squishy.

The only real question marks are the source machine and essences, imo. You can get a decent source machine for 1500 planarite (4 greater/1 lesser), which is a heck of a grind, but it's made a mite easier if you have picked up the mobile app and can get a handful of Inscribed Sourcestones with it. The difficulty then becomes getting to a place where you can convert them. You can ask nicely, but if that fails, you can always run -- I ran my original crafter/crafting mule to every single porticulum without a single PvE death at level 7 (without dying was my goal), so you can EASILY just Soul Walk/suicide + respawn your way up to Whitefall no matter the faction. Essences are a mite tougher, especially for those of us sniping grapes from past world events, but you can get the same greaters and you can pick up decent blues without batting an eye (and two of the best lessers for any build are from the current event, so there's no excuse there).

Part of the problem is that you need to know these options exist, and how to get there, but part of that can be handled by merely asking questions. If you see some idiot facerolling, look at his gear and ask how he got it. He might not answer, but someone else might, and getting things like the mobile app and/or a source machine earlier on will be a huge asset as you go through the rest of the bracket. The same goes for leveling up a suitable tradeskill. Getting into a "leveling" guild can be a huge asset here as well, since they can help you stay geared up.

You're going to have the same problems when you get to 50 and try to PvP in "whatever you have" without asking questions or doing some research.

Yup, going from + 4 to +25 of your primary stat with 25 valor is "a bit above average" . . . if you count 600% as a bit...

I have a total of 44 valor. This amounts to a 4.6% damage reduction. The rune is +11 Stat, +25 Valor one; even factoring in Flawless Saintstone, which is +10 to the head slot, and assuming the comparable doesn't use any augment, this is a +17 Stat gain w/ an additional 4.6% damage reduction.

Using Saintstone Shard (the lowest tier augment) is +2, so that makes for a difference of +15 stat (still steep) including augment. If you can find a crafter who can make the item for you, you can find Saintstone (the 225 mats) pretty cheap -- some selling for 3g on the server I'm playing on -- and that's +4 Stat, for a difference of +13. You could also get Pure Thiefstone -- the blue level 300 -- which is +7 stat, making for a difference of +10. Once you are dealing with a player in a comparable place in the bracket -- keeping in mind that crafted helmets are available for level 19 -- you can slap a +6 Stat rune, and we're dealing with a difference of +8. For a difference of 12,500 favour and a quite a few plat. Versus another twink, who invested in the Flawless but didn't grab that head rune, it's a difference of +5.

Admittedly, the Pures are a little pricey, but if you're that committed to competing against the twinks in the bracket, you might be able to get someone to subsidize your gearing up. The upshot is that they're comparatively cheap to craft, especially if you can find someone willing to give you the Eternal Planar Dust (this is where, again, a good/leveling guild comes into play).

Of course, for other slots/items the gulf becomes narrower, especially for new twinks, and we're likely talking a potential difference of maybe 20-30 Spell Power across all slots, provided the low level player doesn't just half *** it and puts some effort into being appropriately geared. If they don't want to -- namely because they don't plan on sticking around or don't care -- that's entirely fine.

It's not like I'm trying to 'hide' any of my tricks or keep anything SEEKRIT. If it's any consolation, my other twinks don't have these toys and they're holding up just fine.~

[Meina]

Yup, going from + 4 to +25 of your primary stat with 25 valor is "a bit above average" . . . if you count 600% as a bit...

Wow, a semi logical rebuttal for once.

[Misun]

Perhaps someone should write up a guide with all of the information, places to get the stuff, etc. and request for it to be stickied.

Yes, I know there's "guides" out there on the web...but if you type in the word "twink" a lot of gay stuff comes up.

People need a guide here, on these forums.

[Kyera]

For reference, here's my rogue:

http://s435.photobucket.com/albums/q...4_123803-1.jpg

Here's the gear list (all crafted gear made w/ Flawless Thiefstone, all runes are BIS crafted), with the difference between this piece and an un-augmented, un-runed equivalent piece of crafted gear.

Nimble Thin Leather Hood - +10 Dex, +6 Str
Nimble Thin Leather Shoulders - +12 Dex, +3 Physical Crit
Nimble Thin Leather Brigandine - +15 Dex, +4 Attack Power
Nimble Thin Leather Gloves - +9 Dex, +6 Phys Crit
Nimble Thin Leather Belt - +12 Dex (includes +3 Silverwood faction rune)
Nimble Thin Leather Legs - +12 Dex, +4 Str
Nimble Thin Leather Boots - +9 Dex, +4 End

Nimble Scholar's Dagger - +10 Dex, +5 Attack Power
Nimble Scholar's Dagger - +10 Dex, +5 Attack Power
Renegade's Musket of the Warfront (drop) - +5 Attack Power

Nimble Keys to the Library - +9 Dex
Moneybags' Purse
Nimble Copper Ring - +8 Dex
Nimble Copper Ring - +8 Dex

This gives me a net stat advantage of: +124 Dex, +10 Str, +4 End, +9 Phys Crit, +19 Attack Power.
If the player runes their gear appropriately, this turns into: +116 Dex (all from Flawless Thiefstone).
If the player gets some mid-range augments (Thiefstone) and gets someone to craft for them, this turns into: +68 Dex
If the player is a super keener and goes a step up (Pure Thiefstone), this turns into: +43 Dex

For the sake of completeness, for a 19 rogue, +43 Dex works out to +22 AP (+2.2dps, aka a whetstone), 43 Phys Crit (~4% Crit), 43 Dodge (~3%), and 43 Deflect (I don't have an active RS build to find out what that gives) plus the gains from applicable passives.

Of course, some dungeon/drops items are better than crafted equivalents with lower level runes and/or lower level augments (especially the RotF 1h hammer for clerics), but those permutations are too numerous to examine efficiently for the sake of this discussion.

Note: None of the aforementioned kit results in a marked survivability increase above and beyond the 'typical' low level player who gets level-appropriate crafted gear (except when it gets paired with entry-level twinks and bolster or something like Guardian Phase). There is absolutely no denying it's a huge gap, and a huge dps gain, but the gap /can/ be closed. Hell, my gear choices here may not be ideal, and I might be overlooking some options, because I didn't really do a lot of research ahead of time online.

As for the sigil, it's a six slot sigil (with one empty slot, so 'equivalent' to the 1500 planarite 5-slotter). The Greater is available from the Silverwood and/or Freemarch faction vendors. The two essences on the right are the warrior/rogue ones from the current event. The two on the left are from the last event -- reasonable substitute blues can be acquired.

If the argument is that low-level players shouldn't be expected to have to get appropriately geared for fighting other players, that's a completely different argument, and not one I'm entirely sure I agree with (but I understand where it comes from).

@Misun -- I wouldn't object to a guide, to be honest, but I do have a soft spot for the independent research side of things.

[Misun]

WTB low level gearing guide with the result of it being stickied.

This would help a lot of new players too.

[Meina]

Perhaps someone should write up a guide with all of the information, places to get the stuff, etc. and request for it to be stickied.

Yes, I know there's "guides" out there on the web...but if you type in the word "twink" a lot of gay stuff comes up.

People need a guide here, on these forums.

Try 'rift twink guide' when you google, you'll get a lot less, shall we say, questionable material that way.

As for the stickied guide people are asking for, check out the PvP guides section of this forum. Licentia has a video and a short guide on how to gear low level toons there.

[Misun]

Try 'rift twink guide' when you google, you'll get a lot less, shall we say, questionable material that way.

As for the stickied guide people are asking for, check out the PvP guides section of this forum. Licentia has a video and a short guide on how to gear low level toons there.

Oh ok, I totally missed that guide then. He makes great guides too.

So I guess from now on when people make nerf twink threads, we should just link that guide.

[Bhrawn]

Nimble Thin Leather Hood - +10 Dex, +6 Str
Nimble Thin Leather Shoulders - +12 Dex, +3 Physical Crit
Nimble Thin Leather Brigandine - +15 Dex, +4 Attack Power
Nimble Thin Leather Gloves - +9 Dex, +6 Phys Crit
Nimble Thin Leather Belt - +12 Dex (includes +3 Silverwood faction rune)
Nimble Thin Leather Legs - +12 Dex, +4 Str
Nimble Thin Leather Boots - +9 Dex, +4 End

Nimble Scholar's Dagger - +10 Dex, +5 Attack Power
Nimble Scholar's Dagger - +10 Dex, +5 Attack Power
Renegade's Musket of the Warfront (drop) - +5 Attack Power

Nimble Keys to the Library - +9 Dex
Moneybags' Purse
Nimble Copper Ring - +8 Dex
Nimble Copper Ring - +8 Dex

A couple suggestions:

Replace the Moneybag with
Icon of Twilight - +1 Str, +3 Dex, +5 End, +2 AP.

Replace the Renegade's Musket of the Warfront with the augmented, crafted Silverwood Scholar's Bow:
Nimble Hunting Bow - +5 Str and +18 Dex.

Now you have FULL CRAFTED gear with the exception of the Trinket and Sigil. I only point this out because so many people complain that the best gear is World Event gear... and that's just not the case.

With the sole exceptions of the trinket, you can CRAFT it all or farm planarite for the sigil. There's ZERO reason any player can't get identical gear to yours (which is the current BiS.)

[Bhrawn]

Oh, one more thing:

If you have a 50, send 15 Inscribed Sourcestones to your Twink and have them convert those to 7500 Planarite for your 6-slot sigil.

Easy.

[Sariina]

Oh, one more thing:

If you have a 50, send 15 Inscribed Sourcestones to your Twink and have them convert those to 7500 Planarite for your 6-slot sigil.

Easy.

A nice easy 140P of augments spent on rolling newbs with half the stats.

[Kyera]

A couple suggestions:

Replace the Moneybag with
Icon of Twilight - +1 Str, +3 Dex, +5 End, +2 AP.

Replace the Renegade's Musket of the Warfront with the augmented, crafted Silverwood Scholar's Bow:
Nimble Hunting Bow - +5 Str and +18 Dex.

Was the icon the trinket from the first event? I ran out of currency from that. As for the bow, I had opted for the musket because the difference in weapon dps and the ability to drop the 18 AP augment seemed to be a better return than the difference in Dex/Crit, but yeah, that bow is definitely the best crafted option (especially as a warrior stat stick).

A nice easy 140P of augments spent on rolling newbs with half the stats.

Fortunately, they can spend a minimal amount and easily close that gap, should they choose. Or they can complain about it in /wf chat, or they can complain about it here. All viable options.

When I leave the raid for a handful of seconds (to go kill a twink spawn camping or, sometimes, to pick up a powerup in Black Garden) and watch it explode/collapse, I'm not all too convinced that gear is the main problem. Of course, maybe the reason they get rolled is because there's nobody to keep the twinks on the other side pinned into their spawn. ;)