Twinking and You - A gamers guide to dealing with the massive imbalance.

[Hugatree]

Ultimately the logic for twinking is specious. Let's say twinks are present. And they make a difference. They make a lot of difference especially when A) thy happen mostly on one side (defiants), and B) they hit for about half of my HP in one stroke. No exaggeration- had a 5000+ Hp warrior in the 30s bracket hitting everyone for 1800 a pop. Consider that Im 37, in world event purples and extraplanar gear and have 2800 Hp.

The argument for non twinks and twinks to coexist in the same warfront is tenuous - queue times. Fine. Let's take it that it is twinks and not the mercenary system that has contributed to lowered queue times. I would then argue it is the quality of the warfront(how much fun I had by being able to make a contribution) is being sacrificed for a higher quantity of warfronts. In fact this higher quantity doesn't mean much. Most games with twinks on one side end extremely quickly due to the extreme domination of that side. Library runes get held by one side (unless they decide to not hold them and steamroll the weaker side. So we have more games that end in minutes because of domination, or more games where we sit and get steamrolled by the 5000 Hp warriors while they shrug off my dots or fireballs.

Twinks so far propose two arguments for newer players facing twinks. 1. Gear up and fight back, because it is "quick and easy". 2. Level up and go on to the next bracket.

1. Gear up:
This is an option that is very limited for newer players who do not have 50 mains to boost their leveling currencies and time. It is also not as accessible or easy to be competitive as you might assume. The extraplanar epics, for example require multiple sourcestones and no small amount of planarite that need multiple zone events (unless you use vouchers from a main) to acquire. One would also argue the time spent to be competitive for the short while before you move on to the next bracket (where you get rolled again) is just pointless- unless you become a twink yourself.
I have been actively monitoring for such zone events with the rift app (abysmal win rates btw) and you know, they aren't as common in lvl 30 zones as you think they are. I've taken about a week to get two extraplanar items. even with those and a couple other purples from the world event, I'm sitting at 2800 hp while I've seen people stomp around with minimum 4000 Hp.

Point being the argument for "highly accessible" gear doesn't hold water. I still need to take the time to find out which runes meant for 50s are usable on lower gear (an exploit as clear as any). I still need to spend a disproportionate amount of time PVEING in order to be pvp competitive. In fact I'd wager that you NEED to xp lock to prevent out leveling while you are gathering your "competitive" gear!

So the bottom line is that we need to spend so much resources (to be comepetitivd in a low level bracket) just to "keep up" with twinks that we become twinks ourselves. I don't get why people don't see this.

Option 2 for new players. Level up and get out to the next bracket.

The "let's just dump you to the next bracket of twinks" argument. It doesn't solve anything. From 19, I graduate to 29 twinks to 39 twinks to 49 twinks. And the disparity at higher brackets are even more severe - you know this is true.

Ultimately the people that twinks callously label as "bads" and take enjoyment in steamrolling are the new players. Not less skilled, mind you. Less experienced and less geared.

These guys watch you veteran twinks laugh roll them in the 19 bracket. The 29 bracket. The 39 bracket.

And the only way to survive is become a twink themselves. Or more likely, drop their subscription because it plainly isn't fun to get 2/3 shotted in the span of a stun. When they leave in droves, the game suffers and everyone suffers.

The final question is: why are you competitive pvpers so insistent on maintaining a disparity in gear? Most pvpers in other games fight based on skill and gear is a secondary concern.

Tldr version:
Option 1 gear up and fight. - not as easy without a 50 main and significant time investment which could be spent on Getting to endgame content. Even if new players do this, they become twinks themselves, making it a unnecessary barrier to leveling and new players yet to experience the game.

Option 2: level to next bracket - only to get rolled by even more disproportionately powerful opponents? Endless cycle of frustration. More raging ensues.

Pvp is about competitive fair play. There is clearly a flaw in this fairness (even accounting for the somewhat gear-based nature of mmorpgs) and if you are a competitive pvper you would see that it's skill that should be the primary factor. Not inflated HP pools from expensive augments and pve items that by their nature aren't meant for PVP use.

Well said, admittedly I'm a newcomer. I'm simply stating what I have experienced, granted in a somewhat blundering way.

I've been a fan of the Dev's for years, and I'm honestly disappointed they let something like this occur.

Like I said there are alternatives for the Level Locked, Over Geared Twinks. The most effective and prominent would be Alternate WF's. This system has already been tested in other games and has been very effective in satisfying the needs of the Twinks vs. The average gamer.

[ShalarLight]

Riftstorm + Riftwalk is out of control, other than that, especially with mercenary system, the warfronts are usually pretty fun.

Might I suggest locking your xp for an afternoon and running some dungeons? I just got a hammer yesterday from the rare equipment cache that was comparable to my one hand/off hand player crafted weapons with purple augments. The dungeon equipment is pretty good in a lot of cases. Also go do some puzzles and cairnes, that gear tends to have more of the secondary stats like +spell power or +crit, the flat secondary stat increases are very strong.

[nemesauce]

1. [U]Twinking, creates an imbalance in the leveling process of Rift.

What exactly is this unbalance you speak of? Anyone can exp lock. And with the possible exception of 10-19, anyone can obtain competitive gear in a few days. There are numerous guides that explain exactly how to do this. If you don't want to spend a few days gearing up for the sub-50 wf's, what are you going do to at 50 when it takes months?

[Riwijo]

Having said that tonight, I participated in a WF with a Twink in the 30-39 Bracket. His damage total was 150k...The next closest was 63K. While a WF's with a balance of Twinks may actually balance out this without a doubt illustrates the ridiculous nature of the Twinking imbalance....He was above the combined damage of the 2nd and 3rd places. He without a doubt carried their team.

I play a twinked character at lvl 19, lvl 29 and lvl 39. I usually place in the upper range of damage total. The only time I place double what any other player is if I use my veteran favor potion to give me a 100% increase in my stats. I know you are trying to equate the player you mention in your post as having an unfair advantage (just look at his stats) due to twinking. But it could just as well have been because he drank his veteran favor potion which doubled his score.

You are making many statements about twinks in Rift that I have found, through experience, just are not true. The only place where gear bracketing is out of hand is post level 50 where you have upper ranked players outright dominating lower rank players. Below level 50 the 10 level ranks of the warfronts are too narrow for a twink to dominate a warfront. Well coordinated teams, or experienced players still dominate those warfronts. It is so easy to twink in these lower level warfronts, takes a day maybe two at the most, that I am finding both sides of any warfront populated by what you would call twinks. It is really just a matter of learning to play warfront PvP in Rift.

I would say, again from personal experience, that xp locking and twinking has saved PvP in Rift.

[Meina]

Some of you people are in for a very rude awakening when you reach 50.

[Starsong]

If "twinking" saved pvp in Rift, why are you twinks afraid and opposed to seperate ques? Exactly, cause it did not save pvp in Rift and the twinks would disappear in a day with seperate ques. Stop trying to force your bull on people that don't believe it and don't want it.

You tell people if they don't like getting killed by a twink to exp lock and twink themselves, what if they don't want too. They are paying customers just like you and being forced into a playstyle that is and never has been advertised as part of the game.

Support seperate ques if you truly believe the garbage you people in favor of exp locking and twinking are spewing.

[Jural]

I don't think there are nearly enough PvPers playing warfronts today to have separate queues. Already you see the same names in every warfront, hour after hour.

It's a pretty small "pool" waiting to play. And if one side is well-geared, you are stuck with them for a long while.

[spaceboots]

I don't think there are nearly enough PvPers playing warfronts today to have separate queues. Already you see the same names in every warfront, hour after hour.

It's a pretty small "pool" waiting to play. And if one side is well-geared, you are stuck with them for a long while.

Haven't had a ranked match in forever... even one of those fake ranked matches.

[Riwijo]

If "twinking" saved pvp in Rift, why are you twinks afraid and opposed to seperate ques? Exactly, cause it did not save pvp in Rift and the twinks would disappear in a day with seperate ques. Stop trying to force your bull on people that don't believe it and don't want it.

You tell people if they don't like getting killed by a twink to exp lock and twink themselves, what if they don't want too. They are paying customers just like you and being forced into a playstyle that is and never has been advertised as part of the game.

Support seperate ques if you truly believe the garbage you people in favor of exp locking and twinking are spewing.

Yeah I think we should slow ques down some more so you don't have to learn to play..... Your decision how you play. XP locking is part of the game and so are twinks. So it sounds like you are the one trying to impose a playstyle. Instead why don't you learn to adapt to the game. I know how hard it is to adapt but anybody can do it, just like twinking.

[Misun]

Haven't had a ranked match in forever... even one of those fake ranked matches.

I think people are leaving the game (again). There's not enough people playing now for consistent ranked matches.

Folks want challenging and meaningful pvp, they won't find it here.

I loved your last video btw and agree with nearly everything you said in it.

[MannSeastone]

Trion is probably not going to get rid of twinking until they've had a chance to see its effects. Twinks are a vocal minority. The silent majority of newbies are more likely to quit than throw good time after bad in an attempt to change the system.

Lowbie warfronts are like the Little Leagues of MMOs. Twinks are like grown men who continue to play at a Little League level thanks to loopholes in the rules. If you are a kid, or if you sympathize with kids, you decry the logic that led to these 6-foot monsters rampaging around the field, but talking to them doesn't get you anywhere. Their ranks are comprised of sociopaths, washouts, the physically untalented, the mentally ill. The ostracism they've faced hasn't deterred them from their choice. Some seem nice enough, but their contentions that this is their game, to play against each other, and that the children should wait a few years for their fun are puzzling.

In a way, though, they're right. It is their game. They've made it so by refusing to leave. Ordinary children tremble before the power of the manchild. The children are whispering among themselves. Fewer and fewer will take the field in the years to come. A child's potential is better realized in a more erstwhile game, one where he or she has room to learn and grow and breathe. But for the grown men on the fields, it's too late to learn and too frightening to change. In the setting sun you can see them them gamboling about, self-absorbed, ever apathetic to the plight of those they displace. You're welcome to set up a chair, if you like. They're going to be here a while.

[nemesauce]

1. Gear up:
This is an option that is very limited for newer players who do not have 50 mains to boost their leveling currencies and time. It is also not as accessible or easy to be competitive as you might assume. The extraplanar epics, for example require multiple sourcestones and no small amount of planarite that need multiple zone events (unless you use vouchers from a main) to acquire. One would also argue the time spent to be competitive for the short while before you move on to the next bracket (where you get rolled again) is just pointless- unless you become a twink yourself.
I have been actively monitoring for such zone events with the rift app (abysmal win rates btw) and you know, they aren't as common in lvl 30 zones as you think they are.

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. I returned to the game after several months on a Thursday, and by Sunday night I had bis gear in my level 29 cleric. I did it by following one of the various guides on how to obtain bis gear.

Regarding the zone events, they are more common on the more highly populated servers. So do what I did and move to a more populated server. Or do the other thing that I did, which is to install the iPhone app. I win 2-3 corrupted sourcestones per day by spending about 15 minutes playing lootables.

There are a lot of misconceptions and misinformation floating around regarding geared toons in the sub-50 brackets. My advice for anyone having difficulty in these brackets is to spend a few minutes reading a guide on obtaining gear, install the iPhone app, lock your exp and spend a few days gearing up. At that point you'll be on a level playing field with everyone else, and you can start to enjoy the sub-50 brackets.

BTW: I've now played extensively in the sub-50 brackets and I can tell you that your specific build is just as important (or more) than your gear. Certain builds are simply much more viable than others. So do what I did: when you lose a fight to someone, go back and review your combat log and see what skills and rotation they used. From this you can easily infer their build and the macros they are using.

[nemesauce]

btw: if someone has questions about playing a cleric or warrior in the 20-29 please feel free to me message me. i can help with gear, builds etc.

[Jural]

Trion is probably not going to get rid of twinking until they've had a chance to see its effects. Twinks are a vocal minority. The silent majority of newbies are more likely to quit than throw good time after bad in an attempt to change the system.

Lowbie warfronts are like the Little Leagues of MMOs. Twinks are like grown men who continue to play at a Little League level thanks to loopholes in the rules. If you are a kid, or if you sympathize with kids, you decry the logic that led to these 6-foot monsters rampaging around the field, but talking to them doesn't get you anywhere. Their ranks are comprised of sociopaths, washouts, the physically untalented, the mentally ill. The ostracism they've faced hasn't deterred them from their choice. Some seem nice enough, but their contentions that this is their game, to play against each other, and that the children should wait a few years for their fun are puzzling.

In a way, though, they're right. It is their game. They've made it so by refusing to leave. Ordinary children tremble before the power of the manchild. The children are whispering among themselves. Fewer and fewer will take the field in the years to come. A child's potential is better realized in a more erstwhile game, one where he or she has room to learn and grow and breathe. But for the grown men on the fields, it's too late to learn and too frightening to change. In the setting sun you can see them them gamboling about, self-absorbed, ever apathetic to the plight of those they displace. You're welcome to set up a chair, if you like. They're going to be here a while.

A little dramatic and judgmental, don't you think?

I stopped playing 50 warfronts because it I found it more fun to make a strong character in 5 days at 29, than to get slaughtered by P30s and p40s for a couple of months.

I think I made a smart choice. I now have a very competitive character, and it did not have to waste 200 hours as cannon fodder.

I have a p15 rogue, and a p19 mage.

[nemesauce]

A little dramatic and judgmental, don't you think?

I stopped playing 50 warfronts because it I found it more fun to make a strong character in 5 days at 29, than to get slaughtered by P30s and p40s for a couple of months.

I think I made a smart choice. I now have a very competitive character, and it did not have to waste 200 hours as cannon fodder.

I have a p15 rogue, and a p19 mage.

I agree. If it took less time to get endgame PvP gear, there would be less interest in exp locking. I know they want to reward people that have been playing for a long time, but there is substantial risk in allowing too much of a gear differential in endgame PvP gear. I believe that RR100 premades were one of the major factors in the decline of Warhammer Online PvP.

BTW: I am making some assumptions here about the endgame PvP experience, since I don't currently play at 50. I've heard anecdotally that it can take months to get to P40 or whatever. If that is not correct, please let me know. I've only recently returned to the game. Thanks