Solution for the anti-merc crowd: opt out with penalties

[Baramos]

This theory works for every single variation in numbers you can think of except where there are not enough people to start a warfront in the first place, so all of the complaints about "if everyone doesn't play then the system won't work" are invalid.

Say 100% of guardians choose not to merc and 100% of defiants also choose not to merc. Now there is a pool of 100 guardians wanting to queue up and say 150 defiants also wanting to. The guardians will be getting in very very fast while defiants once again wait for the queues to pop.

I know this is an extreme and is how warfronts used to be but I honestly don't see any way to get rid of mercing as it stands now. Hoping more and more games choose factionless games as we move forward.

[psionicalpha]

Say 100% of guardians choose not to merc and 100% of defiants also choose not to merc. Now there is a pool of 100 guardians wanting to queue up and say 150 defiants also wanting to. The guardians will be getting in very very fast while defiants once again wait for the queues to pop.

I know this is an extreme and is how warfronts used to be but I honestly don't see any way to get rid of mercing as it stands now. Hoping more and more games choose factionless games as we move forward.

Which is why I said "except where there aren't enough people to start a warfront." I acknowledged here are crazy extreme cases however I can't imagine that the entire side would opt out.

[Starsong]

The best soloution is get rid of it and if you do not want que times Defiant, reroll some Guardians. Why should a Guardian be penalized to not que with Defiants? Far as the attitude it will not change, no such thing. Just because at this moment Trion says no, does not mean that if enough of us that think it is absolutely ******ed to be FORCED to fight with the opposing faction speak out might change their minds. Penalizing someone that does not want to be forced to fight with the opposing faction? That is just as ******ed as the merc system in the first place. How about we just penalize every Defiant if 1/3 do not choose to reroll Guardian and fix the population imbalance? I like that soloution much better!

[Baramos]

Which is why I said "except where there aren't enough people to start a warfront." I acknowledged here are crazy extreme cases however I can't imagine that the entire side would opt out.

But there would been enough players to start a warfront had their not be an option to opt-out of being a merc as suggested.

I guess I am part of the pro merc crowd and biased even though I probably shouldn't be.

I, like many other pvpers anticipated that a majority of the pvp base would be defiant so I went guardian which would help two things.

1. Faster queue times being the outnumbered faction.
2. Facing the faction that had the most pvpers in it for better competition.

That is the same thing that got me to play republic in that other bad game and it also backfired there.

Mercing here made that irrelevant as did huttball in swtor.

If I would have to do it all again I wouldn't change it since I have met a lot of great guardians but I will definitely keep it in mind the next time I play a game with factions.

[Meina]

Say 100% of guardians choose not to merc and 100% of defiants also choose not to merc. Now there is a pool of 100 guardians wanting to queue up and say 150 defiants also wanting to. The guardians will be getting in very very fast while defiants once again wait for the queues to pop.

I know this is an extreme and is how warfronts used to be but I honestly don't see any way to get rid of mercing as it stands now. Hoping more and more games choose factionless games as we move forward.

Yeah, that's a very extreme case. In fact, I'd say your grasping at straws.

First, the chance of all the players in queue opting out is pretty much nil. According to most of the people here, and Trion based on their "Vocal Minority" statement, only a small portion of the player base would end up opting out.

Second, if we find everyone is talking out of their butts, and that 100% of the people queuing decide to opt out, that would mean that 100% of the people queuing feel that the merc system sucks for one reason or another. If this is the case, Trion better start looking for an alternative to the merc system.

[Baramos]

Yeah, that's a very extreme case. In fact, I'd say your grasping at straws.

I was just giving an example. I am a guardian and while I enjoy killing my fellow guardians when I merc I basically could care less. When I play my alt defiant on the other hand I want the fastest possible queue times possible.

But like you said only a small portion of the pvp playerbase would opt out so what would be the point. Why would they add something only a small portion want when they don't even add things that the pvp majority want?

[Meina]

I was just giving an example. I am a guardian and while I enjoy killing my fellow guardians when I merc I basically could care less. When I play my alt defiant on the other hand I want the fastest possible queue times possible.

But like you said only a small portion of the pvp playerbase would opt out so what would be the point. Why would they add something only a small portion want when they don't even add things that the pvp majority want?

Like I said way back on page one, this is a dead issue. Trion already gave us their verdict. while i'm not entirely happy with that verdict, I'll live with it until something better comes along.

The problem I do have, however, is that people insist on stirring up crap with their "People who don't like to play the way I do should be punished" BS and people who cite outrageous, worst case scenarios to support their arguments.

[Appendy]

Right now queue times are too fast, I don't have time to quest between pops on my alts and run factions grinds on my r40s.

Wat? Do you have perma-queue set and does it force you into the warfront?



(btw nice troll)

[Baramos]

Like I said way back on page one, this is a dead issue. Trion already gave us their verdict.

I understand this and backing said verdict.

Dead horse is dead.

[Credo]

Merc isn't necessary and your idea is awful.

[Cinnamontoast]

The merc system is necessary. End of story.

But what if you really, really, REALLY don't want to play alongside the opposing faction?

How about this: if you turn merc "off", you queue with a 50% penalty to favor/prestige/experience gains.

You're choosing not to participate in the system that is providing everyone with faster queues, more favor/prestige, and a fantastically improved overall pvp experience, so you don't get to enjoy the benefits of said system. You'll still have short 1-2m queues, but your rate of favor/presitge/xp will be more like what we saw on average from the previous system.

Oh, and max-geared P40 players who don't merc? Since they have no need for favor/prestige, they suffer a 5% penalty to all stats and 100% reduction in experience gain.

Well, I found a solution that should make all you pro merc trolls very happy.... I've switched games to one where they honor the factions being different and don't have twinks in with regular players in wfs. Very simple really, and I'm sure TW will be thrilled as well to have my money go to one of the many competitors..

And I won't be around here either anymore.. so have a great time all.

[Violacea]

Well, I found a solution that should make all you pro merc trolls very happy.... I've switched games to one where they honor the factions being different and don't have twinks in with regular players in wfs. Very simple really, and I'm sure TW will be thrilled as well to have my money go to one of the many competitors..

And I won't be around here either anymore.. so have a great time all.

I came close to rage quitting over miracle hp bars. I want to punch my screen everytime I just fight an eternally regenning bar of green. I can do the same thing on training dummies. But if I leave, it isn't Trions fault, just me exercising free choice and will - and who shouldn't have a right to that?

Twinks are a paradox because - if you hate twinking, you are probably thinking of your 50 end game in mind, and you'll level past it and it will just be a slice of your time progressing towards your ultimate goal. If you enjoy the low level pvp that much, I'd assume that player would become a twink themselves. So if you hate it, you leave it by soon. If you love it, you should be twinking so you can never leave it behind.

Factions are honored fine. The merc thing is nothing short of intelligent game design. Start your own game and make 3 factions, repsect them all, and code a match making system that pools from 3 different pools while all your players tell you long que times suck. Unfortunately people saying long que times suck, didn't realize, that was an inherent thing you had to take if a game was going to take an archaic approach and make a 2 pooling system. Even Eq2 got this one right on the first try (red vs blue, not qeynos vs freeport).

Lets write this phrase on the board 10x

Mercs are intelligent game design
Mercs are intelligent game design...

That is the only reason it was done. The old way was non-intelligent game design. People here are more concerned half the time with pointing fingers and emotional threats though. I try to speak on ideas with as little bias. I can't call this spade anything else than a spade.

[Malignos]

The merc system is necessary. End of story.

But what if you really, really, REALLY don't want to play alongside the opposing faction?

How about this: if you turn merc "off", you queue with a 50% penalty to favor/prestige/experience gains.

You're choosing not to participate in the system that is providing everyone with faster queues, more favor/prestige, and a fantastically improved overall pvp experience, so you don't get to enjoy the benefits of said system. You'll still have short 1-2m queues, but your rate of favor/presitge/xp will be more like what we saw on average from the previous system.

Oh, and max-geared P40 players who don't merc? Since they have no need for favor/prestige, they suffer a 5% penalty to all stats and 100% reduction in experience gain.

OR you could not pigeonhole your player base.

[handerhank]

You mean "we all currently enjoy, at the expense of those who hate being the mercs that are 'needed' to make it happen".

Yup, sounds like the usual self-centered view we see a lot.

So if a system improves play for the vast majority of players at the expense of a definite minority, the people who support this system are being self-centered?

Here's a good one: what happens to the game as a whole if a bunch of players quit because of queue times? Trion nets less money. They reinvest less in the game. The entire experience suffers - including yours.

How can people be so incredibly short/near-sighted? Your accusation of selfishness should have crashed the forums under the sheer weight of its irony.

[Starsong]

So if a system improves play for the vast majority of players at the expense of a definite minority, the people who support this system are being self-centered?

Here's a good one: what happens to the game as a whole if a bunch of players quit because of queue times? Trion nets less money. They reinvest less in the game. The entire experience suffers - including yours.

How can people be so incredibly short/near-sighted? Your accusation of selfishness should have crashed the forums under the sheer weight of its irony.

Where is your data to back your "facts" of the vast majority supporting the merc system? You have no data to prove that, in fact, I say the vast majority do NOT back the merc system. No one in my guild likes the merc system. So I say my statement is more easily supported than yours, cause I have asked and gotten answers from paying customers, not assumptions like you have. Who is to say the merc system hasn't cost them more paying customers than not having it would?

Again if you are Defiant and do not like long que times, reroll or play your already leveled Guardian instead of your Defiant. Most pvpers I know have a 50 Guardian and a 50 Defiant, so fix the population imbalance yourself, instead of expecting a game company to do it for you.