GM conversation regarding the future of RIFT PvP

[CPK]

The following compilation of screenshots are a conversation between Daglar and a guildie of mine who doesn't come to the forums much, while testing some of the new 1.8 changes in PvP. Here is the conversation.

http://i.imgur.com/seGiL.jpg

This is extremely troubling to me. Essentially, even though he wasn't very detailed in his responses, we can basically derive from here that:

1. The devs are aware of the disparities between PvP and PvE gear, especially between weapons, but they have no plans to address them because they can't figure out an alternative. With ID coming in 1.8, a new tier of raid gear will be introduced, increasing this gap and essentially requiring any competitive player to PvE.

2. There will be no new PvP content in 1.8 (I assumed this, anyway).

3. This one was my favorite - leaderboards will be a casual-friendly system because Trion does not want to hurt the bad players' feelings.

I like RIFT, but I honestly don't know where to go with this. It's not just the points that were addressed directly that bother me, but rather what the entire conversation implied. The fact that a PvP tier set will not be releasing with ID just tells me that they don't really care at all. Furthermore, as I feared, the game is becoming more and more simplified to cater to the bads instead of to reward the skilled. For instance, instead of implementing an actual ranking system that stimulates competition, they create a system that reflects time played. Additionally, more and more specs are being eliminated in PvP (mine included), pigeon-holing us even further into one optimal spec.

So, for those of you who have been left in the dark, this is the direction of PvP in RIFT. I'm afraid it will only continue to get worse until it is slowly removed from the game, or at least made so pointless that nobody participates anymore (not competitively, at least). Ultimately, I posted this because I want the PvP community to be informed, since there is so little communication between us and the devs anymore. So, by all means, make your own conclusions based on the above conversation screenshot, as these conclusions are only my own.

[Am0n]

Gonna read the screenies then shoot you a PM, been trying to get ahold of you for a while now, havent seen you on here.

[Licentia]

I hate reading conversations like that. It's painful. Reading that I just pictured a guy in a Star Trek uniform with his glasses slipping down his nose with the "Are you aware that.." and "I shouldn't have to tell you..."

I think the decision not to release new PvP gear with 1.8 is disappointing. That's my personal point of view. And it's my personal point of view because I have no interest in raiding. At all. But at the end of the day, 13 PvE shards and 3 PvP shards makes it pretty clear which side of the PvE/PvP fence is going to get preferential treatment. I know the devs wouldn't word it that way, but that's what it is. It basically amounts to, "We could release new PvP gear with 1.8, but then the raiders will be mad at us because they feel they have to PvP to gear for PvE, and they'll progress through the content faster than intended because they'll be gearing up faster than intended. In the end, this means that people who focus on PvP are going to be at a disadvantage relative to raiders until we get the new PvP gear out, but if someone has to be pissed off, it might as well be the minority."

It's cool. I understand. I didn't star t playing Rift for the PvP but that's where I ended up spending most of my time. And when I realized that there might be alternatives more suited to my liking in terms of variety and scope of content, as well as different approaches to itemization and power creep from gear-based progression, I decided not to renew my Rift sub. No hard feelings, no angsty rage posts, and no need to rush out and get a Star Trek uniform, fake glasses, and a tub of vaseline to lube up my nose. It is what it is, and I wish Trion the best of luck.

[Am0n]

I hate reading conversations like that. It's painful. Reading that I just pictured a guy in a Star Trek uniform with his glasses slipping down his nose with the "Are you aware that.." and "I shouldn't have to tell you..."

I think the decision not to release new PvP gear with 1.8 is disappointing. That's my personal point of view. And it's my personal point of view because I have no interest in raiding. At all. But at the end of the day, 13 PvE shards and 3 PvP shards makes it pretty clear which side of the PvE/PvP fence is going to get preferential treatment. I know the devs wouldn't word it that way, but that's what it is. It basically amounts to, "We could release new PvP gear with 1.8, but then the raiders will be mad at us because they feel they have to PvP to gear for PvE, and they'll progress through the content faster than intended because they'll be gearing up faster than intended. In the end, this means that people who focus on PvP are going to be at a disadvantage relative to raiders until we get the new PvP gear out, but if someone has to be pissed off, it might as well be the minority."

It's cool. I understand. I didn't star t playing Rift for the PvP but that's where I ended up spending most of my time. And when I realized that there might be alternatives more suited to my liking in terms of variety and scope of content, as well as different approaches to itemization and power creep from gear-based progression, I decided not to renew my Rift sub. No hard feelings, no angsty rage posts, and no need to rush out and get a Star Trek uniform, fake glasses, and a tub of vaseline to lube up my nose. It is what it is, and I wish Trion the best of luck.

I was hopin Trion would give us PvPers a big hug with 1.8 and say "please dont go"
WHY THEY NO LIEK UZ!

[Licentia]

I was hopin Trion would give us PvPers a big hug with 1.8 and say "please dont go"
WHY THEY NO LIEK UZ!

I don't know why anyone would be wondering about new PvP content with 1.8 at this point. If it was coming, we'd have been told weeks ago. The only thing I thought we'd for sure see was the new tier of PvP gear with 1.8 (and frankly, I was not at all looking forward to it, even though I know many others are).

I understand the reasoning for not adding it, and I don't resent Trion for it. They made the game they made, I feel like I got my money's worth out of the last year worth of subscriptions, and that's all it needs to be for me. I'm not going to be another one of those guys who keeps playing a game I no longer enjoy just so I can be miserable and stink up the forums with cynicism. Maybe the plans they have for post-1.8 PvP additions will be just the thing to pique my interest. Maybe not. Time will tell.

I just don't know what's more disappointing...realizing we're in the back seat behind the PvE folks, or seeing clear screenshot confirmation that yes, Virginia, MMO gamers really CAN be socially inept.

[Violacea]

The only painful part was hearing such dumb questions asked. Yet again, sounds like most of the stuff I been predicting and assuming is true per their (the devs) word. +1 to the 'times I'm right' tally.

Seriously, the interviewer couldn't even speak to a dev without crying about the fickle notion of jumping ship to over games when they didn't hear exactly what they want, or rather, hear that what they want is coming in 1.8 instead of 1.9 (or sooner). Jumping to the conclusion that people without valor are going to be dominating the warfronts. I'll keep it short and use that word dumb again because I could replicate that convo in length pointing these things out.

Good news to me, glad to see those answers. Just lets me know I'm not 100% hopeful-naive in thinking the devs are clueless to things. Also lets me know that they want to do things right and realize you can't put a band-aid on something you are trying to cure. Band-aids don't cure things, they just make it better till it gets too painful again and needs a bigger one, at least when using that metaphor for a video game.

[Am0n]

The only painful part was hearing such dumb questions asked. Yet again, sounds like most of the stuff I been predicting and assuming is true per their (the devs) word. +1 to the 'times I'm right' tally.

Seriously, the interviewer couldn't even speak to a dev without crying about the fickle notion of jumping ship to over games when they didn't hear exactly what they want, or rather, hear that what they want is coming in 1.8 instead of 1.9 (or sooner). Jumping to the conclusion that people without valor are going to be dominating the warfronts. I'll keep it short and use that word dumb again because I could replicate that convo in length pointing these things out.

Good news to me, glad to see those answers. Just lets me know I'm not 100% hopeful-naive in thinking the devs are clueless to things. Also lets me know that they want to do things right and realize you can't put a band-aid on something you are trying to cure. Band-aids don't cure things, they just make it better till it gets too painful again and needs a bigger one, at least when using that metaphor for a video game.

Pssh I dont know what you are on
Bandaids fix my booboos so hmph

[CPK]

I hate reading conversations like that. It's painful. Reading that I just pictured a guy in a Star Trek uniform with his glasses slipping down his nose with the "Are you aware that.." and "I shouldn't have to tell you..."

I think the decision not to release new PvP gear with 1.8 is disappointing. That's my personal point of view. And it's my personal point of view because I have no interest in raiding. At all. But at the end of the day, 13 PvE shards and 3 PvP shards makes it pretty clear which side of the PvE/PvP fence is going to get preferential treatment. I know the devs wouldn't word it that way, but that's what it is. It basically amounts to, "We could release new PvP gear with 1.8, but then the raiders will be mad at us because they feel they have to PvP to gear for PvE, and they'll progress through the content faster than intended because they'll be gearing up faster than intended. In the end, this means that people who focus on PvP are going to be at a disadvantage relative to raiders until we get the new PvP gear out, but if someone has to be pissed off, it might as well be the minority."

It's cool. I understand. I didn't star t playing Rift for the PvP but that's where I ended up spending most of my time. And when I realized that there might be alternatives more suited to my liking in terms of variety and scope of content, as well as different approaches to itemization and power creep from gear-based progression, I decided not to renew my Rift sub. No hard feelings, no angsty rage posts, and no need to rush out and get a Star Trek uniform, fake glasses, and a tub of vaseline to lube up my nose. It is what it is, and I wish Trion the best of luck.

Not sure how Star Trek uniforms have anything to do with this at all, but I respect your strange imagination I guess.

There is no anger or rage whatsoever in this post, only information as well as the conclusions I've drawn from it. Not only are their decisions disappointing, though, they are completely destructive to the PvP community and pretty much a slap in the face to all non-raiding guilds. You can talk about majorities all you want, but at the end of the day, ignoring any section of your player-base, no matter how small, will result in losses of subs. This is a fact, not a threat. What is happening with 1.8 is basically a complete lack of consistency in coming through with what was pretty much expected by this community. If you come out with a new tier in one area of the game, you match that tier in other areas of the game - otherwise you end up severing those areas entirely. There are a number of small things that could be done, that would have taken very, very few resources, that could have served as some form of temporary solution. Instead, it is evident that absolutely no effort has been made to even attempt to address the problems that they are admittedly aware of. This says a lot about the company in general, beyond a small thing such as neglecting minority that they've led on over the past year. It basically says, "Hey, we appreciate you guys playing our game, but now we're just going to take a new direction. Thanks for your money." I've never seen this as an acceptable mentality, nor has anyone I've ever known. The damage 1.8 will do to RIFT's PvP is tremendous to the point of killing it off altogether, so yes, I do feel that the community should be aware of it. I really hope something is done, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Eughe]

"well I'm going to gw2"

How big a **** are you?
He said he understand your complaints about and they have plans for patches after 1.8
In one of the interviews it looks like they already has a set plan on what each patch will entail.
He said there are going to be more things happening after 1.8

And all you can muster up to say every ****ing line was "do you know"
"pvp guilds blah blah blah" "I'm going to gw2"

I'd probably block you mid sentence. If you are going then you are of no real concern quite honestly.

[Am0n]

"well I'm going to gw2"

How big a **** are you?
He said he understand your complaints about and they have plans for patches after 1.8
In one of the interviews it looks like they already has a set plan on what each patch will entail.
He said there are going to be more things happening after 1.8

And all you can muster up to say every ****ing line was "do you know"
"pvp guilds blah blah blah" "I'm going to gw2"

I'd probably block you mid sentence. If you are going then you are of no real concern quite honestly.

Just to be clear, CPK wasn't the one interviewing lol.
Don't attack the messenger

[Eughe]

Just to be clear, CPK wasn't the one interviewing lol.
Don't attack the messenger

Well whoever it was did a pretty terrible job of trying to get anything by preventing every statment with a passive aggressive threat of leaving.

[Am0n]

Well whoever it was did a pretty terrible job of trying to get anything by preventing every statment with a passive aggressive threat of leaving.

Legionarre or w/e Dag says it in one of his replies

[CPK]

The only painful part was hearing such dumb questions asked. Yet again, sounds like most of the stuff I been predicting and assuming is true per their (the devs) word. +1 to the 'times I'm right' tally.

Seriously, the interviewer couldn't even speak to a dev without crying about the fickle notion of jumping ship to over games when they didn't hear exactly what they want, or rather, hear that what they want is coming in 1.8 instead of 1.9 (or sooner). Jumping to the conclusion that people without valor are going to be dominating the warfronts. I'll keep it short and use that word dumb again because I could replicate that convo in length pointing these things out.

Good news to me, glad to see those answers. Just lets me know I'm not 100% hopeful-naive in thinking the devs are clueless to things. Also lets me know that they want to do things right and realize you can't put a band-aid on something you are trying to cure. Band-aids don't cure things, they just make it better till it gets too painful again and needs a bigger one, at least when using that metaphor for a video game.

You'd be interested to know that the interviewer has HK leggies of his own, and prefers them over PvP gear due to the clear superiority of leggy weapons for +hit and extra dps, as well as the crystal bonuses (which are actually worth a damn, unlike the PvP ones). Why do warriors use Kraken Spines instead of p36 axes/swords? If you don't see the problems that are about to stem from all this, you're blind.

[AceinHole]

1. The devs are aware of the disparities between PvP and PvE gear, especially between weapons, but they have no plans to address them because they can't figure out an alternative. With ID coming in 1.8, a new tier of raid gear will be introduced, increasing this gap and essentially requiring any competitive player to PvE.

This right here should be reason enough for all PvP players in this game to give an ultimatum to Trion. Fix this or we quit. Of course most of us ARE quitting anyway when GW2 comes out. Trion probably already know this and is thus further reason for them not to care.

3. This one was my favorite - leaderboards will be a casual-friendly system because Trion does not want to hurt the bad players' feelings.

They've got to keep the carebear PvE heroes happy. Although with the insane gap between PvE and PvP gear, these PvE heroes will dominate warfronts, no matter how bad they are.

So, by all means, make your own conclusions based on the above conversation screenshot, as these conclusions are only my own.

I think your conclusions are the only ones that can be reasonably drawn.

[Am0n]

This right here should be reason enough for all PvP players in this game to give an ultimatum to Trion. Fix this or we quit. Of course most of us ARE quitting anyway when GW2 comes out. Trion probably already know this and is thus further reason for them not to care.



They've got to keep the carebear PvE heroes happy. Although with the insane gap between PvE and PvP gear, these PvE heroes will dominate warfronts, no matter how bad they are.



I think your conclusions are the only ones that can be reasonably drawn.

clean your inbox, and fix your sig judging by post count i am a minimal 3x better forum pvper than you =P