To all those who complains about Twinks

[TheBidnis]

Not 100% of the time.

Also not every P40 is equal, not each player has access to HK gear (Champ 4 piece for instance). Not to mention the difference between P35 and P36+ is rather large.

Furthermore, not every WF match is ranked. Many a time my P40 finds itself matched againts P0-40, just as my P6 finds itself in those matches.

Does 50 PvP offer some semblance of balance? While most posts on PvP and class forums would suggest not, they are certainly better balanced than 10-49. But that balance only extends to Trion attempting to segregate. Gear differentials are much easier to over-come in pre 50 PvP, where everyone has access to the gear (especially true at present with old world event items being readily available).

Don't kid yourself, when you're topping charts in WFs you're no different than these twinks you attempt to villify. The difference is, you took longer to get there. So perhaps the case isn't that you're against twinking, you're just against others being #1 when their guild tag doesn't read Vodoo, or their level read 50.

What you said here is untrue. a level 10 does not have access to the same gear as a 19 or the same abilities.

At least at level 50 there is a big disparity between gear but not in abilities trained. at *9 you have upwards of 4 new or higher level abilities than the level *0 who hasn't gotten the ability due to level restriction. And also gear such as Planar and PvP low level gear is separated by levels also.

[Kiershar]

TheBidnis and Rizaz, your intellectual dishonesty is appalling.

Please step out of this conversation while you still have dignity. Every single arguments you keep spouting have been addressed and your logic is completely twisted and biased.

To everyone else, please stop addressing them.

[nemecis]

What you said here is untrue. a level 10 does not have access to the same gear as a 19 or the same abilities.

At least at level 50 there is a big disparity between gear but not in abilities trained. at *9 you have upwards of 4 new or higher level abilities than the level *0 who hasn't gotten the ability due to level restriction. And also gear such as Planar and PvP low level gear is separated by levels also.

Then what you're describing has nothing to do with twinks, it has to do with the dynamic nature of pre 50 PvP. Technically this exists @ 50 as well. There are those with 100's of PA levels, and those with none or only a hand full.

So again, this has nothing to do with twinks, this existed long before the XP lock was introduced. XP locking just made it perhaps more pervasive. For that matter an *0 lvl player should fear an *9 lvl player in their bracket.

FYI, a twink lvl 10 rivals a twink lvl 19 due to how stats scale. @ lvl 10 I've had nearly 50% crit chance and through bolstering, equivalent stats to even the beefiest of twinks. The difference in skills available while noticable, is not game breaking.

Finally, Planar gear is available at the LOW ends of the bracket. You can have a full source core by the time you leave the starting zone (ie. lvl 6) as well as weapons that are the equivalent of level 18 blues. Most of the complaints seem to stem from 10-19, where my ascertation that gear equality is avaialable to all holds true (with 1 dagger which can no longer be attained being the exception).

For other brackets, the planar goods merchands and PvP merchants do not offer gear just for high levels, they jump eratically all over the level spectrum. Some being available @ *0, *5, *8 and everything in between.

No my statement is not false, you need to do your homework.

[TheBidnis]

For other brackets, the planar goods merchands and PvP merchants do not offer gear just for high levels, they jump eratically all over the level spectrum. Some being available @ *0, *5, *8 and everything in between.

No my statement is not false, you need to do your homework.

Yes it is because bolstering does not mean i have a new ability at lvl *0 that you have at *9. New abilities are the biggest thing other than gear. You have more abilities so you have more in your arsenal i.e. meaning you have an ability that I do not have and can use it while I have to use the antiquated abilities that you have passed through.

And yes items are available just like you said at 0 5 8 which means the 8 is better than the 0 gear giving the disperity. And if you are shooting for level 50 and not a Twink you are saving all your favor for the higher level gear when you get there.

[Rizaz]

Not 100% of the time.

Also not every P40 is equal, not each player has access to HK gear (Champ 4 piece for instance). Not to mention the difference between P35 and P36+ is rather large.

Furthermore, not every WF match is ranked. Many a time my P40 finds itself matched againts P0-40, just as my P6 finds itself in those matches.

Does 50 PvP offer some semblance of balance? While most posts on PvP and class forums would suggest not, they are certainly better balanced than 10-49. But that balance only extends to Trion attempting to segregate. Gear differentials are much easier to over-come in pre 50 PvP, where everyone has access to the gear (especially true at present with old world event items being readily available).

Don't kid yourself, when you're topping charts in WFs you're no different than these twinks you attempt to villify. The difference is, you took longer to get there. So perhaps the case isn't that you're against twinking, you're just against others being #1 when their guild tag doesn't read Vodoo, or their level read 50.

Voodoo****

[TheBidnis]

TheBidnis and Rizaz, your intellectual dishonesty is appalling.

Please step out of this conversation while you still have dignity. Every single arguments you keep spouting have been addressed and your logic is completely twisted and biased.

To everyone else, please stop addressing them.

Why ty and again this is just your opinion just like I am stating my opinion on why I don't like it. And again you choose to address me and then tell everyone else not too. That is some pretty messed up Logic I have ever seen.

[Ax1om]

Even NCSoft has learned its lesson, when it came to twinking. Trion will do that as well.

[nemecis]

1. I am not basing any arguement on unproven/false assumptions you can't just jump into a WF and know what to do from the 1st try you go in and have a learning curve of the things you are good at and not good at in each WF scenario.

too bad that's not the point you've been making. If this is, you've yet to prove that twinking adversely affects one's ability to learn. I'd suggest that the presence of those with better gear / more skill / more knowledge HELP one learn, if only that person takes the time to inspect their gear, and ask questions. (which given the merc system is more possible now than ever)

2. My argument is that I and others enjoyed it before the Twinks This IS a fact. You and people already coerced Trion to put these Twinks in by framing YOUR argument with unverifiable "facts" like "Twinking is an enjoyable part of the game" BOTH OPINIONS JUST LIKE MINE.

Technically, twinks have always existed. They simply leveled out of brackets eventually. I've been twinking since 1.0.

I don't remember ever personally coercing Trion or even petitioning them to introduce an XP lock. I was surprised to see them introduce it, but was happy to have it. Perhaps you can direct me to the threads where this did take place, because I've never seen them.

Twinking IS an enjoyable part of the game. (for some) That IS a fact ... it's a fact because it IS my opinion, and the opinon of manyothers. The problem is you make statements like "twinking is killing the game" which is not a fact. Certainly not supported by any evidence. If however, you said "I don't like twinking, and for me, it's ruining the game." then that would be a statement of fact.

If you cannot tell the difference therin, twinks are the least of your problems.

3. When you can see both sides of an argument let me know. You are closed minded to what you want and unwilling to listen to the other side.

I'm willing to listen when the other side actually presents an argument and stops making false statements of fact. In fact, I do see the other side of the argument, which is "some people don't like twinks." That's a valid point of view. However, this point of view has rarely been supported with evidence as to why Trion should change the status quo. Instead the arguments regularly devolve into twink bashing, and the afore mentioned false statement of facts ... which are actually assumptions and opinions.

I think you fall under the personality of my first sig.

/golf clap --- also don't be so quick to call the kettle black Mr Pot.

[nemecis]

Yes it is because bolstering does not mean i have a new ability at lvl *0 that you have at *9. New abilities are the biggest thing other than gear. You have more abilities so you have more in your arsenal i.e. meaning you have an ability that I do not have and can use it while I have to use the antiquated abilities that you have passed through.

And yes items are available just like you said at 0 5 8 which means the 8 is better than the 0 gear giving the disperity. And if you are shooting for level 50 and not a Twink you are saving all your favor for the higher level gear when you get there.

You clearly don't understand what I was saying, and I grow tired of spelling it out for you. It's clear you haven't bothered to actually investigate what gear is available, nor experienced the low level PvP sufficently or you'd realize how rediculous you sound right now.

As for favor saving ... that's actually what MANY 49 twinks are doing. They are buying lvl 50 gear so when they ding 50, they'll have max level PvP gear, then it's just a matter of grinding ranks for weapons, and rep for the rest of the goodies.

Your ignorance towards twinks and twinking in general is displayed with greater clarity with each post you make. Thank you for stengthening my position with every word you type.

Voodoo****

I actually expected better contributions to a discussion from someone who'd garnered such esteem on the Warrior forums. Regardless of how your guild name is spelled, your contributions here have been decidedly sub-par.

[TheBidnis]

too bad that's not the point you've been making. If this is, you've yet to prove that twinking adversely affects one's ability to learn. I'd suggest that the presence of those with better gear / more skill / more knowledge HELP one learn, if only that person takes the time to inspect their gear, and ask questions. (which given the merc system is more possible now than ever)



Technically, twinks have always existed. They simply leveled out of brackets eventually. I've been twinking since 1.0.

I don't remember ever personally coercing Trion or even petitioning them to introduce an XP lock. I was surprised to see them introduce it, but was happy to have it. Perhaps you can direct me to the threads where this did take place, because I've never seen them.

Twinking IS an enjoyable part of the game. (for some) That IS a fact ... it's a fact because it IS my opinion, and the opinon of manyothers. The problem is you make statements like "twinking is killing the game" which is not a fact. Certainly not supported by any evidence. If however, you said "I don't like twinking, and for me, it's ruining the game." then that would be a statement of fact.

If you cannot tell the difference therin, twinks are the least of your problems.



I'm willing to listen when the other side actually presents an argument and stops making false statements of fact. In fact, I do see the other side of the argument, which is "some people don't like twinks." That's a valid point of view. However, this point of view has rarely been supported with evidence as to why Trion should change the status quo. Instead the arguments regularly devolve into twink bashing, and the afore mentioned false statement of facts ... which are actually assumptions and opinions.



/golf clap --- also don't be so quick to call the kettle black Mr Pot.

1. I never said Twinking was ruining the game!! I stated that it is making it harder for new players who havent played the game again.

2. I havent tried to make Trion take it away I was simply stating that It isn't fun for new players again.

3.Trion already changed the status quo by making Twinks when they werent available before so pls support your own arguments with facts.

[nemecis]

Twinking has always been possible, the only thing that changed, was it became more advantageous to do so, because you won't out-level your gear until you want to.

[nemecis]

edit timer*

1. I never said Twinking was ruining the game!! I stated that it is making it harder for new players who havent played the game again.

2. I havent tried to make Trion take it away I was simply stating that It isn't fun for new players again.

3.Trion already changed the status quo by making Twinks when they werent available before so pls support your own arguments with facts.

Twinking has always been possible, the only thing that changed, was it became more advantageous to do so, because you won't out-level your gear until you want to.

Pressing me to provide facts for my opinions won't get you anywhere.

I however will continue to ask for proof when you make claims such as:

My point being is that if you put a hurt on the new players at lower level PvP they will never make it to 50 and give up the game all together which means less competition all around not just at 19 but at 50 as well.

If this quote does not suggest you believe twinks are ruining the game, what does it suggest esactly?

Personally, I think you give new players far less credit then they are due. You presume they'll quit rather than adapt and learn. I guess if that's the type of player people wish to play with that's their perogative, personally, I'd rather have a player base that gets rolled, and decides to better themselves, learn, adapt, and come back next time better prrepared. It's much nicer to play a game with those types of players than ones that demand the devs make everything easy so they won't have to put effort into it.

If you are not (which apparently is the case given point #2) trying to convince Trion to take away the XP lock, or Twinking in general, what is your motivation to post? Simply here to QQ - one would have thought you'd have accomplished that with a single post, follow ups need not be necessary. Perhaps you're here just to argue for argument's sake (which appears to be the case in light of #2). I'm at a loss for why you're involved in this conversation if we are to assume you did not lie with regards to your second point.

[labotimy]

I'd rather have a player base that gets rolled, and decides to better themselves, learn, adapt, and come back next time better prrepared. It's much nicer to play a game with those types of players than ones that demand the devs make everything easy so they won't have to put effort into it.

so less of this and more of this

[TheBidnis]

edit timer*







Twinking has always been possible, the only thing that changed, was it became more advantageous to do so, because you won't out-level your gear until you want to.

Pressing me to provide facts for my opinions won't get you anywhere.

I however will continue to ask for proof when you make claims such as:


If this quote does not suggest you believe twinks are ruining the game, what does it suggest esactly?

Personally, I think you give new players far less credit then they are due. You presume they'll quit rather than adapt and learn. I guess if that's the type of player people wish to play with that's their perogative, personally, I'd rather have a player base that gets rolled, and decides to better themselves, learn, adapt, and come back next time better prrepared. It's much nicer to play a game with those types of players than ones that demand the devs make everything easy so they won't have to put effort into it.

If you are not (which apparently is the case given point #2) trying to convince Trion to take away the XP lock, or Twinking in general, what is your motivation to post? Simply here to QQ - one would have thought you'd have accomplished that with a single post, follow ups need not be necessary. Perhaps you're here just to argue for argument's sake (which appears to be the case in light of #2). I'm at a loss for why you're involved in this conversation if we are to assume you did not lie with regards to your second point.

As you posted to me once Pot calling the Kettle black huh.

[TheBidnis]

edit timer*







Twinking has always been possible, the only thing that changed, was it became more advantageous to do so, because you won't out-level your gear until you want to.

Pressing me to provide facts for my opinions won't get you anywhere.

I however will continue to ask for proof when you make claims such as:

my proof is a dying game as seen by the mass exodus of players who enjoy PvP onto Swtor which is a horrible PvP game.

If this quote does not suggest you believe twinks are ruining the game, what does it suggest esactly?

It suggests that if you don't grow your player base than whats the point of the game. A casual picks up the game sees your twink geared out at 19 plays 3 WF's and quits because whats the point. People make PvP all you want is a ROFLSTOMPROLLERCOASTER.

Personally, I think you give new players far less credit then they are due. You presume they'll quit rather than adapt and learn. I guess if that's the type of player people wish to play with that's their perogative, personally, I'd rather have a player base that gets rolled, and decides to better themselves, learn, adapt, and come back next time better prrepared. It's much nicer to play a game with those types of players than ones that demand the devs make everything easy so they won't have to put effort into it.

No I give them the credit that is real. people like to play and win some lose some not lose all the time because twinks are all you face in the WF's

If you are not (which apparently is the case given point #2) trying to convince Trion to take away the XP lock, or Twinking in general, what is your motivation to post? Simply here to QQ - one would have thought you'd have accomplished that with a single post, follow ups need not be necessary. Perhaps you're here just to argue for argument's sake (which appears to be the case in light of #2). I'm at a loss for why you're involved in this conversation if we are to assume you did not lie with regards to your second point.

As I said pot calling the kettle black if my posts aren't up to your par stop responding to them.