To all those who complains about Twinks

[labotimy]

Carebears???? you don't want competition that's why you sit with the little brothers and beat up on what can be compared to kindergartners. If only we could lock xp in RL.

bro 90% of the time im on my main, grinding to p40. i play around with my alts that are rocking rare cache gear(no i didnt spend the time crafting flawless crap) just for the hell of it. mostly tho im queing for PS's on my main. i think its funny tho that you resort again to the typical response "you cant cut it at 50", and dont even consider that i may just enjoy playing alts.

[ShalarLight]

The vast majority of the anti-twink croud are nothing more than biggots. They have no legitimate argument to be made outside of "I don't like it". Rarely can the articulate a valid reason for their animosity.

Contrary to the common retort that "twinks are 50's that can't hack it @ 50", I suggest the majority of anti-twinks are in fact those 50's that can't hack it @50, and instead look to pre 50 for some reprieve. Now that some measure of security has been lifted on these sanctuaries, they're lashing out.

Whether you're lvl 50 or not, if you can't be bothered to invest the time/energy/plat to be competative, that's your problem, not anyone else's. It's your choice to be inferior, live with it. (or perhaps regardless of level / gear / plat --- you're just bad?)

Meh.

Look, if you really want to get 2-3x as much life and 3-5x as much damage potential as the people you are "fighting" and want to call it "pvp", whatever, you need compensation for something, what that something is driving you, i dont know and honestly dont care.

I find closely matched pvp way more fun, but in rift apparently i am in the minority. Just dont come in here with your rediculous advantages and start telling people to L2P, as it just comes off as hilarious that you would actually consider yourself good with those types of advantages. All the while screaming about how your characters with actual competition are so terrible and need redicu-buffs.

[TheBidnis]

bro 90% of the time im on my main, grinding to p40. i play around with my alts that are rocking rare cache gear(no i didnt spend the time crafting flawless crap) just for the hell of it. mostly tho im queing for PS's on my main. i think its funny tho that you resort again to the typical response "you cant cut it at 50", and dont even consider that i may just enjoy playing alts.

Well good for you. My point being is that if you put a hurt on the new players at lower level PvP they will never make it to 50 and give up the game all together which means less competition all around not just at 19 but at 50 as well.

[labotimy]

Just dont come in here with your rediculous advantages and start telling people to L2P, as it just comes off as hilarious that you would actually consider yourself good with those types of advantages

since the said advantages are to a certain degree available to everyone, in an MMO sense where gear progression is the IT, wouldnt you be bad by default for not taking the time to gear up? i mean people running pub raids ask to link your unlock page. why is it that in pve there is such a thing as player accountability when it comes to his gear, but in pvp this all gets thrown out the window? IMO if you que at lvl X0-X7 with crap gear you should get rolled in a similar manner to a fresh 50 rocking all quest greens getting thrown into an unranked WF.

If you take the 2 hours at level 18 to run IT a few times, get a drop or two and the quest items, buy a few 18 enchants from the auction house, your competitive. the same can be done at level 2X, 3X, and even 4X by rifting for your planar gear. not doing this is your own fault and not mine, or my alts.

[Gordonfreman]

since the said advantages are to a certain degree available to everyone, in an MMO sense where gear progression is the IT, wouldnt you be bad by default for not taking the time to gear up? i mean people running pub raids ask to link your unlock page. why is it that in pve there is such a thing as player accountability when it comes to his gear, but in pvp this all gets thrown out the window? IMO if you que at lvl X0-X7 with crap gear you should get rolled in a similar manner to a fresh 50 rocking all quest greens getting thrown into an unranked WF.

If you take the 2 hours at level 18 to run IT a few times, get a drop or two and the quest items, buy a few 18 enchants from the auction house, your competitive. the same can be done at level 2X, 3X, and even 4X by rifting for your planar gear. not doing this is your own fault and not mine, or my alts.

If you are experienced locked it is no problem to gear out your character.
If you are not experienced locked your gear will always lag behind your warfront tier.

[labotimy]

Well good for you. My point being is that if you put a hurt on the new players at lower level PvP they will never make it to 50 and give up the game all together which means less competition all around not just at 19 but at 50 as well.

if you read my post history you will notice that i have been posting daily about how to balance the twinking issue, make it so anyone can be competitive by simply investing a small amount of time in their characters progression.

yes level 11, 21, 31, 41 chars should get rocked in WF's to the point where they should not que, L2PVP, if you que at the low end of the bracket EXPECT TO PERFORM LIKE YOUR IN THE LOW END OF THE BRACKET.

ive said this prolly 100 times, remove 300 augs from low level crafting, make sigils have a level req, make WF ques strip high level buffs, put level req's on rep enchantments. problem solved, now all anyone has to do is take the time to run the X9 dungeon, lock xp, and drop 2 plat on enchants and consumables from the auction house. being bad or good will be completely up to you and your characters progression the way it should be in an MMO.

[TheBidnis]

since the said advantages are to a certain degree available to everyone, in an MMO sense where gear progression is the IT, wouldnt you be bad by default for not taking the time to gear up? i mean people running pub raids ask to link your unlock page. why is it that in pve there is such a thing as player accountability when it comes to his gear, but in pvp this all gets thrown out the window? IMO if you que at lvl X0-X7 with crap gear you should get rolled in a similar manner to a fresh 50 rocking all quest greens getting thrown into an unranked WF.

If you take the 2 hours at level 18 to run IT a few times, get a drop or two and the quest items, buy a few 18 enchants from the auction house, your competitive. the same can be done at level 2X, 3X, and even 4X by rifting for your planar gear. not doing this is your own fault and not mine, or my alts.

And in those 2 hours you could of been lvl 20 even 21 maybe even higher. But a lot of people have problems with Twinking because it discourages new players to participate in PvP at lower levels where your learning curve starts for PvP. Just like in PvE you start out with easy instances and work your way up as you gain levels to harder fights so you are then Raid ready and know mechanics. Similarly low level PvP helps you determine what skills you should be using and when in a PvP scenario. For the growth of the game and its player base Twinking is a bad idea. It doesnt promote anything but getting frustrated and quitting. I myself would like to see more players at 50 and new ones coming in all the time so that the player base grows not contracts.

[Meina]

And in those 2 hours you could of been lvl 20 even 21 maybe even higher. But a lot of people have problems with Twinking because it discourages new players to participate in PvP at lower levels where your learning curve starts for PvP. Just like in PvE you start out with easy instances and work your way up as you gain levels to harder fights so you are then Raid ready and know mechanics. Similarly low level PvP helps you determine what skills you should be using and when in a PvP scenario. For the growth of the game and its player base Twinking is a bad idea. It doesnt promote anything but getting frustrated and quitting. I myself would like to see more players at 50 and new ones coming in all the time so that the player base grows not contracts.

I think Trion's focus right now is more on player retention, not new players. Twinking is one way to keep bored people playing the game, thus player retention goes up.

Sure, new players are a good thing too, but the way this game is bleeding subs, keeping the people that are already playing the game is just as important, if not more important than luring new players into the game. Sometimes it's better to cater to the people that have shown that they can commit to a game, instead of trying to cater to a bunch of unknowns.

That being said, I agree with most of what Labotimy has said (although I don't always agree with his tone). Trion needs to tweak some of the items and augments to bring twinks' power levels down a bit. Some of the stuff being used is obviously should not be used.

I also agree that people should not go into a WF half naked or at the low end of the level scale and expect to compete like the big dawgs. This is true regardless of twinking.

I am also all for limiting XP lock to level 20+. This should give the true newbies a chance to experience PvP "safely", before they're slapped in the face with the cold hard realities of PvP'ing in a gear based MMO.

[nemecis]

But a lot of people have problems with Twinking because it discourages new players to participate in PvP at lower levels where your learning curve starts for PvP.

Proof? or can we all just make things up?

Just like in PvE you start out with easy instances and work your way up as you gain levels to harder fights so you are then Raid ready and know mechanics. Similarly low level PvP helps you determine what skills you should be using and when in a PvP scenario.

Yet PvP is NOT like PvE. PvP is more dynamic, you cannot simply learn an encounter and repeat the next time you face it. Nor can you expect a similar opponent each time. Some will be more or less skilled than others, some will be more or less geared than others (regardless of twinks existing or not).

It's convenient for the sake of your argument to make this comparison. But PvE and PvP do not work the same way, thusly, your comparison does not fit within this context.

For the growth of the game and its player base Twinking is a bad idea. It doesnt promote anything but getting frustrated and quitting.

I'm sure you simply forgot to insert "IMHO" in there somewhere, because without it, this statement comes off as narrow-minded and overtly bias.

I myself would like to see more players at 50 and new ones coming in all the time so that the player base grows not contracts.

I think we all would. You haven't proved that twinking adversely affects this growth/contraction ratio. So this statement is akin to me buttoning my pro-twinking statements with:

"I myself would like to see more players spending plat on gear, and helping the economy in these uncertain times. God bless America, our troops and our Twinks!"

Needless to say, this is pandering, and doesn't actually bolster my argument.

[TheBidnis]

Proof? or can we all just make things up?



Yet PvP is NOT like PvE. PvP is more dynamic, you cannot simply learn an encounter and repeat the next time you face it. Nor can you expect a similar opponent each time. Some will be more or less skilled than others, some will be more or less geared than others (regardless of twinks existing or not).

It's convenient for the sake of your argument to make this comparison. But PvE and PvP do not work the same way, thusly, your comparison does not fit within this context.



I'm sure you simply forgot to insert "IMHO" in there somewhere, because without it, this statement comes off as narrow-minded and overtly bias.



I think we all would. You haven't proved that twinking adversely affects this growth/contraction ratio. So this statement is akin to me buttoning my pro-twinking statements with:

"I myself would like to see more players spending plat on gear, and helping the economy in these uncertain times. God bless America, our troops and our Twinks!"

Needless to say, this is pandering, and doesn't actually bolster my argument.

And on the contrary you have not provided any valid points other than it's what you like to do so pls when you make a statement could you also include IMHO somewhere so we know the difference like you are requesting of me.

[nemecis]

I'm not the one basing my entire argument on uproven / false assumptions.

My position stems from the current state of the game. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the accused.

My argument IS that I enjoy it, and others do as well. This IS a fact.
Your argument is that you DO NOT enjoy it, and others don't either. But instead of stating this, you try to coerce Trion (or perhaps the undecided / unconcerned majority) by framing your argument in unverifiable "facts" like 'Twinking hurts the game'.

When you have a real and/or honest argument to make, please let us know.

[Mogh]

Simple solution, Trion should make a good chunk of gear available in every bracket level covering more then just 2 slots specifically for PvP, should also include some weapons. They have the current vendors who only sell a couple of pieces every 5-10 levels. It would be simple and could be something like this:

Lvl 10 or 11 player can buy his first bracket of gear for a small amount of gold/silver or maybe its can be quested. He uses that gear until 20. At 20/21 player can now purchase the next set of PvP gear for Favor gained from previous bracket. Gear would be priced reasonably so that a player could purchase all the gear with the Favor he earned in the lower bracket. Continue this on up until 50.

Doing this would level out the gear gap between a twink and someone just leveling up to 50. The only real difference at that point between a twink and leveling player would be Rune enchantments.

I know from my experience if you just want to do a lot of PvP, its hard to keep up on the gear because your not questing as much and even with questing your getting some greens. All of which are quickly out dated.

I can cope with that because I have a 50 who can fund the purchase of some gear off the AH, but a new player would have a harder time with that.

[Rizaz]

And this does not take place @ 50? Do you refuse to fight those less geared than yourself? Full HK relics, full P40 ... not to mention having HK relics long before the majority of not just players, but players who are now 11/11 HK?

You think twinks should be ridiculed? Super, yet another biggoted opinion. A rather hypocritical opinion at that.

Oh I see, it's only honorable for twinks to fight other twinks ... then I guess you only fight players in WFs that are of equal gear level than yourself? Opting out of matches where P0 players can be found, and waiting instead for a real challenge?

There is no skill involved playing a p40 Hk relic'd out 50 (unless you're fighting other p40, HK relic'd players).

Uhhh.

Level 50 warfronts are separated by gear level (1-25, 25 - 40, etc). So yeah. I am playing against similarly geared people.

[nemecis]

Uhhh.

Level 50 warfronts are separated by gear level (1-25, 25 - 40, etc). So yeah. I am playing against similarly geared people.

Not 100% of the time.

Also not every P40 is equal, not each player has access to HK gear (Champ 4 piece for instance). Not to mention the difference between P35 and P36+ is rather large.

Furthermore, not every WF match is ranked. Many a time my P40 finds itself matched againts P0-40, just as my P6 finds itself in those matches.

Does 50 PvP offer some semblance of balance? While most posts on PvP and class forums would suggest not, they are certainly better balanced than 10-49. But that balance only extends to Trion attempting to segregate. Gear differentials are much easier to over-come in pre 50 PvP, where everyone has access to the gear (especially true at present with old world event items being readily available).

Don't kid yourself, when you're topping charts in WFs you're no different than these twinks you attempt to villify. The difference is, you took longer to get there. So perhaps the case isn't that you're against twinking, you're just against others being #1 when their guild tag doesn't read Vodoo, or their level read 50.

[TheBidnis]

I'm not the one basing my entire argument on uproven / false assumptions.

My position stems from the current state of the game. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the accused.

My argument IS that I enjoy it, and others do as well. This IS a fact.
Your argument is that you DO NOT enjoy it, and others don't either. But instead of stating this, you try to coerce Trion (or perhaps the undecided / unconcerned majority) by framing your argument in unverifiable "facts" like 'Twinking hurts the game'.

When you have a real and/or honest argument to make, please let us know.

1. I am not basing any arguement on unproven/false assumptions you can't just jump into a WF and know what to do from the 1st try you go in and have a learning curve of the things you are good at and not good at in each WF scenario.

2. My argument is that I and others enjoyed it before the Twinks This IS a fact. You and people already coerced Trion to put these Twinks in by framing YOUR argument with unverifiable "facts" like "Twinking is an enjoyable part of the game" BOTH OPINIONS JUST LIKE MINE.

3. When you can see both sides of an argument let me know. You are closed minded to what you want and unwilling to listen to the other side.

I think you fall under the personality of my first sig.