How much effectiveness do you lose by clicking?

[Wintervoid]

I admit I am a clicker. As a Dom/Chloro/Pyro I use 28 abilities regularly and another 8 rarely, not including 4 one hour long buffs.

I tried setting macro's to reduce the number of choices, but in almost all cases, each skill used is situational and I want to use on it's own. I tried keymapping my top dozen or so skills, but switching between keymapping and the other dozen or so buttons was just not working very well for me. I am resigned to be a button pusher on my Mage as well as a an occasional keyboard turner instead of mouse look (My default is mouse look....except when I need to click a button...)

So...how skilled of a Mage can one become while still clicking? Average? Good? Great but not exceptional?

Also, along the same lines, I have tried getting rid of the back button and always going forward w/ mouselook...and I just can not seem to master it. Is this also an essential skill for top level play?

[Xvvt]

It isn't a question of what you can achieve by clicking, it is that you are limiting your potential by clicking.

[AngelOfTheGuardians]

I guess you could do ok while clicking, but it's really much more efficient to use keybinds. The only things I click are mounts, consumables, and abilities I rarely use (like buffs, no real need to keybind them because you only put them on once per life).

[VirusDancer]

It depends on the person. To be frank, it is not a simple divide between those that KBT/C and those that MT/B.

For a person with no handicaps, if they spent ten years as KBT/C or MT/B - they would likely do better with MT/B. I remember 13 years or so back trying to train some Lotus 1-2-3 folks in using Excel. With their macros/keystrokes, they could work a Hell of a lot faster than the average clicker (luckily at the time, Excel included the option for them to use most of their 1-2-3 knowledge). When they had to move over to things that required they click, they did worse.

For somebody making the change from one to the other, there is likely a period of time where they will simply do better with the old way - they are just not as proficient in the new way. If they stick with it, possibly do a hybrid system in the interim as they progress - they'll likely find they do better than they did before...eventually.

In the end though, it comes down to what works best for you - are you better with one than the other? How much effectiveness would you then lose by using the method that is...less effective...?

[Pesmergia]

Your potential is severely limited by clicking.

I asked the same question about a year ago, then I decided to suck it up and get a gaming keyboard, and learn to keybind with 30+ keybinds, and mouse turn and move.

It was a rough 2 weeks of learning, I died to mobs that I could easily click solo, more or less training my fingers to go where the keybinds were, without looking down.

Now the results after I mastered it?

Phenominal. I am probably about 300% better of a player. I am twice as fast, I can move while hitting keybinds without looking down, I have no delay in oh crap moments, I no longer accidently click the wrong one, I always 100% efficiently hit the correct keybind because I am so used to them now.

You are REALLY limiting yourself clicking, and could be at least 200% better of a player if you learned to efficiently keybind.

[Dashel]

"How good a driver can I be if I steer with one elbow?"

I'm sure you can get decent at it if you practice enough but you're better served by using both hands.

[BusyHandz]

I tried having hotkeys but as a cleric I play all 5 roles all the time and found I can not physically remember all the hotkeys for each ability in each role. I only have a few workable macros and I do use a couple of hotkeys, but for me personally, I really found I had to be a clicker if I wanted to do anything productive. There are times where this hinders me sure (rogues circling me like gogo dancers), but overall I've found being a clicker far more comfortable and fun for my playstyle. (for the record I do well in pvp and pve, so it has never noticeably held me back in any way)

I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as saying if you are a clicker you are limiting yourself, as everyone is different and some classes require way more hotkeys than others. Try both, figure out which one is more comfortable and efficient and stick with that.

You can be a good player either way.

[AngelOfTheGuardians]

Just for reference, I used to click (when I was still new basically) on my twink hunter. Pretty much the only thing keeping me alive was my huge gear advantage, and when someone was equally twinked or better (assuming melee class), I got owned. Then I learned to kite and use keybinds, and from then on I loled at most twink rogues and warriors trying to kill me.

[Wintervoid]

Thanks for the input. I actually have not always been a clicker.

For any that played EQ, I played a very good Bard that I controlled all through the keyboard. I could not have done the things I did by using the mouse. I didn't raid, but was able to lead some dungeon groups without a cleric because I had the reactions for instant CC, or whatever Bard tool was needed at that second. Of course, there were only about a dozen or so keys I needed to bind. In other games...it has been a mix depending on how the game was set up, but mostly I have regressed to clicking since most games are very easy and I have never been much of a PVPer before.

Now, I know that I need to switch to keybinding to go to the next level, but it is just daunting. Basically I would want to keybind almost 40 keys (I forgot trinkets and consumables in my initial count). I have done alot of pondering, and I think I can get it down to 10 keys each on Shift/Ctrl/Alt using some macros on Damage spells, and maybe even Burning Shield/Bloom/Fourish, but most the CC spells really are situation dependant. I know others must do it, but it is a bit daunting.

Any advice? How many keybinds do most people play with?

[Dashel]

Start with a few and work your way up.

WASD is movement for me

Most used are Q E R 1 2 3 4 C V F G Mouse 1 Mouse 2 Mouse 3 and Mouse 4
also have alt 1 - alt 4 and alt Q alt E alt R alt C as lesser used but still use them often
For me that's enough. I click buffs

Start with Q E R 1 2 3 and go from there maybe.

[Seether]

You can be a good player either way.

This is just your opinion. While a clicker can perform well there is still a sizable difference in their performance potential and that of someone who is mouse looking and using keybinds.
Clicking is not a big deal for certain classes that do not have to worry about facing targets (healers) but you are going to be losing lots of potential dps as a clicker against opponents who are moving frequently. This game became a lot more clicker friendly after 1.1 made spells only require 1 LoS check.

[fearstalker]

The difference from a clicker and key-binder for most classes and callings (in this game and others) isn't huge but its there. i would recommend to just bite the bullet and start key binding, i started out like Pesmergia as a clicker and moved to key-bindings. now there is going to be some adjustment time, took me about 1-2 weeks to get used to everything. let me tell you your going to die A LOT in those couple of weeks to stupid stuff, but don't worry it happens to every one.

but let me tell you after i got used to it my combat effectiveness (especially in pvp) at least doubled. it also let me feel that i have much more control over my character, in that most stuff became simple muscle memory responses.

when i was learning to key bind a friend once said, "in pvp if you have to think about it, its already to late"

[Acererak]

I admit I am a clicker. As a Dom/Chloro/Pyro I use 28 abilities regularly and another 8 rarely, not including 4 one hour long buffs.

I tried setting macro's to reduce the number of choices, but in almost all cases, each skill used is situational and I want to use on it's own. I tried keymapping my top dozen or so skills, but switching between keymapping and the other dozen or so buttons was just not working very well for me. I am resigned to be a button pusher on my Mage as well as a an occasional keyboard turner instead of mouse look (My default is mouse look....except when I need to click a button...)

So...how skilled of a Mage can one become while still clicking? Average? Good? Great but not exceptional?

Also, along the same lines, I have tried getting rid of the back button and always going forward w/ mouselook...and I just can not seem to master it. Is this also an essential skill for top level play?

1) It depends on how fast you click. I have seen people click with great accuracy and skill 4-5 times per second. (Asian Guy. Absolute amazing. A world Class StarCraft Player).

2) A Combination of key and mouse is properly the best solution for must people. (The ability to cope with stress and making good decisions, with great accuracy, is a hard wired part of you Brain. Practice can improve it, but less than most people believe).

The most important thing is to learn to click/Stroke the key at at the right moment. To coordinate you abilities correctly. Learn to use macros. Every ability should be at you disposal and the fraction of a second. It should be second nature.

But being good in PvP is a complex matter. And it can not be learned in one single day.


Regards

Acererak

[Zaelion]

response time. thats what you are missing by clicking.

check out razors mmo mouse that they sell. It has 17 buttons on it that you can bind, awesome device imo.

[Grishnakk]

Clicks per second aside - what are you looking at when you click? Your skill bar of course. This means your missing an opportunity to LOS, Heal, Silence, interupt etc.

Binding is not only faster than clicking (even with a fast clicks/sec) but also far more beneficial as it provides you with situational awareness as your only looking at the battlefield and potentially your buffs/debuffs/procs.

I used to click when I played WoW (made Gladiator, lol) - forced myself to learn key binds once I started playing Melee in Aion and have never looked back. Binds honestly make you play 2-3 times better than the potential a clicker could reach IMO. There is good clicker players but a binder of the same skill level will always outplay the clicker.

28 keys may seem like a lot but you need to learn to use modifiers also, gaming mouse helps too of course.

I personally use Q, E, R, T, G, H, C, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - 12 base keys.

Add in Shift as a modifier too all of those, and control you effectively have 36 key binds - more than enough for your skills. I find grouping similar skills to be most effective for me personally (Shift C defensive CD1, Ctrl defensive CD2, C defensive CD 3 etc).

You just need to force yourself to learn them, play is **** for the first few days but once you get the hang of your binds you will find play much better.