Arenas, why it's good and dispelling myths.

[Celicos]

I support competitive systems. Versatility is never a bad thing and and a mixture of pvp and over would only promote the health of the game.

[Armyantsrule]

Chances are, Trion WON'T read the post. Or they will and they'll just brush it off. Forums are just ways for us to vent our frustrations with the game, not ways for us to get what we want in games. We can say we want this and that but in the end it's only going to be implemented if they can do it without destroying their eventual goals for their game. All I know is that if Trion doesn't implement some sort of PvP goal for the PvP community, they won't lose all of their subs, but they'll lose a pretty hefty amount.

It's hard to say that the forums aren't looked at. I remember a few months ago, when Blizzard almost made the mistake of applying the realID system to the forums, the entire forum community lashed out in anger, and Blizzard listened. It took them longer than it probably should have, as some people felt they weren't listened to and decided to leave before Blizzard finally acted. But Blizzard did eventually listen to them.

[Armyantsrule]

Typically at higher ratings, at least from my experiences, we'd be fighting the same 15-20 teams the majority of the time. Everyone was courteous for the most part and the only feuds that began were fun and friendly.

Eventually that's what it boils down to. But before you get to those last 20 teams, you have to deal with everyone else who is trying to GET there, and those are generally where the elitist attitudes come from.

Elitist attitudes will never go away. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to give those people ratings with which they feel they can justify their attitudes. "I have 2300+ so I am better than you."

Not interested.

[banaklol]

Eventually that's what it boils down to. But before you get to those last 20 teams, you have to deal with everyone else who is trying to GET there, and those are generally where the elitist attitudes come from

thats the easy part :P

[Armyantsrule]

thats the easy part :P

Either way, that's where you find the majority of the pricks. If I didn't participate in PvP and only cared about PvE, I wouldn't even be posting here. But I like participating in both. But I don't see any need for rankings.

I play in PvP so I can kill other people. What more could one want? Satisfaction of killing another player or being the one to make that final flag cap isn't enough, for some, I suppose.

[Mantastic]

Your next-gen games are all wrong.

Tera & RIFT are not next-gen (No matter how they call themselves that, they are not next gen. Today's Next-gen MMORPG requires havoc modelling, proper hit and character detections, stunning graphics that are cost efficient to your computer, support for massive combat etc). GW2, Blizzard's Project Titan and Archeage are examples of next-gen.

Also, no, arena's are not a proper PvP concept, and never will be. MMORPG's are about "massive" restricting the fights into designated groups of less than 10 people isn't what MMORPG's are about, for such games, you should play a game that is online RPG (Such as Nox's concept was).

Also Arena's often remove all the real components of Pvp, such as consumables and long cool down skills.

Also any rated system can be exploited in MMORPG's.

OP is obviously what we call "Today's MMORPG monkey" who has only played MMORPG's of the new EQ model (which's flagship namely is World of Warcraft). And has not touched MMORPG's of real massive warfare, player controlled world where players actions truly matter with FREEDOM OF CHOICE and CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS (I.e. Ultima Online, Shadowbane). Those are MMORPG's, restricting stuff into instances only means a. Bad MMORPG engine. b. Bad MMORPG design that caters to today's monkeys.

To op, I don't mean to bash you, but I'd say upcoming Diablo III will be more of a game for your liking. Same I state to everyone who loves arena. Those who actually like MMORPG's with real PvP, I suggest checking out Archeage, where PvP will be about random PK'ing, sieges, naval warfare and real conquest with real consequences of doing stuff. Player controlled freedom & world is what MMORPG's should be about. And after Archeage comes out, its our turn again. Play to CRUSH! Those who like simulated instanced "PvP" can stay here.

In addition, having "Arena ratings" will make people assume that Arena is the true calculator of players skills. The concept in MMORPG's used to be word-to-mouth. If you truly where the biggest most badass barbarian, people would fear your name. It had never anything to do with a ****ing simulated rating which is always time based. Nowadays, it is.

Shadowbane, mmmmm the first city siege i did was about 500 total people involved and about 140 gaurds, i came..... twice

To bad it peaked then died out from lack of dev support, Honestly my best gameing memories came from shadowbane after level 20 there was no npc town only player built cities there was no quest you found a camp and grinded that **** out mmmm the good old days.

[Opcodevoid]

Says Pardo:

We didn't engineer the game and classes and balance around it, we just added it on, so it continues to be very difficult to balance. Is WoW a PvE cooperative game, or a competitive PvP game? There's constant pressure on the class balance team, there's pressure on the game itself, and a lot of times players who don't PvP don't understand why their classes are changing. I don't think we ever foresaw how much tuning and tweaking we'd have to do to balance it in that direction.

A pretty candid statement about a pretty controversial topic. It's good to see that Blizzard understands that the implementation of Arenas was a mistake for a game like WoW. Of course, Pardo also says that they can't just axe Arenas completely, at least not yet, so we may be stuck with them for a while. Sorry about your PvE burst damage, guys.

Sounds like a mistake, to me...

I prefer not to have them, but if they must come. ..I don't want the game balanced around them and no special/better gear (if anything that should come form open world PvP). Problem lies in the QQing would be none stop (worse than it is now), if Trion didn't balance around it. Not only does balancing around arena screw up PvE, but other aspects of PvP balance is screwed up, as well.

My question is , if WoW is so awesome with Arenas...why are people crying for Arenas in this game?? Probably has something to do with homogenization and screwing up people's class every other patch. Those of us who didn't like that came, here to get away from it. Those who want it..WoW has it and is that way----->
Play both games, enjoy WoW (if you can) for it tries to do with Arenas (affecting every other aspect of the game) and enjoy Rift for what it does.


I hope Trion does not open that Pandora's Box....

Arenas have nothing to do with WoW, and class homogenization only applied to healers being able to defensively dispel and dps being able to heal themselves. All classes are very unique and terms of execution , build and priority.

Arena's weren't a mistake for wow, in fact it help it grow into a esport and kept a lot of people playing for so long.

[Armyantsrule]

Arenas have nothing to do with WoW, and class homogenization only applied to healers being able to defensively dispel and dps being able to heal themselves. All classes are very unique and terms of execution , build and priority.

Arena's weren't a mistake for wow, in fact it help it grow into a esport and kept a lot of people playing for so long.

The developers seem to disagree on that point.

[Opcodevoid]

The developers seem to disagree on that point.

I would love to see that quote, please post a link

[Armyantsrule]

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/bl...ere-a-mistake/

Thats the game developer himself describing how much arenas ruined wow.

I can't believe I have to quote something from the first page to get people to listen. Did you guys skip all of the last twelve pages?

[Armyantsrule]

basicly adding arena made more problems that profits, as because of such small feature they had to revamp most of classes abitilies to make it playable leading to huge whine, qqing ect, but over time its goog going investition

its pretty cool that you can read article title, but going deeper and actually reading whole article would make you a little bit more informed what I am talking about.

Namecalling is a great way to make yourself look sophisticated. Whatever. All I said was that the developers didn't think their addition of arenas was a good implementation, which was a direct counter to what was stated by the other person just above.

I never once said anything in regards to the things you are posting about. I never needed to. You're only stating what's in the article, which is what I said. Arenas were a BAD IMPLEMENTATION. At least, they were from the standpoint of a developer. I didn't have to clarify as to why that was, it's there in the article. You can read it for yourself.

[Delphya]

I support competitive systems. Versatility is never a bad thing and and a mixture of pvp and over would only promote the health of the game.

Competitive systems and alternate PVP is not bad as long as they are equal to other forms of PVP, what is bad is when they make those alternate PVP forms have better rewards or more prestige.

If winning a Arena was like winning a Black Garden WF, then it would not be a problem. The only reward is Favor and maybe prestige.

There would be no negative connotations against people who choose not to engage in the alternate PVP form and maybe people at the top 2% would get a title they can apply and cosmetic weapon or armor they can wear.

This is the only way that Trion should even consider Arenas, as an alternate form of PVP.

Oh and since it is PVP, the people must be on opposing factions and I would also state that the accounts cannot be owned by the same person.

[Moker]

Howcome:


Arena destroys / transforms the community in a-social leet kiddies?


Has not been added in the original post?
I personally would like to keep that community in WoW.

[ZXT]

Howcome:


Arena destroys / transforms the community in a-social leet kiddies?


Has not been added in the original post?
I personally would like to keep that community in WoW.

Most of the people who think they are leet kill npcs.

Most of the people who are bad call the good pvpers leetists with no evidence of such.

[Armyantsrule]

Most of the people who think they are leet kill npcs.

Most of the people who are bad call the good pvpers leetists with no evidence of such.

You speaking of something completely unrelated to what you quoted.