Hmm. SWTOR now has less US servers than Rift does

[Snichy]

I remember them releasing with LOADS of servers so it was inevitable that there would be some closures, whihc is a good thing as high population worlds really make a game enjoyable.

I really don't know why games don't release with lots of servers and announce that certain servers will close after 6 months so players and guilds can plan around it as the only reason to releases with lots of servers is to ensure a smooth experience and quest items aren't too difficult to obtain. If people knew that servers would close they can plan accordingly.

Alternatively, just release one server at a time for new players and once it reaches capacity release another server, then another and so on - at least that way a server will always be full. As players leave the game, simply merge a server behind the scenes (keeping the players form each server together). For example:

• Server A at release, becomes full

• Server B is opened, then becomes full

• Server C is opened, becomes full

• Server D is opened, becomes medium population

• Server A, B & C become low/medium population after 6 months,

• Server A & B merge together to become new Server A high population

• Server C & D merge together to become new Server B high population

..so you have 2 high population servers as opposed to 4 low/medium population servers, which have been merged automatically behind the scenes without the bad press that goes with optional transfers. I know some people (including me) want to stay on a single server for immersion purposes but I care less about staying loyal to one particular named server but care more about having a vibrant highly populated server (as long as guilds & friends are kept together, obviously). Surely the technology is there.

[Salamol]

I remember them releasing with LOADS of servers so it was inevitable that there would be some closures, whihc is a good thing as high population worlds really make a game enjoyable.

I really don't know why games don't release with lots of servers and announce that certain servers will close after 6 months so players and guilds can plan around it as the only reason to releases with lots of servers is to ensure a smooth experience and quest items aren't too difficult to obtain. If people knew that servers would close they can plan accordingly.

Alternatively, just release one server at a time for new players and once it reaches capacity release another server, then another and so on - at least that way a server will always be full. As players leave the game, simply merge a server behind the scenes (keeping the players form each server together). For example:

• Server A at release, becomes full

• Server B is opened, then becomes full

• Server C is opened, becomes full

• Server D is opened, becomes medium population

• Server A, B & C become low/medium population after 6 months,

• Server A & B merge together to become new Server A high population

• Server C & D merge together to become new Server B high population

..so you have 2 high population servers as opposed to 4 low/medium population servers, which have been merged automatically behind the scenes without the bad press that goes with optional transfers. I know some people (including me) want to stay on a single server for immersion purposes but I care less about staying loyal to one particular named server but care more about having a vibrant highly populated server (as long as guilds & friends are kept together, obviously). Surely the technology is there.

While I'm not taking your post literally, there would still be the issue that at launch, there would be people who start playing, only to have their server fill up, and their guild not be able to get on. This is why there are queues on some servers. I think it's important to publicise servers before launch, and have a specific label almost for each server. Release is bumpy at the best of times... so keeping people waiting because there are no servers open would really suck, and be a horrible first impression for the player.

Games need to launch with too many servers unfortunately.

[Shintu]

I remember when Rift Launched....all the servers they opened! I mean they got close to 100 or so IIRC. Im so glad they never had to do server mergers!!

[the_real_seebs]

I remember when Rift Launched....all the servers they opened! I mean they got close to 100 or so IIRC. Im so glad they never had to do server mergers!!

They peaked at 99. The original planned list for North America was 18 servers; I think they ended up somewhere in the 50s in NA at peak. Note that all of that is above planned capacity; their plan was to launch with 18 servers to handle the huge load at launch, then possibly reduce capacity later if people didn't stay. (Note also that they've increased capacity of servers at least once since then.)

[Hugatree]

The reason the servers were merged was because of something called a super server? I don't recall exactly however the new servers are supposed to host 4x the original servers populations.

I'm not ready to say that SWTOR is in decline...

[Hugatree]

Most recent article discussing the sub figures I could find....

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05...r-sub-numbers/

By most standards they're doing fairly well.

[Laeris]

Most recent article discussing the sub figures I could find....

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05...r-sub-numbers/

By most standards they're doing fairly well.

So well they are closing 9/10ths of their servers, laid off a sizable portion of their development staff, and are publicly admitting to wanting to go free to play. A game doing fairly well does none of these.

[Hugatree]

So well they are closing 9/10ths of their servers, laid off a sizable portion of their development staff, and are publicly admitting to wanting to go free to play. A game doing fairly well does none of these.

Yeah, the public F2P statement was taken out of context.The repercussions are already in play.

The server merges...Im going to assume this is the first MMO you've dealt with, cause frankly its a process most MMO gamers are familiar with. Never mind the 'super servers' variable they threw into the works.

Again the figures are in direct conflict with your 'assumptions' and 'speculation', which I again have to reassert I'm not okay with.

I'm not attacking your speculation, I'm simply stating that without evidence, all the arguments and doom crying are pointless. The fact that in this case its compounded by figures that indicate otherwise cause me to boggle at the wild leaps of intellect.....I wish I could ignore all the evidence and blissfully hop on the 'oh noes' bandwagon as well...

[Laeris]

Yeah, the public F2P statement was taken out of context.The repercussions are already in play.

The server merges...Im going to assume this is the first MMO you've dealt with, cause frankly its a process most MMO gamers are familiar with. Never mind the 'super servers' variable they threw into the works.

Again the figures are in direct conflict with your 'assumptions' and 'speculation', which I again have to reassert I'm not okay with.

I'm not attacking your speculation, I'm simply stating that without evidence, all the arguments and doom crying are pointless. The fact that in this case its compounded by figures that indicate otherwise cause me to boggle at the wild leaps of intellect.....I wish I could ignore all the evidence and blissfully hop on the 'oh noes' bandwagon as well...

I am not doom crying. I am simply stating the obvious. It's just when a company does layoffs coupled with corporate officers saying the reason why was driven by declining subscriptions... then followed up by a massive server closing/merger... It doesn't really leave much speculation as to the nature of their situation. What I'm getting at isn't to do with their sub counts... those are meaningless to me. What it all points to is the need to lower the bottom line because they aren't meeting it for whatever reason. Hence the server consolidation and manpower reduction. You don't do that and eat negative press (which drives down stock values) when everything is sunshine and rose petals.

Now, you can call it a leap of logic... but an MMOs prime source of revenue is subscription fees. If an MMO developer is not meeting their bottom line, it is because subscriptions are down. That's my logical argument and I think it's a valid one.

[Laeris]

And to dovetail on that sentiment... it is possible that they are doing "really well" in terms of population from the perspective of an average gamer. They might see a lot of people and are happy for it. The problem they're having isn't a population issue. SWTOR's overhead is huge. They have huge IP costs, 150-200 million (or whatever the actual number is) in development costs to recoup and a large international design bureau to fund. It is entirely plausible for a gamer who loves the game who sees a lot of people on their server to one day log in to a closed account because the company went belly up because it couldn't make payroll.

IE 38 Studios.

[Hugatree]

I am not doom crying. I am simply stating the obvious. It's just when a company does layoffs coupled with corporate officers saying the reason why was driven by declining subscriptions... then followed up by a massive server closing/merger... It doesn't really leave much speculation as to the nature of their situation. What I'm getting at isn't to do with their sub counts... those are meaningless to me. What it all points to is the need to lower the bottom line because they aren't meeting it for whatever reason. Hence the server consolidation and manpower reduction. You don't do that and eat negative press (which drives down stock values) when everything is sunshine and rose petals.

Now, you can call it a leap of logic... but an MMOs prime source of revenue is subscription fees. If an MMO developer is not meeting their bottom line, it is because subscriptions are down. That's my logical argument and I think it's a valid one.

Fair enough.

However the facts being used aren't accurate. I don't know if I can further elaborate, when I initially came across this article I spent some time researching. It didn't take long to discover that the article was from an unreliable author.

As for the server merges, I again did my research, only to discover that the 'server merges' being instituted weren't traditional server merges.

The layoffs, they're a fairly common occurrence in the gaming industry, couple that with the fact that they still have 'one of the biggest' dev teams in the industry.

Combining all the evidence the only responsible conclusion that can be drawn is that the evidence is inconclusive. Until there's concrete evidence that SWTOR is failing I'll wait to draw my conclusion.

[Salamol]

Combining all the evidence the only responsible conclusion that can be drawn is that the evidence is inconclusive. Until there's concrete evidence that SWTOR is failing I'll wait to draw my conclusion.

Oh I think it is definitely failing in the eyes of the top dogs. It's far from a total catastrophe however, but it's not meeting the targets the top dogs would have hoped for.

[Annalea]

As for the server merges, I again did my research, only to discover that the 'server merges' being instituted weren't traditional server merges.

Can people still roll new characters on the servers that are being 'merged'? That was my understanding of it and, while not 'traditional', cutting off the flow of new life to your server is a pretty sure way to encourage transfers to destination servers. What's more, I believe that they've specified that the servers will be taken down eventually.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, these are details I've heard elsewhere - I've not bothered to look to deeply into the matter.

The layoffs, they're a fairly common occurrence in the gaming industry, couple that with the fact that they still have 'one of the biggest' dev teams in the industry.

That's quite true. And, quite naturally, a game that's been deployed already is technically going to need less of a team to work on it. But I do think that it is a good indication of the future; those jobs are essentially resources that could be used towards future projects. By future projects, I mean both games planned by the company as well as maintenance and additional content. It's common enough, you're absolutely right. But I think you're going to have a hard time arguing that it's a positive (or even neutral) indication!

That says, to me, that someone had weighed up the current value of the game against what the current team could potentially create and decided that the jobs were too expensive for what they could possibly bring about.

They do have a big dev team. But some of the debacles they've had, such as the low resolution texture 'feature' the had on launch, do not inspire confidence in what their team is capable of. I won't get into too much detail with speculation as to why, because it really is just speculation based on my intuition with regards how technical projects go.

Until there's concrete evidence that SWTOR is failing I'll wait to draw my conclusion.

Well! You're not going to find that, unless they also laid off their marketing team! Letting people know your project is failing is a good way to dissuade new sales and future interest!

However!

Do I hope that the project is failing? Nope. I don't like the game and vehemently disagree with many of their design decisions. But, at the end of the day, I wish them all the best. I have no doubt they have some great, talented people who are every bit as passionate about what they do as people you'll find with Trion (or any other game developer). And they're getting great experience in how not to do things!

[SanguineDeath]

The reason the servers were merged was because of something called a super server? I don't recall exactly however the new servers are supposed to host 4x the original servers populations.

I'm not ready to say that SWTOR is in decline...

Well, I'm ready to say, Requiescat in Pace - now pull out your wallets and get ready to join all the other games using microtransactions and all around F2P fun People, it is what it is - the Tortanic, a sinking ship going down faster than a turd in a toilet... Even Actiblizz has sold their soul and going microtransactions. It's all so shameful. But then again, SWTOR, from the very beginning, was a major embarrassment from a gaming perspective. I just bought Kingdoms of Amalur, yeah, I'm a RPG junkie as well, and let me tell you, the graphics and game play on that game are a 1000x better.

[the_real_seebs]

While many companies shut down teams and lay people off after completion, not all do -- Rift's been hiring since launch, for instance, and it shows.