So how does SWTOR compare to RIFT?

[Neo Omni]

I haven't tried SWTOR out yet...just wondering if I should bother.

I like RIFT..hoping SWTOR would be better...somehow.

[Neo Omni]

Nevermind...just found the thread.

Bioware should have just stuck with making KOTOR #3 instead of getting into the MMO field.

[Rayner]

I haven't tried SWTOR out yet...

Well, I could give you some really general pros and cons for each, but you should probably be a smart person and play the game before you form an oponion of it. So the pros of SWTOR are-

Bioware should have just stuck with making KOTOR #3 instead of getting into the MMO field.

Oh, ok. You're going with this route instead.

[Fujitasix]

I think Rayner is the only person promoting the game as serviceable around here.

I played it for the obligatory month, having petered out near level 35 with the tedious story but determined to hit "end game". I reached 50, I played up to valor rank 56 (almost Battle Master as a Pub, I was hitting warzones instead of doing side quests that consisted of gather 3 disable 3 kill 10/20/40). Not having fun mind you, but determined to see the gamut of things to do.

I ran several expert flashpoints, most of which had mobs either broken LoS, stuck in the geometry, boss mechanics that did not work and would either wipe you or make it trivial, etc. Other than Taral V, they were very much similar in appearance and you were killing droids or vermin ad naseum. In my opinion, they felt very amateurish and thrown together to meet some predetermined criteria for X number of available options at launch. These were simply places to gear up, and I quickly decided PvP gear available at 20,40, and 50 would make for easier upgrades with less frustration and boredom.

I played a gunnery commando, and the input lag coupled with animations > gcd and cast bar made for some incredibly bad PvP and overall wonky input. I keybind everything, I've played WoW arena to 2.3k when it meant something, and I've got 3 Rift R8s. I'm accustomed to crisp responses, and with so many channeled abilities in gunnery, this was a crippling oversight for the game. Alacrity (haste) makes it worse, because it does not reduce the time of the animations, as I learned at level 50 when you can stack that stat and use a relic for significant boosts. The sloppy interface response was a game breaking element for me, much less the inability to rescale or intuitive keybinding features.

The game has a dull appearance, not entirely unpleasant to look at, but very contrived feeling. Maybe "plastic" is the right word. The voice acting was quality work, but just not enough to carry the shell of an MMO that probably needed another year of development.

I think the longer you hold off trying it, the better. The game can do nothing but improve.

[Neo Omni]

I think the longer you hold off trying it, the better. The game can do nothing but improve.

...that is, if it doesn't die first.

Shame really. Star Wars is really a good theme but theme doesn't make the game.

I got suspicious when I first saw clips of it. My first response was...why are the graphics so dated?

Mentioned this on their forum pre-release. Got shouted down by the fanboys. I saw the writing on the wall then. For a game that I have waited years for, I'm not even going to bother subbing.

Sadly there are really no viable spaced based MMOs out there and I dont care for EVE Online. What they call "hardcore" is just doubtl-talk for sanctioned griefing IMO...but that's another story.

Hopefully something new will come about but for now, it looks like RIFT is it for me.

[Rayner]

I think Rayner is the only person promoting the game as serviceable around here.

There are a few others, but this isn't shocking. It's much more likely that someone will go onto the internet and ***** about something than they will praise it.

...that is, if it doesn't die first.

You know, I really enjoyed my time playing Rift, I have very few bad things to say about it, and I hope to be able to return to it some day, but it's people like you that make me really hate the game somehow despite this. Rift is closing servers left and right; its population is dwindling and its forums are as full of as many "doomsayers" as any. SWTOR, meanwhile, is still doing good financially - better than Rift has ever done, let alone after its first month. Yet you have the balls to say that SWTOR is in any more of a position to "die?"

[Neo Omni]

...but it's people like you that make me really hate the game somehow despite this... Yet you have the balls to say that SWTOR is in any more of a position to "die?"

Dude, it's just a comment on a game forum. Get over it already.

[Rayner]

Dude, it's just a comment on a game forum. Get over it already.

You're right, hate was a strong word. It's people like you who make me feel sorry for Trion and this game despite actually really liking it.

[the_real_seebs]

I think Rayner is the only person promoting the game as serviceable around here.

I haven't played it, but I have friends who are playing it. It's an MMO, loosely. They are really enjoying some parts of it, which they like better than Rift. They are disliking other parts, some of which they describe as ridiculously bad.

MHO, it's a personal taste thing. If the storyline and companion stuff is really fun for you, you'll probably enjoy the game. If you want a challenging game where you really have to play excellently to succeed, Rift isn't for you, but ToR is quite a lot worse.

Honestly, if I weren't really sick of the Lucas setting, and unfond of EA, I would probably get ToR and play it to level once or twice.

[Narfalicious]

There are a few others, but this isn't shocking. It's much more likely that someone will go onto the internet and ***** about something than they will praise it.

You know, I really enjoyed my time playing Rift, I have very few bad things to say about it, and I hope to be able to return to it some day, but it's people like you that make me really hate the game somehow despite this. Rift is closing servers left and right; its population is dwindling and its forums are as full of as many "doomsayers" as any. SWTOR, meanwhile, is still doing good financially - better than Rift has ever done, let alone after its first month. Yet you have the balls to say that SWTOR is in any more of a position to "die?"

I'm not sure how much they put into development, I've heard a lot, but have they made up their development and initial advertising costs already?

[Rayner]

I'm not sure how much they put into development, I've heard a lot, but have they made up their development and initial advertising costs already?

Without knowing how much they put into it there's no real way of knowing. I've seen $80 million, $100 million, $200 million, $300 million, and $500 million. The number I see thrown around most often, though, is $200 million, so let's stick with that.

They've sold over 2 million copies and have 1.7 million active subscriptions (e.g. paid for one month at least). An article from about six years ago on the economics of game publishing said publishers get around $16 per box sold. I'm not sure if that's based on a $50 game or a $60 game, or how things might have changed in six years. I'm also not sure how many copies EA has sold via Origin, in which case they would get the full amount. There's also the price of the collector's edition and digital deluxe edition, but I won't count those. Let's say 1/4 of their sales were through origin, and they get $20 per box sold:

($20 * 1.5 million + ($60 * .5 million) = $60 million

1.7 million people paying $15 for this month is:

($15 * 1.7) = $25 million

So that's $85 million made so far with my probably poor estimations. There's development and server costs to consider, too. EA has said that SWTOR needs 500k subscribers to remain profitable. That means the game can be profitable on (.5 * 15) = $7.5 million / month. Let's be really conservative and say it takes $5 million to operate and develop a month, which would be a pretty poor profit for EA. At this rate, they'll be making $20 million a month, and will break even in half a year.

Rift, by contrast, cost $50 million to make, although Trion itself has received about $185 million in investments over the past couple of years. They're working on two other games that I know of at the moment, so who knows how much is actually pumping into Rift all together this past year. Rift itself made $100 million in 10 months, which is currently about half as profitable per month than SWTOR.

[CaptFailure]

Short answer: It doesn't.

[Focusv5]

I've been trying to find good alternatives to rift due to the fact that I've grown bored of it and I just can't. The only MMO i'm looking forward to is FFXIV 2.0 (i'm a ffxi fanboy sorry). As it stands right now, in terms of quality and development, RIFT is really the top dog. They push content out faster than any other MMO, all the while bringing down the servers for only 30mins every patch.

SWTOR patches take on AVERAGE 8 hours, and what they actually fix, the RIFT developers could do in their sleep, and have the servers up and running within the next 15 minutes. I haven't leveled far enough into the game to get into the endgame content which I've heard is nearly nonexistent. Leveling up in the game is incredibly long and boring, the majority of which is spent spamming space bar to skip through pointless cutscene after cutscene. I also hate grinding through quests to level up so I was very thankful that RIFT had a dungeon queue, SWTOR does not.

If you're just bored of RIFT, you will just be even more bored in SWTOR once you get past the "omg lightsabers!" phase

[merrier]

Rift is closing servers left and right; its population is dwindling and its forums are as full of as many "doomsayers" as any.

Actually, on balance, Rift forums have been more positive lately than they were for a long while. The server consolidations seem to have made a lot of people happy. Rift is so dependent on a good server population. Getting the number of servers to fit the number of players is an awesome thing for Rift.

Beta buzz about how fun the game was made the launch blow up beyond anyone's expectations. Now we're at a good level.

SWTOR, meanwhile, is still doing good financially - better than Rift has ever done, let alone after its first month. Yet you have the balls to say that SWTOR is in any more of a position to "die?"

Yes, SW has done way better financially. How could it not? It was hyped to death. It had Bioware and Star Wars behind it. Rift had...errr, umm, a good product from a company lots of folks never heard of.

Seriously, Rayner, SW doesn't need you to come here and defend it. They are in two very different situations. Yeah, if Trion had the overhead Bioware has and had invested the amount they did, Rift would be in big trouble.

Luckily, they're a much smaller company. They can do very, very well for themselves without however many million people SW has. Success is not measured in how many people play but in how many people play compared to how much it costs to keep the game going.

[the_real_seebs]

Hard to figure direct comparisons. I am also unsure how to interpret the 500k users to be profitable number -- I'm assuming that means "sustained over time in order to finish making money back", but I can't tell.