TORtanic” – Star Wars: The Old Republic sinking fast

[moralltach]

The relatively new Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game “Star Wars: The Old Republic” is getting bad fast. In fact, the game is screwing up so badly due to a new update that the slowly dying MMO has been dubbed “TORtanic” by many of the players.
So what happened?
From what I can gather, it all began with the mediocre game being updated with a 1.1 patch. The long story short, as perhaps best illustrated by this video, is that the 1.1 broke the game by making it possible for one set of players (those playing for the Empire) to basically massacre an entire other set of players (those playing for the Republic). In fact, the Empire can kill the Republic at spawn points, basically meaning that players on the side of the Republic cannot play the game, and are in effect stuck in a constant loop where they do nothing but die. For some reason, TOR developer Bioware is “investigating” rather than simply “fixing” this issue, despite the fact that the problem is pretty self-evident and game-destroying.
So, as one might guess, a lot of Republic players got pissed off about this and decided to suspend their subscription to the game. This is a pretty logical choice to make: after all, it makes no sense to pay for a game you cannot play. The problem? Bioware removed the “cancel subscription” button and is hiding the mechanisms by which players can stop paying for the game. Bioware has not only hidden the “cancel subscription” button, but some players are complaining that customer service is hanging up on them. Thus, most players are forced to pay for a game they cannot play.
Of course, as a former web developer/programmer, I can assure you that buttons don’t disappear. Website designs can cause all sorts of hell, but of the many things that can happen, buttons do not conveniently disappear because someone uses a special web browser.
Thinking this whole affair was unfair, user “Kraiten” decided to help his fellow gamers by providing them the following link to unsubsribe from TOR:
For those of you keeping score at home, this means that Bioware has not only massively screwed up their game, but that they are actively trying to lock players into subscriptions for their game in order to make it profitable for as long as possible. The company is even trying to bribe players to stay on the game by providing a “Founder’s Medal” to all players who maintain their subscription to the broken game.
The company has also seemingly threatened players “taking advantage” of the broken game (presumably, by killing Republic players or something), but it seems somewhat ludicrous for them to purport to punish people for playing the game in a way they designed it. Of course, Bioware refuses to actually roll the game back and fix the issue so that everyone is on an equal level — rather, they seem to want to just find a scapegoat and punish them to avoid discussing their horrible game.
It appears that Bioware is in trouble. If this game — and the behavior of their staffers — in any way indicates their standard for good business, then they are going to die off quickly. Stuff like this doesn’t go unpunished.

[Archemys]

Tell my guildies to come back, and that we merged with another guild because we didn't have enough people to raid. k tnx

[moralltach]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0kD...layer_embedded

[Archemys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0kD...layer_embedded

lol

that's pretty bad.

[moralltach]

yeah and worse i could say

[Homebrew]

These threads are one of the primary reasons I took / am taking an extended break from these forums.

Most of the anti-TOR threads are hilariously inaccurate and biased, but this one actually deserves a response. I'm looking forward to deconstructing and subsequently destroying almost everything you've said.

First and foremost, I play on three different servers. Two are Standard population and one is consistently Heavy (sans queue times). At any given time, the Fleet - the city hub - has roughly 150 - 175 people. Most zones have around 30 - 50 people actively playing and I also frequent several instanced dungeons (Flashpoints) including a few raids. In all of that time, I've never once heard the term TORtanic, nor have I seen it on the ridiculously active official forums. So clearly this expression was invented by either an anti-TOR tool, or a community that feels obligated to crap on other people's interests in order to validate their own. Which is about as sad and stupid as the name TORtanic is.

The second part of your post, which requires the most negative attention, is how you described the 1.1 patch. If someone who hadn't played the game they'd assume you were talking about something that spanned at least a few weeks, perhaps since the initial release.

Patch 1.1 was implemented yesterday.

In addition, the way it "ruined the game" or whatever the hell you tried to articulate (poorly) was that it gave people on heavily imbalanced servers, where say, the Empire had 3x the players as Republic, an advantage where they could simply camp a PVP area and murder everyone that attempted to show up - giving the Empire (in most cases) the ability to gain a lot of Valor and ultimately rise in rank faster than the game anticipated. Which might sound familiar, considering in games like every god damn MMO I can think of that utilizes factions, or sides, there is always a point where there's a huge advantage for one faction and they tend to exploit it in their best interest.

But don't worry, I won't mention the whole PVP Rifts (in Rift) fiasco that went on far longer than TOR's "accident" and gave people a tremendous advantage. Because that would make your entire critique kind of hilarious. Which leads me to the second important piece of information:

Patch 1.1a, addressing these issues was released today.

So in less than 24 hours this game destroying issue that affected PVP for some people, was, for the most part, resolved.

You also made claims such as:

"So, as one might guess, a lot of Republic players got pissed off about this and decided to suspend their subscription to the game."

Or

"...so badly due to a new update that the slowly dying MMO..."

It's bad enough you're making claims with absolutely zero tangible evidence but you're doing it without even having played the game. And don't tell me you did for like a week and it sucked, because even biased reviewers like IGN and Gamespot spend a hell of a lot more time than a few days to even suggest an official score for an MMO.

Then, you went out to suggest the Cancel Subscription button was "hidden."

Really? I'm looking at it right now. And it's super hard to find: My Account > Subscription > Cancel Subscription. Clearly a conspiracy to manipulate players into paying more money by putting the button in the most obvious f'ing place possible. And it was never gone, nor have I spoken to anyone claiming it was. If someone complained their button was removed, it was very likely an isolated issue pertaining to their account / activity.

"Of course, as a former web developer/programmer, I can assure you that buttons don’t disappear. Website designs can cause all sorts of hell, but of the many things that can happen, buttons do not conveniently disappear because someone uses a special web browser."

Actually, things do disappear, break alignment and proximity, etc between different platforms. Regardless, as I said, I doubt anything broke, vanished or was deceptively hidden. And believe it or not, people on forums actually lie sometimes. Especially when they're somadbro.

"Of course, Bioware refuses to actually roll the game back and fix the issue so that everyone is on an equal level — rather, they seem to want to just find a scapegoat and punish them to avoid discussing their horrible game."

Let me understand this - you're suggesting that for the hundreds of thousands of people that were playing the game at the time - the ones that were not participating in the "event," should all of their progress and accomplishments reverted 24 hours. There's probably a reason you're not at Bioware, or Trion for that matter, calling the shots.

"It appears that Bioware is in trouble. If this game — and the behavior of their staffers — in any way indicates their standard for good business, then they are going to die off quickly. Stuff like this doesn’t go unpunished."

Yeah, don't even know what the hell that means. I don't think you do, either.

The bottom line is that I've avoided these forums, but this was too good to pass up. I loved Rift. I still love Trion. I think they're rockstars. I also think Blizzard are rockstars. Any gaming company that can keep my interest for more than a month and encourage me to call in sick just to stay home and play, is a rockstar in my book and Blizzard, Trion, and Bioware have done this well above and beyond. It's people like you, and recently a massive piece of the community here that has gone out of their way to attack TOR. Why do you do that? I have a few guesses:

1. You're insecure in the low population on your server ,or all of your guild disbanded / left you and the only way you can get your ex-girlfriend back is by making fun of the guy she's with, finding all his faults and ripping him to shreds, whether you're being fair / accurate or not. Because you're a sad little baby.

2. You think it's hilarious when hundreds of thousands of people attempt to entertain the masses and end up losing their jobs, homes, and other important things that keep their blood pumping. You think it's absolutely hysterical to watch someone struggle to survive and fail, or drop millions of dolllars (that you don't have) in an attempt to create a product that'll make billions of dollars (that you'll never see) only to lose everything.

3. You need to justify the time and energy you've invested in Rift (or another MMO) and in order to do that you need to convince yourself - and others - that you've clearly made the right decision and even temptation to "join the darkside" is a horrible sin. In summation: you've made the game into a religion, and anything else is blasphemy. Everyone that plays something else is a sinning idiot, damned to hell.

Take your pick. Or a combination of the three. I don't really care.

And if you're wondering what inspired me to beat the hell out of another shallow, stupid argument, it's because I actually would like to see TOR grow. I personally enjoy the game, as do some of my friends, and the more subscribers they acquire the more we selfishly benefit from the money put into the game's development. That means every time someone like you plasters falsehoods and garbage on Forums you drive away entertainment from my game by lying and manipulating. Something I don't have to do since everything I've said is based on facts and evidence I'd be happy to provide.

But I won't because this is about as much energy as I have for this argument.

I hope you can enjoy Rift (a great game) without shredding everything that isn't it.

I'm done here.

Homebrew

[the_real_seebs]

A good post, Homebrew. Thanks.

I love rift, and I'm not even planning to try ToR, but I have a couple of friends who are playing it and having a great time. I am fine with this.

[moralltach]

only what is change that they move +30 meters and stil exist instant dead

[Paragoon]

A good post, Homebrew. Thanks.

I love rift, and I'm not even planning to try ToR, but I have a couple of friends who are playing it and having a great time. I am fine with this.

You honestly think homebrew made a good post when he says

1. You're insecure in the low population on your server ,or all of your guild disbanded / left you and the only way you can get your ex-girlfriend back is by making fun of the guy she's with, finding all his faults and ripping him to shreds, whether you're being fair / accurate or not. Because you're a sad little baby.

And if you're wondering what inspired me to beat the hell out of another shallow, stupid argument, it's because I actually would like to see TOR grow.
Homebrew

Are you sure you're a community officer? His post is offensive and insulting.

[the_real_seebs]

You honestly think homebrew made a good post

Overall? Yes. He made a lot of good points.

I didn't say I agreed with every last bit of it, but frankly, I basically share his analysis of all the ToR-bashing. It's really unjustified, just like all the Rift-bashing in WoW forums, WAR-bashing in WoW forums, Rift-bashing in WAR forums, and so on. Yeah, the game may well have flaws, but a lot of what people are doing isn't serious reasoned discussion of game design choices, it's bashing and FUD.

I think most of the ToR-bashing is childish and reflects badly on the Rift player base. I have friends who are playing ToR and having a great time. This isn't because they're liars, idiots, or bioware fanboys; it's because ToR does a good job of providing a kind of game experience they enjoy.

Looking again at what he said:

[...] It's people like you, and recently a massive piece of the community here that has gone out of their way to attack TOR. Why do you do that? I have a few guesses:

1. You're insecure in the low population on your server ,or all of your guild disbanded / left you and the only way you can get your ex-girlfriend back is by making fun of the guy she's with, finding all his faults and ripping him to shreds, whether you're being fair / accurate or not. Because you're a sad little baby.

2. You think it's hilarious when hundreds of thousands of people attempt to entertain the masses and end up losing their jobs, homes, and other important things that keep their blood pumping. You think it's absolutely hysterical to watch someone struggle to survive and fail, or drop millions of dolllars (that you don't have) in an attempt to create a product that'll make billions of dollars (that you'll never see) only to lose everything.

3. You need to justify the time and energy you've invested in Rift (or another MMO) and in order to do that you need to convince yourself - and others - that you've clearly made the right decision and even temptation to "join the darkside" is a horrible sin. In summation: you've made the game into a religion, and anything else is blasphemy. Everyone that plays something else is a sinning idiot, damned to hell.

Take your pick. Or a combination of the three. I don't really care.

I'd tend to guess that #3 is the largest cause, just because it's a very familiar pattern; look at gaming console wars, MMO debates, anything like that. #1... well, we don't have to like it, but humans are like that. Just about everyone is like that some of the time. #2, I think, is probably rare, but from the way some people talk, I think it's not as rare as I wish it were.

[Glamour]

Most of the anti-TOR threads are hilariously inaccurate and biased

That's going a bit far

And if you're wondering what inspired me to beat the hell out of another shallow, stupid argument, it's because I actually would like to see TOR grow. I personally enjoy the game, as do some of my friends

Glad you're having fun, it's a shame you came back to the forums only to feed a fairly obvious troll. your posts are usually enjoyable

That means every time someone like you plasters falsehoods and garbage on Forums you drive away entertainment from my game by lying and manipulating. Something I don't have to do since everything I've said is based on facts and evidence I'd be happy to provide.

Same thing has been happening on game forums all over the internet since... what year was the net invented again?

[Homebrew]

Thanks Seebs. And Paragoon, those were rhetorical options. I do actually believe they apply to a lot of people, or none at all, but when it comes to blatant MMO bashing - as seebs said, regardless of the game - most of those people do fall into one of those categories. You typically don't need a degree in Psychology to see through people that have an abundance of blind rage towards competing MMOs.

So no, I'm not suggesting that everyone does. Those were in fact educated guesses. The "sad little baby" part probably could have left out, but overall I wouldn't retract another word of it.

As I said one of the reasons I don't post here anymore (not that you care) is because threads like this are poison. They start a movement of hate and half the threads are locked by the very company you're trying to support. Because that company doesn't support emotionally unstable supporters.

Which is ironically(?) another reason I respect Trion.

[Glamour]

I'd tend to guess that #3 is the largest cause, just because it's a very familiar pattern; look at gaming console wars, MMO debates, anything like that. #1... well, we don't have to like it, but humans are like that. Just about everyone is like that some of the time. #2, I think, is probably rare, but from the way some people talk, I think it's not as rare as I wish it were.

OR maybe it's none of the above or a little of all of the above

People who like Tor are playing it. The people who don't like Tor are doing what people always do, virtually and in real life and telling other people why they don't like it.


Trolls are just trolls and need no reason to do what they do other than /popcorn /e - attention

Just delete the damn thread already nothing good can come of it.

[Homebrew]

That's going a bit far

""

Glad you're having fun, it's a shame you came back to the forums only to feed a fairly obvious troll. your posts are usually enjoyable

""

Same thing has been happening on game forums all over the internet since... what year was the net invented again?

I'm not really targeting just him, but everyone that's posting threads like this. That was kind of my point. I wasn't about to respond to all of them, so I just went after one person that kind of encompassed the majority's voice. These forums have been poisoned by threads like this, and I personally (and I don't think I'm alone here, including Trion) think it sucks.

I agree that it happens a lot, but you can't deny there's an abundance of this going on more than usual. It seems like Off Topic could be qualified as ToR Bashing at this point. Even Trion has asked nicely that people - and I'm paraphrasing here - "please stop doing this **** because it's driving us ******* crazy."

[Slipmat]

While i admire (mostly) some players passion to defend their new shiny, it seems the TOR fanbase are adopting the ostrich head in the sand syndrome, as well as the fingers in ears singing 'la-la-la-la'

There is no doubt the game was released far too soon, while launch was smooth in terms of server stability etc, the exploits and bugs are proving too much...plus taking servers down for Prime Time playing here in Europe so as not to 'upset' the North American players is ridiculous, at least seperate maintenance times

But, seems even Wall Street is now having doubts as to the viability of SW: TOR, you know what happens when the bean counters and guys in suits get twitchy......

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Shares of Electronic Arts Inc. fell nearly 3% to $17.75 on Thursday morning after an analyst with Brean Murray Carret & Co. cut his price target on the stock to $22 from $28, citing concerns about the recently released online multi-player game "Star Wars: The Old Republic." In a note to clients, analyst Todd Mitchell wrote that "creeping concerns" about the performance of "Star Wars" -- which was released in late December -- is causing him to trim his earnings estimates for the 2013 fiscal year. "Specifically, initial sales appear to be below expectations, and casual observation of early play is causing us to rethink our churn assumptions," Mitchell wrote.

Source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-...me_latest_news