When you can be everything, you are nothing.

[SporkWitch]

Yeah, the class system is new and exciting to me, nice innovation. There are plenty of games where you choose your class, and a spec, and then that is it. Also with the way rifts work, a player whose primary class does death damage, would havea hard time at a rift for the Plane of Death. This way they can respec, and assist their friends without any need to travel back to a trainer to swap.

Hardly new (EVE, FFXIV, SWG -- though you had to re-earn the XP in this one --, FFXI, even UO in that you could level whatever skills you wanted, and there are others as well). That being said, some of the reasons it's great are the reasons you say. It's also the direction most good games are going these days, and the direction the worst one ever released (WoW) is moving even further away from (the pre-cataclysm patches made it so once you pick a spec, you're locked into it until you put something like 31 points into it, out of a max of -- i think -- 37 total points at max level; game was bad enough to begin with, but that's the single biggest eff-up yet, in terms of making the game even worse than it already was).

that works up to a point.. after that point... that 1/28th of 1% means the difference between the boss still standing and the raid standing for the kill photo..

And if it's coming down to that 1/28 of 1%, your team sucks and is depending too much on "right" builds , levels, and gear, to make up for the fact that they, as players, suck. Yours is the same defense min/maxers have always used, likewise for the nubs that depend entirely on threat meters and damage meters (while never actually learning how to manage damage output and hate generation / mitigation, because they depend entirely on their meters). Nothing good comes of these philosophies, only a bunch of min/maxing noobs that have no clue how or ability to actually play, let alone play well.

[Beta]

And if it's coming down to that 1/28 of 1%, your team sucks and is depending too much on "right" builds , levels, and gear, to make up for the fact that they, as players, suck. Yours is the same defense min/maxers have always used, likewise for the nubs that depend entirely on threat meters and damage meters (while never actually learning how to manage damage output and hate generation / mitigation, because they depend entirely on their meters). Nothing good comes of these philosophies, only a bunch of min/maxing noobs that have no clue how or ability to actually play, let alone play well.

When you fight to make your toon the best and get 1% more out of it, and get a guild gathered around you with that same drive. That 20% is gonna put mobs down, and you can just read and be amazed at what these fine tuners do. Not even gonna bother with the name calling, just seek help for your envy.

[SporkWitch]

When you fight to make your toon the best and get 1% more out of it, and get a guild gathered around you with that same drive. That 20% is gonna put mobs down, and you can just read and be amazed at what these fine tuners do. Not even gonna bother with the name calling, just seek help for your envy.

Yes, when you and 19 other people fight to get that extra 1% for a total of 20% more (in stats alone), you can accomplish the same thing that 20 skilled players can with 50% of your total stats. Especially in any good game that (by definition) doesn't put 99% of the emphasis on level, gear, and the "right" build.

EDIT:
And I don't know why you're bothering to comment about namecalling unless you ARE one of those nubs that depends on damage and threat meters to make up for the fact that you have no skill and no idea how to play the game well.

[Leovinus]

Also with the way rifts work, a player whose primary class does death damage, would have a hard time at a rift for the Plane of Death.

This actually isn't true. They made a conscious decision not to give a plane's denizens blanket resistance to that damage type so as to avoid this situation. I'd source that, but I don't remember where I saw it, just that I did, though I think it was an article.

[JoshuaPonx]

I get the idea in your ideal world like two threads would be open... and you'd shortly decide they need to be closed as well.

No, I just get overly frustrated with these threads that end up just causing the community to flame eachother.

[JoshuaPonx]

that works up to a point.. after that point... that 1/28th of 1% means the difference between the boss still standing and the raid standing for the kill photo..

If the 1/28th of a percent is the difference between your boss kill and your wipe, you have problems with your raid group.

Now, in some very very rare occassions there are those times when the boss has like 8HP left but everyone dies before he does.

But if your relying on those times and your little optimal build to save you, you'll forever be lacking and be far behind the raiding community.

I get the feeling you are a very elitist PvE player coming over from WoW. Every thread I've seen you post in has either said to get rid of PvP entirely, or to give everything to the PvE group.

I play the game because I like to sit there and design my character the way I want it to play, so when people freak out on me and say "That's a really weird build, lol, mine is better", I can show them up by just being a better player and not standing in the fire.

[Svann]

that works up to a point.. after that point... that 1/28th of 1% means the difference between the boss still standing and the raid standing for the kill photo..

Depends on what you gave up to gain that 1/28 of 1% more dps. If its anything, even a value not measured on a parser, then Id say its likely you lost more than you gained. Its a poor raid design where dps is the only factor.

[tro44]

IMO the main tree shouldnt be allowed to change outside of Main City.

Because this system may go as far as people being forced to spec certain ways within dungeons. sort of kills the point of having trees in the first place.

[Pogin]

I really liked the dual spec in WoW. It would have been even better if you had a tri-spec option since there are 3 trees you can focus on. I also liked (though it sometimes was very frustrating) that you couldn't change spec if you were in a battleground. Trion can put limiters like that in-game in a moment's notice -- why worry about it now? Let's wait and see how it plays out.

[JonathanM]

No, I just get overly frustrated with these threads that end up just causing the community to flame eachother.

Unfortunately, flaming for having differing opinions is going to happen regardless as it seems to be part of the culture in which online gaming is a part of. It doesnt matter if its here, or on a WoW forum, it will happen regardless. In a way, you might even say its a good thing, only in part because it shows that the community is not a small niche of elitist who demand everyone think like them and agree with them. Those types of games tend to ...well have low sub counts. Variety and differences are the precursor to an even larger player base.

That said...

I do agree with the OP in that allowing for builds to be changed anywhere at any time is just bad game design. Convenience can have a bad impact on enjoyment, believe it or not. Dont forget, the very definition of a game is a ruleset with limitations which result in challenges. This means, limitations are GOOD if they result in a form of challenge. RPGs involve micromanagement as one of their defining challenges. It is very important not to undercut this challenge.

Having multiple builds is fine IF there are heavy limitations build into it. A good mechanic for example is to have an NPC do it for you, or an object within a city. A player should have to think ahead, decide tactics (short term) and strategy (long term), planning, as part of the challenge, rather than just switching on demand as it ends up undercutting the main challenges associated with the RPG genre.

Even the frustration of not being able to have the right build at that right time creates an emotional response. IN game design, this is what we strive for as it not only results in immersion but also invested interest in the interactive medium.

I read that some are suggesting that the class is separate from the character. To play for the character not the class. Thats incorrect, as they are not mutually exclusive of one another. A class defines your character by its statistics, its limitations and its modes of play. A player is not the character, rather the character is defined by their statistics, their modes of play and options, which is where we get the "class" from. Thus, the RPG genre focuses on character skill over player skill. Meaning any skill the actual human playing the game has is always LIMITED by the definitions that make up the character. Remember, limitations are what equal fun. You might not realize it, but every single game out there is defined by its limitations. It is part of the "flow" which keeps players engaged.