PvP/PvE Activity Overlap

[Vihor]

The way you put it... yes. A level 10 on a pvp server is asking for it because "he got himself flagged" by rolling PvP in the first place.

Ok..
So lets say TRION in 3 months time introduces GM's to play the game with us..

With GM powers.
And they travel around 1shoting BiS players.

Would you really enjoy that.. I mean you rolled on a pvp server where that is possible.
Beeing killed without having any chance of defending yourself?!
Except you are no longer lvl 10, you are lvl 50.. Why would max lvl shield you from that..
You were asking for it by rolling on a pvp server..

Even better..
Lets have full raids of GM's with GM powers obliterating zones of max lvl BiS players..

Not a 1 time event, but over and over and over and over again..
Lets bet how long would it take for ppl to complain on the forums..
Who am I kidding that would ruin the game faster then cataclysm

[Edarias]

Ok..
So lets say TRION in 3 months time introduces GM's to play the game with us..

With GM powers.
And they travel around 1shoting BiS players.

Would you really enjoy that.. I mean you rolled on a pvp server where that is possible.
Beeing killed without having any chance of defending yourself?!
You were asking for it by rolling on a pvp server..

Even better..
Lets have full raids of GM's with GM powers obliterating zones of max lvl BiS players..

Not a 1 time event, but over and over and over and over again..
Lets bet how long would it take for ppl to complain on the forums..
Who am I kidding that would ruin the game faster then cataclysm

That's a silly comparison, mainly 'cos it makes no sense and holds little relevance to what we're discussing. It's a pvp server so you have to be prepared to get killed as soon as you either a) Choose to flag yourself or b) Enter an auto flag zone. That is how a pvp server in the purest sense works, because pvp, in it's purest form, is about removing boundaries and limitations.

[kuronese]

Ok..
So lets say TRION in 3 months time introduces GM's to play the game with us..

With GM powers.
And they travel around 1shoting BiS players.

Would you really enjoy that.. I mean you rolled on a pvp server where that is possible.
Beeing killed without having any chance of defending yourself?!
Except you are no longer lvl 10, you are lvl 50.. Why would max lvl shield you from that..
You were asking for it by rolling on a pvp server..

Even better..
Lets have full raids of GM's with GM powers obliterating zones of max lvl BiS players..

Not a 1 time event, but over and over and over and over again..
Lets bet how long would it take for ppl to complain on the forums..
Who am I kidding that would ruin the game faster then cataclysm

Ummmm.... what was the point of this post?

[Tasogie]

And it again comes down to your primal, primitive need to kill a defenseless player.

A player on a pvp server is always flagged.. He has no choice about beeing flagged..
Your argument is that a lvl 10 on a pvp server is asking for it because "he got himself flagged"..

I'm sorry I tried talking to you, I didn't realise you have no chance of understanding me..

I wont understand you because your words are nothing but thinly veiled abuse an sarcasm... so I stopped reading an wont bother reading your posts again as I consider them a waste of my time.

For your education, I flag myself at level 1 on every single char I ever play in an MMO... an it stays flagged, as I am sure Edarias can confirm. I also agree that if a player on a PVP server is flagged he deserves to die, because he made the choice to play on pvp servers... get the pattern forming here ??... probably not....

primitive primal need ?? You do understand this is a a COMPUTER GAME??... it has zero relevance to life in even the most minute way. Red = dead, its pvp server for a reason, dont like it, dont play there... or just complain to Trion I am sure they will redo pvp to cater.

[Sheherezade]

Your point is invalid because of the fact that:

- Trion specifically said "we aren't balancing the souls for arena/WF/1v1". They are balancing the PvP in this game around ENDGAME.

-I've already said (in another thread) that if these polarizing changes are implemented at the ruleset level, the no one will care because it won't effect their server of choice. But since apparently, the most obvious solution is also the most resource-intensive, hence why no company willing is doing it (hence, blanket changes at the build level, affecting all server). I was hoping TW would step up to the plate for this for the good of the genre, but now I'm not so sure.

-What game outside of WoW has specifically changed a game function that negatively impacted PvErs on PvE servers? Because that's what my point is entirely. ON AVERAGE, most blanket changes made to MMOs in the last 5 years have been mostly PvE-oreinted changes. There's a good percentage of the PvP community that is super jaded on MMOs because of it. It's now coming down to the point of: Why play MMOs for PvP when PvP is going to get super-restrictive/trivialized as they have been in recent history?

People will start to grumble before the game has been going a month that the classes are out of balance, no matter what Trion has said about balancing them for endgame. People always do. There will be pressure to make changes. If the outcry is great enough (and it almost certainly will be), Trion will no doubt accommodate the (quite legitimate) concerns of PvPers and when they do so it will almost certainly affect PvEers who couldn't really care less about PvP balance. So they will be in the same boat.

I am sure that there will be ample PvP on the PvP servers. Trion has already said that there are going to be more world PvP opportunities. Are the honestly quite minor changes that they've indicated REALLY going to make your PvP experience 'super restricted/trivialized'?

[dp_dropout]

No PvE player will ever roll on a PvP server. Where you people get this ridiculous idea is beyond me.

And I'm also contradicting the fact that PvP always gets changed because of PvE. It's almost always the opposite. Perfect example is AoC. Numerous changes to the classes constantly shafted PvE players but were deemed necessary because PvPers were either exploiting like mad or crying for nerfs because they were getting their ***** kicked all day.

In my experience the biggest cry-babies in an mmo always seem to be the so-called hard-core PvPers. And when they finally succeed in messing up their own server community they will all happily transfer to or re-roll on a PvE server so they can own the carebears.

Give it a rest already and play your own game on your own server and leave everybody else in peace.

[Sheherezade]

Trouble is mate that is what they did... now look at result, you can imagine whats comes next... class nerfs because some pve player got killed by a =x class....

The changes that have been made were done because of complaints that people on PvE servers were making NOT people on PvP servers. If somebody ends up on the wrong type of server then it's his/her own silly fault.

[Ninty K]

Well if they decide to roll on a PvP server then they ought to expect to get killed and will have to put up with griefing. If they don't like this then it serves them right for choosing a PvP server in the first place. They haven't got any grounds for complaint at all.

This is spot on.

[Abey]

well as for pvp server in rift i would prefer aventurine point of view on community.
they didnt give a coin about what we were saying they had their plan and thats all.
trion plan worked great till now ;/

[Myrik]

And it again comes down to your primal, primitive need to kill a defenseless player.

A player on a pvp server is always flagged.. He has no choice about beeing flagged..
Your argument is that a lvl 10 on a pvp server is asking for it because "he got himself flagged"..

I'm sorry I tried talking to you, I didn't realise you have no chance of understanding me..

As a matter of fact yes they do have a choice at level 10. You don't get flagged PvP even on a PvP server until 1 of 2 things happens

1) you take PvP action IE attacking a fellow player
2) you leave Silverwood or freemarch.


So as a level 10 you had to make a conscious decision to flag your self for PvP. So S/He did have it coming.

I disagree with every quest hub becoming a "safe zone" in the sense that the wardstone will sit there pummeling us until we leave. But i do agree with the Main cities being off limits.

[Vihor]

I wont understand you because your words are nothing but thinly veiled abuse an sarcasm... so I stopped reading an wont bother reading your posts again as I consider them a waste of my time.

For your education, I flag myself at level 1 on every single char I ever play in an MMO... an it stays flagged, as I am sure Edarias can confirm. I also agree that if a player on a PVP server is flagged he deserves to die, because he made the choice to play on pvp servers... get the pattern forming here ??... probably not....

primitive primal need ?? You do understand this is a a COMPUTER GAME??... it has zero relevance to life in even the most minute way. Red = dead, its pvp server for a reason, dont like it, dont play there... or just complain to Trion I am sure they will redo pvp to cater.

Newsflash.. Online computer games have RL consequences..
When you kill someone in an online game it effects them IRL..

If they get killed from an "equal lvl" they will try and improve their skill so next time they win..

On the other hand if they get killed from a "bully" it effects their time and level of enjoyment in the game..

If they can't quest, they don't play..
If they can't play they don't pay.
If they don't pay the game fails.

TRION made possible so the basics of the game (questing and leveling) can go on..
Simple as that..

All the mighty pvpers lost is the in game incentinve for ganking lowbies..
Nothing more, nothing else.

To the posters above, that quoted the GM reference..
You only defend killing lowbies cus you are on the OP side..
I tried to show you what happens when you are on the UP side..

[Edarias]

To the posters above, that quoted the GM reference..
You only defend killing lowbies cus you are on the OP side..
I tried to show you what happens when you are on the UP side..

That's not true at all. Plenty of times i've been on the recieving end of a gank. Did I quit? No. Did I qq on the forums? No.

There are a number of strategies you can use to reduce the effect of a higher level killing you. Call a friend, go do some sort of alternative content, relocate your questing (less easy to do in Rift, but still doable)

The GM thing was ridiculous for a number of reasons, at the very least because in the case of a higher level player, you have your own higher level players to call on to help. There was obvious other problems, but those are so obvious that i'm not even going to spend time pointing them out.

[Tasogie]

Newsflash.. Online computer games have RL consequences..
When you kill someone in an online game it effects them IRL..

If they get killed from an "equal lvl" they will try and improve their skill so next time they win..

On the other hand if they get killed from a "bully" it effects their time and level of enjoyment in the game..

If they can't quest, they don't play..
If they can't play they don't pay.
If they don't pay the game fails.

TRION made possible so the basics of the game (questing and leveling) can go on..
Simple as that..

All the mighty pvpers lost is the in game incentinve for ganking lowbies..
Nothing more, nothing else.

To the posters above, that quoted the GM reference..
You only defend killing lowbies cus you are on the OP side..
I tried to show you what happens when you are on the UP side..

Funny I play guardian, I flag myself at level 1, an I kill reds when I see them.... PVE servers have nothing to do with this... The entire issue is about them nerfing pvp servers to cater to pve players who play on pvp servers, go play on any pvp server at beta 6 an watch the screaming complaints threats an demands that questing is too hard.
Exploration gets me killed, pvp is to harsh
leveling speed is too slow
nerf clerics nerf bards nerf rogues.....

All from pve players. guy came out of fae lands other week got killed by a defiant an went mental, said the guy hacked him.... pve player, an irrational fears.... by the way, please use the built in spell check

if you are a low level in low level zone an I come into that zone, you are flagged, then I have every right in world to kill you. If you flag yourself at a low level you are responsible for your own actions...

[Mandrake]

I am all for these changes on PVE servers as it does not effect me.

However, wasn't one of the big selling points of pvp servers that you could help invasions take over quest hubs?



That alone kills that. No more helping invasions kill stones or guards, no more subterfuge of hiding within enemy invasions. I'm glad that one of the big selling points of world pvp has been shut down. Yes you can still kill the players trying to kill the invasion but thats it.

You were supposed to be able to take out wardstones.

Meh PvE server problems messing up world PvP.

^ This ^ I was really looking foward to following an invasion force aswell damn it!
They need to have different rules/settings for PvP servers & PvE servers, otherwise there will alwas be an overlap of PvP on PvE servers & neither PvP players OR PvE players will be completely happy as Trion try to walk the tight rope to keep both sets of players happy.

[Sheherezade]

Funny I play guardian, I flag myself at level 1, an I kill reds when I see them.... PVE servers have nothing to do with this... The entire issue is about them nerfing pvp servers to cater to pve players who play on pvp servers, go play on any pvp server at beta 6 an watch the screaming complaints threats an demands that questing is too hard.
Exploration gets me killed, pvp is to harsh
leveling speed is too slow
nerf clerics nerf bards nerf rogues.....

All from pve players. guy came out of fae lands other week got killed by a defiant an went mental, said the guy hacked him.... pve player, an irrational fears.... buy the way, please use the built in spell check

if you are a low level in low level zone an I come into that zone, you are flagged, then I have every right in world to kill you. If you flag yourself at a low level you are responsible for your own actions...

Nobody should take any notice of the grumbling of PvE players who are stupid enough to roll on a PvP server. I don't suppose that there are many of them though.

You seem to be assuming that all the grumbling from people on PvP servers that you heard was coming from PvE players who were in the wrong place, although why you should think this is beyond me. PvPers are just as liable to moan and complain as PvEers in my experience.