PVP on PVE servers.

[Raive]

PvE servers should have :
1. Flag option (who wants to pvp , feel free to pvp with other pvpers)
2. PvP zone (like winterspring in WoW) , every1 flagged for pvp there
3. PvP instances (arenas, BGs)

The more I think about it. I don't believe its the fact of PVP is what's going get the pure pvers. I think for the complaints I've read, its the supposedly "immatures" that PVP brings. This is just copying an arguement from when VG was battling the whole "bring PVP to PVE (which mind you I supported). I believe the same arguement will be presented here. Now do I classify all PVP folks as immature? Not at all, I think its more of a 'fear" than anything that people believe the chat channels will get filled with the e-peen talk. I dunno. That's the arguement I know will be presented here as to why I just say, to save the troubles. Make the 3 servers so everyone can be happy.

[Apoth]

The more I think about it. I don't believe its the fact of PVP is what's going get the pure pvers. I think for the complaints I've read, its the supposedly "immatures" that PVP brings. This is just copying an arguement from when VG was battling the whole "bring PVP to PVE (which mind you I supported). I believe the same arguement will be presented here. Now do I classify all PVP folks as immature? Not at all, I think its more of a 'fear" than anything that people believe the chat channels will get filled with the e-peen talk. I dunno. That's the arguement I know will be presented here as to why I just say, to save the troubles. Make the 3 servers so everyone can be happy.

thats all it is, fear and yes there are some very immature PVPers as PVP (and competition in general) brings out the worst in people(lord knows how much hate mail i get when i play Street fighter 4 LOL). But i have been around the block a bit and have met some equally immature pure PVE'rs as well.

secondly I don't think ANY PVP will get the pure PVE'rs, and you know what thats cool with me. If you don't want to PVP you shouldn't ever EVER i don't want to force people into something they don't want. but I believe there are a lot of people out there like myself who want some PVP action without having to worry about being ganked anytime they leave the city.

thats why my personal PVP choice is RVR like DAOC, Warhammer.

[Vesavius]

i would classify it as a need. like i said before one of the main reasons WoW was successful is it catered to all playstyles on every server.

you could raid
you could solo
you could group
you could do open world PVP
you could do instanced BGs
you could craft

and all of that on a PVE assigned server, and get rewarded for it.

people complained about battlegrounds coming to EQ2 because "oh we are PVE'rs no one will use them". well they had to take down the BG servers MANY times because too many people were joining them. most games coming out are coming with PVP on "pve" servers so much that soon you wont designated them as PVE servers ... just Regular servers and Open PVP servers.

Rift should do the same or it will be behind the times, especially with some major names coming out soon.

WoW is hugley popular for many reasons, it's just an assumption that it has anything to do with PvP for many. In fact, many many people play the game and never PvP at all.... They are just there because it's mainstream popular, their friends play, they are invested in their PvE characters, and because it's mainstream popular. What you have here is a misconception based on the false idea that just because a game is popular that has PvP it is popular BECAUSE it has PvP.

This idea of being 'behind the times' is nonsense as well imo. Offering pure PvE as a playstyle choice isnt 'behind the times' in any way. Why would it be? it's just catering to another market that at this time is screaming out for a company that will sell them the game they want.

The game will obviously offer PvP on the PvP servers if thats what you want- just make an alt and go for it. That way you get to PvP, I get PvE, and both options are upheld. Why provide pure PvP as an option and not pure PvE? If people want pure PvE they should also have that option within this game, without having to put up with the ridiculous juvenile 'gamer attitude' posturing of the typical PvPer (especially the ones who want to act like they are hardcore and then choose a mainly PvE server in a game...)

In fact, the main reason i am against PvP on the PvE servers is that i want to play a game away from that community. I hate the PvP attitude in general... Not saying all PvPers are like it, but I am talking about the general culture that PvP brings into a community. If this game starts to talk about contaminating the PvE servers with PvP, no matter how 'optional', I will just stick with FFXIV personally.

I do underline though that this is just my view, and I know it's pretty a unfashionable one on forums across the net where the term 'forum PvP' is now common and trolling/ arguing is the overriding culture and the vast majority of players that cba with hostile and aggressive environments dont even post. They never get heard and are more or less invisible., but this is not to say that dont exist in big numbers. The PvPers are setting the vocal agenda at this time, and thats a shame because it stops many other social gamers from even using the boards.

All I am saying is that the pure PvE player base is a sleeping giant that few games are serving right now, mainly due to the fashionable but false view shown in the quote, and it would be a shame if Rift didnt tap into that. Have clear and seperate PvP and PvE servers and you can selll to two seperate markets.

Mix them up and many will just say no and move on.

Choice is good

[Vesavius]

But i have been around the block a bit and have met some equally immature pure PVE'rs as well.

I agree, me too, but it's a question of concentration...

The PvP culture, just by it's nature, attracts vastly more ******s then PvE culture in my experience.

[Vesavius]

The more I think about it. I don't believe its the fact of PVP is what's going get the pure pvers. I think for the complaints I've read, its the supposedly "immatures" that PVP brings. This is just copying an arguement from when VG was battling the whole "bring PVP to PVE (which mind you I supported). I believe the same arguement will be presented here. Now do I classify all PVP folks as immature? Not at all, I think its more of a 'fear" than anything that people believe the chat channels will get filled with the e-peen talk. I dunno. That's the arguement I know will be presented here as to why I just say, to save the troubles. Make the 3 servers so everyone can be happy.

it will get brought, I guess, because it's valid ;)

3 servers would be fine... one hardcore PvP, one hardcore PvE, one for the guys that want to be badass PK but can't quite handle it...

Joke!

[Sofaism]

Last MMO I played was DarkFall Online, they got somethings right and some wrong... but...

Open PVP, sandbox... is what I want.

Killing your own race or faction gets you hated and outcast from those cities. It's fun to get jumped or jump someone and set up traps for them. You will be relatively safe in NPC cities with guard towers.

[Durnkrag]

Last MMO I played was DarkFall Online, they got somethings right and some wrong... but...

Open PVP, sandbox... is what I want.

Killing your own race or faction gets you hated and outcast from those cities. It's fun to get jumped or jump someone and set up traps for them. You will be relatively safe in NPC cities with guard towers.

If you want an open pvp gank fest, it's highly unlikely this will be the game for you, there are other titles out there that satifsy your urge for pvp anytime anyplace anywhere.

Check out Mortal online and Xsyon. Yes they are low budget games but that goes with looking for a niche game.

[Vesavius]

Last MMO I played was DarkFall Online, they got somethings right and some wrong... but...

Open PVP, sandbox... is what I want.

Killing your own race or faction gets you hated and outcast from those cities. It's fun to get jumped or jump someone and set up traps for them. You will be relatively safe in NPC cities with guard towers.

If thats what you want why arnt you supporting those games that offer that by playing them?

I am sure you have your reasons, but I would be interested in hearing them.

[Zodiaz]

I have played a few MMO's in my time, PvP has always been the best part of them. Lets face it, you can only slay dragons so many times before you get tired of it. In PvP it is unique based upon the players playstyle and skill. The best expierence I have had in the world of PvP has been DAoC and WAR. The open world(Frontiers) objective based PvP was awesome. There was also roaming PvP too, 8v8's if you used to play DAoC. Fighting for keeps while they are being defended was always a great time. I hope they implement a STRONG PvP section into the game. I dont mind slaying dragons, I just prefer to slay players!

One part of WoW I have grown to love has been Arenas. Hopefully Rift can get it right thou. The biggest problem with wow is Class Imbalance. So the W-L ratio is more affected by composition rather then skill. The whole point of arena is having 2 teams enter and the better more skilled team come out the victor. ..not the team that knows how to apply there face to the keyboard. It has been mentioned earlier thou that some players are truly carebears, you need to make a PvE option that allows them the option to PvP but the main part of the server is to PvE safely allowing the them to quest and level with the only threat truly being hobgoblins and unicorns

On the flip side, they should make an all PvP based server. There are so many ways to go about it. Create something similiar to Frontiers, where you have to zone in to be pvp flagged. Also dont allow the opposing faction to enter your factions homeland. Or allow everything to be accesible except for major cities and have open world PvP. Just some ideas.

[Pazuzu]

Keep the PVP and PVE content segregated please. They generally target two seperate gamer demopgrahics with only moderate bleed over.

[Apoth]

WoW is hugley popular for many reasons, it's just an assumption that it has anything to do with PvP for many. In fact, many many people play the game and never PvP at all.... They are just there because it's mainstream popular, their friends play, they are invested in their PvE characters, and because it's mainstream popular. What you have here is a misconception based on the false idea that just because a game is popular that has PvP it is popular BECAUSE it has PvP.

read my post again, i said one of the reasons WoW is popular is because it embraces many different playstyles. not the sole reason

This idea of being 'behind the times' is nonsense as well imo. Offering pure PvE as a playstyle choice isnt 'behind the times' in any way. Why would it be? it's just catering to another market that at this time is screaming out for a company that will sell them the game they want.

yes a "pure" PVE game IS behind the times, would say most of the games coming out are offering some sort of PVP on PVE servers. hell even EQ2 woke up and is now offering BG PVP from PVE servers. funny how the same nonsense being said here was said by the EQ2 community. "no one will play it" "we are here to PVE if we wanted to PVP we would join a PVP server." know what happened? they had to take the server down many times because of how many people were trying to access it.

The game will obviously offer PvP on the PvP servers if thats what you want- just make an alt and go for it.

already explained this please read the thread before responding.

Choice is good

so Choice is good but only if it caters to your playstyle ... gotcha!

[Apoth]

Keep the PVP and PVE content segregated please. They generally target two seperate gamer demopgrahics with only moderate bleed over.

ignorance is bliss, there are a lot more casual PVPers than just a "moderate bleed over".

[Vesavius]

read my post again, i said one of the reasons WoW is popular is because it embraces many different playstyles. not the sole reason

Which you included PvP as one of, seeming to insinuate that it was popular because of PvP being popular.

If you didnt mean allowing PvP on PvE servers was the reason it was so big, then I apologise, because I agree.

yes a "pure" PVE game IS behind the times, would say most of the games coming out are offering some sort of PVP on PVE servers.

I can just repeat that this isnt a question of 'modern' versus 'old'

PvE and PvP are just different playstyles, and that has nothing to do with the 'times'. A PvP game isnt any more modern then a PvE game... it's just silly to suggest that tbh. They are just different. I am sure Square Enix consider FFXIV to be a very 'modern' MMORPG.

Your single argument for PvP being modern is that lots of games have it, which is kind of weak.

Anyhow, Rift WILL have it on PvP servers even if what I argue for happened, so it's all pretty redundent. Or are you actually saying that having pure PvE servers in Rift makes it 'behind the times'?

If so, thats, imo, just a bizarre statement.

hell even EQ2 woke up and is now offering BG PVP from PVE servers. funny how the same nonsense being said here was said by the EQ2 community. "no one will play it" "we are here to PVE if we wanted to PVP we would join a PVP server." know what happened? they had to take the server down many times because of how many people were trying to access it.

Well, and I mean this honestly, you don't know how many people SOE set the system up to handle at once do you? This could easily say as much about their infrastructure as the demand, but i guess people percive it as their own agenda demands.

Unless you can actually link hard numbers here, this dosent impress me or convince me.

so Choice is good but only if it caters to your playstyle ... gotcha!

No.

Like I said already, having a PvE AND a PvP server caters for everyone, having PvP on all servers as you suggest dosent. With this in mind, how does what you say here even make sense? How am I demanding everyone plays my way if there has been confirmed PvP servers already? I even agreed a few posts down that 3 servers would be ideal. saying this just comes across as a little petty tbh.

If you take the time to reread whats there, you will maybe see what you argue for removes choice, what i suggest gives it. Surely that must be clear to you?

And please, there is no need for the snide tone in the way you respond. I am happy to debate this with you, but I have no interest in a snarky argument.

[Pazuzu]

ignorance is bliss, there are a lot more casual PVPers than just a "moderate bleed over".

Yep, thats what things like Battlegrounds are for.

[Apoth]

Which you included PvP as one of, seeming to insinuate that it was popular because of PvP being popular.

If you didnt mean allowing PvP on PvE servers was the reason it was so big, then I apologise, because I agree.

popular because they offer something for every playstyle.

I can just repeat that this isnt a question of 'modern' versus 'old'

PvE and PvP are just different playstyles, and that has nothing to do with the 'times'. A PvP game isnt any more modern then a PvE game... it's just silly to suggest that tbh. They are just different. I am sure Square Enix consider FFXIV to be a very 'modern' MMORPG.

it has everything to do with the times, most games now are trying to offer something for every playstyle. most games now are offering consensual PVP on regular servers. I can name about 10 different games out or coming out that has or will offer PVP on regular servers. so FFXIV IS behind the times or going for more of a niche audience if they keep on the path they are headed.

Well, and I mean this honestly, you don't know how many people SOE set the system up to handle at once do you? This could easily say as much about their infrastructure as the demand,

but i guess people percive it as their own agenda demands.

hehe hello pot!

Unless you can actually link hard numbers here, this dosent impress me or convince me.

you can read the developers own statements ... maybe that will impress you.

Like I said already, having a PvE AND a PvP server caters for everyone, having PvP on all servers as you suggest dosent. With this in mind, how does what you say here even make sense?

how can it not, if you offer

consensual PVP
group PVE
solo PVE
Raid PVE
crafting

on one server how is that "less" than offering a pure PVE server with no consensual PVP? you take completely away a choice so no it doesn't cater to all.


(reposted in a nicer more politically correct manner)