Multi-boxing = botting yet Trion turn a blind eye

[Phreakuency]

Other MMOs let you automate as long as you're at the computer.

Recently this one doesn't. That's the issue he's bringing up.

Thank you.

For the record, I have played a number of other MMO's and am well aware of their multi-boxing policies.

The point is, Trion are trying to be different here and they can't simply say, other MMO's do it so we will too, when they've been so publicly against automation recently.

Let's look at the way they've rolled back toons, placed bans and even removed plat from players fish botting. It's an unfair advantage so action was taken.

If one person is pressing buttons for one character yet software mimics those actions across another four characters, say while fishing, he is also gaining an unfair advantage in making 5 times the profit he should be for that one action.

It's not rocket science, of course Trion looks the other way when people are paying for legit extra accounts but there's a huge difference to playing an account on it's own and playing an account and having 4 others play automatically.

[Machiko_Naguchi]

I wish people would learn more before they go on rants.

Stop assuming that the person multiboxing is pushing ONE key and it is going to multiple toons at the same time. They tend to push one key for one toon and swtich between the toons VERY rapidly.

This.

The wife and I have side by side computers in our office and we both play Rift. May times I log in here account and use her character just to "mule" items between 2 of my characters on my same account (such as when I am crafting items on my Outfitter, then runebreaking them on my other character) and so I don't have to pay 2587 plats in Mailbox fees.

Other times I use her computer and account, and do a /follow command with her character and drag her character in tow behind mine and use her keyboard and monitor and mash the '1' key on both of our machines, so why is that wrong?

God gave me more than 1 finger, and Trion gave me the the /follow command and allows you to make in game macro's so you can combine 2 to 30 spells/actions into one single key press. IF Trion didn't want that to happen, they can EASILY disable the /follow command and remove the /macro command as well.

Sometimes I even fire up both accounts on my computer, which is powerful enough to still get 40fps+ and 15fps+ on each account in windowed mode, with my account on my 27" IPS monitor and the wife's account on my 24" monitor. They are both using the same keyboard and mouse, and only 1 is active at a time.

When I have the mouse focus in one account, the other account can still "auto attack", which is a perfectly acceptable method of attack, since Trion made it that way. If Trion didn't want that to happen, they can EASILY stop the "auto attack" feature AND/OR make their game client able to load 2 instances of the game on the same machine at the same time.



So no, I don't see EITHER of these methods as "cheating", be it "dual boxing" or "single boxing with dual accounts" ... because Trion ALLOWS it to happen without using ANY 3rd party software at all.

[Sumelar]

-Seen this in Conquest: Imagine having not (1) big CD dropped on you simultaneously, but (5!)

Because, as we all know, 5 separate people ganging up on you in pvp never happens, and is indeed against the rules.

In case you missed the sarcasm (given what you're complaining about, a very real possibility) it doesn't matter how many people are sitting behind the screens. You're looking at it as one player vs one player, and think the odds should be even. It's one character vs 5 characters. You will not win. How many people are sitting behind those keyboards is utterly pointless. You won't win against 5 players at once, and you won't win against 1 player controlling 5 characters. Deal with it.

[TheGrinnz]

Multi-boxing = automation

[Phreakuency]

I wish people would learn more before they go on rants.

Stop assuming that the person multiboxing is pushing ONE key and it is going to multiple toons at the same time. They tend to push one key for one toon and swtich between the toons VERY rapidly.

.

The type of player in question is the one with 5 of the same class. Where one button DOES control all 5 at once.

[Jool]

/smiles and chuckles as I shake my head...

While I don't approve of multiboxing, your complaints really don't say anything other than you don't like to be outnumbered. Likewise, you speak as if muliboxing is commonplace, when that's just not the case.

I like this one too :

I wish people would learn more before they go on rants.

Stop assuming that the person multiboxing is pushing ONE key and it is going to multiple toons at the same time. They tend to push one key for one toon and swtich between the toons VERY rapidly.

I very much look forward to reading the comments from your other 3 accounts too...

Ba

Zin

Ga!

[Auction]

I wish people would learn more before they go on rants.

Stop assuming that the person multiboxing is pushing ONE key and it is going to multiple toons at the same time. They tend to push one key for one toon and swtich between the toons VERY rapidly.

Personally, I found multiboxing to be intriguing and spent some time talking to a guy who multiboxes 5 toons. He explained that he runs dungeons with his 5 toons. He has a tank, healer, dps, etc. He explained how he has to switch off the tank to the healer to get heals off. After he explained that to me, I realized his game is much different than mine and I appreciate the difficulty he has in doing that.

I'd suggest people lookup multiboxing, see what those guys go through and you might change your tone.

You are so misinformed.

I multiboxed in WOW. I 5manned heroic WOTLK content and was the "Spyce Girls" including all 5 spyce girls: scaryspyce, poshspyce, gingerspyce, babyspyce, sportyspyce. All 5 were paladins so I had 3x melee DPS pallies, a tank, and a heals. I also developped a method in which I was able to use my num-keys to move my tank, and then WASD to move my healer... and "ping-ponging" my melee DPS 3som back and forth between my tank and my healer.

This was all accomplished with an intricate and well thought out set of macros and using the software determining what key press of the keyboard would be "passed on" to which client.

ALL of which was done on 1 keyboard.

ALL of which was ONLY doable using 3rd party software (keyclone... you can use isboxer... and other types also).

I used 2 computers... Rift is way more intensive so in Rift usually these players are using 3 computers.

These players are NOT "rapidly switching" from 1 client to another... I had to chortle back my laugh as I was drinking some coffee on that comment... you ALMOST owed me a new keyboard from the spew of coffee that nearly erupted from the guffaw I had to suppress. Whomever was saying they did that was lying to you, period.

A very basic example for you of the keypress and macro:

MAIN
keyboard 1: cast skill 1, cast skill 2, cast skill 3
keyboard 2: cast AOE damage 1, cast AOE damage 2

SLAVES
keyboard 1: /follow MAIN, /assist MAIN, Cast skill 1, Cast skill 2, Cast skill 3, Cast skill, 4
keyboard 2: /follow MAIN, /assist MAIN, cast AOE damage 1, cast AOE damage 2

SLAVE HEALER
Keyboard 1: blank slot (so doesn't do anything when you press 1)
Keyboard F1: Cast AOE Heal
Keyboard F2: /target MAIN Cast big heal cooldown 1, Cast big heal 2



This is just some extremely basic, but workable layout.

You can set up so then you press "-" your slaves follow 1 character (healer) and then "+" your slaves follow 2nd character (main)... and supress all other movement key presses to each client... for example WASD does NOT pass on to all clients only the main client... and num-keys 8462 is movemend for your Healer but does NOT pass on to any other clients.


Does this seem complex and scripted enough yet for you? You still want to tell me that this isn't cheating and that somehow this 1 player is thinking for each client and reacting with his own thought and delays for each character?

[TheGrinnz]

No matter which way you slice it: the multiboxer is using 3rd party software to take the input of 1 device, and send that 1 keystroke to 4 other clients.

Often those clients are on OTHER MACHINES... where someone is not even physically connecting to the machine with a keyboard!!

The multiboxer is NOT sitting there manually pressing keys on 5 keyboards.


There is 1 reason alone that allows this obvious double standard to exist: money. TRION and any other company that holds this same double standard for 3rd party software usage should be ashamed of themselves. It's completely deplorable that you would hold 1 person accountable for 3rd party software usage and yet only because someone pays more that they get to ignore the same ruleset.

Don't give me bogus excuses. I would hold TRION in a much higher esteem if they did come out and say "You know what guys? You're right. We DO get more money from these cats, and that's exactly why we let them multibox." But instead it's left as this very real double standard.

People often use software which is not a part of rift to also cause keypresses on their peripheral (sometimes known as a "keyboard") to send a signal to Rift. Then they have an automated system that allows Rift to form packets of the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) over the Internet Protocol (IP). Furthermore it automates the task of sending the electrical signals across the ethernet cables corresponding to the data bits in the packet! So you see friend, automation is much more rampant than you realize.

[Fiftyish]

I wish people would learn more before they go on rants.

Stop assuming that the person multiboxing is pushing ONE key and it is going to multiple toons at the same time. They tend to push one key for one toon and swtich between the toons VERY rapidly.

Personally, I found multiboxing to be intriguing and spent some time talking to a guy who multiboxes 5 toons. He explained that he runs dungeons with his 5 toons. He has a tank, healer, dps, etc. He explained how he has to switch off the tank to the healer to get heals off. After he explained that to me, I realized his game is much different than mine and I appreciate the difficulty he has in doing that.

I'd suggest people lookup multiboxing, see what those guys go through and you might change your tone.

If I had 5 computers with 5 accounts avaliable to play Rift at the same time I'd probably just invite 4 friends over and we could have some fun. But unfortunately that would get me banned for allowing someone else to play my account.

[Auction]

People often use software which is not a part of rift to also cause keypresses on their peripheral (sometimes known as a "keyboard") to send a signal to Rift. Then they have an automated system that allows Rift to form packets of the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) over the Internet Protocol (IP). Furthermore it automates the task of sending the electrical signals across the ethernet cables corresponding to the data bits in the packet! So you see friend, automation is much more rampant than you realize.

Go ahead and respond to my above example.


I'll wait. "friend"

[Daayou]

I also developped a method in which I was able to use my num-keys to move my tank, and then WASD to move my healer... and "ping-ponging" my melee DPS 3som back and forth between my tank and my healer.

And this proves the point. You are ping-ponging between the toons. You are NOT hitting your WASD to move your tank and healer at the same time. You are using WASD and NumPad. So that is ONE key, ONE toon.

And how am I misinformed and owing you a keyboard?

Yes, someone CAN have five clerics, all keymapped the same and clone ONE key press to go to the other toons and it do something. I have not stated they can not. However, out of all of Rift's population, if there are more than 50 multi-boxers I would be amazed. The ones that I have seen (during my /played of 230 days) have either been those that I talked about before or gold farmers. However most of the gold farmers run scripts and do not multibox (except for the recent fishing scenario.)

[TheGrinnz]

Go ahead and respond to my above example.


I'll wait. "friend"

What's the problem exactly? In PvP there should be a similar number of characters on each side, the multiboxer is automatically more coordinated but also less able to react to anything since all five characters must either be controlled independently or in tandem. Any properly formed PvP team would do much better.

If you're not talking about PvP then I'm not even sure what the issue is.

My point, in case you missed it, was that automation of the sort employed for multi-boxing is not the same automation employed by botting (i.e. scripting).

[Auction]

And this proves the point. You are ping-ponging between the toons. You are NOT hitting your WASD to move your tank and healer at the same time. You are using WASD and NumPad. So that is ONE key, ONE toon.

And how am I misinformed and owing you a keyboard?

Yes, someone CAN have five clerics, all keymapped the same and clone ONE key press to go to the other toons and it do something. I have not stated they can not. However, out of all of Rift's population, if there are more than 50 multi-boxers I would be amazed. The ones that I have seen (during my /played of 230 days) have either been those that I talked about before or gold farmers. However most of the gold farmers run scripts and do not multibox (except for the recent fishing scenario.)

For making the off the wall statement that multiboxers are rapidly switching between their clients... rofl... like you honestly believed the guy was clicking through all his clients.

Like come on dude.

My statement about multiboxing is that the person is using 3rd party software to complete tasks... AND... that multiboxing rift is so CPU/GPU intensive that anyone 5xboxing is using 2 if not 3 machines... they could have a computer room much like my own where there is the main computer with 2x monitors... and then another machine behind and across the room... that the ONLY physical input is the person typing in their password and turning on keyclone or some other 3rd party connecting software..... there isn't even a person sitting there in front of the station monitoring the game dude.... the seat there is vacant... and yet: omg 2-3 clients are fully functioning and working.

To make it even more extreme... that same station could be in the room next door... maybe it's some room-mate who is at work... but gave permission to use their computer for the day... and guess what: same situation... the boxer types in the password, loads up keyclone... and BOOOYAAAA... back to the main computer desk to play.

The point is: there's no one even physically at the computer for several of the clients that are now fully functioning and making decisions (based on a defined macro system) all from ONE physical input.

How? 3rd party software.

That's all I'm saying. You want to argue semantics: be my guest. Money talks. TRION is hypocritical ONLY because they make money from this activity. That's it - that's all. Nothing you can possibly say will sway me here. I've personally done 5boxing... and I personally know what they do EXACTLY... and I personally know that there are many MMOs out there who explicitly dis-allow multiboxing in their games. (Mostly free to play MMOs - but there are a couple mainstream MMOs who have integrity and not allow this cheating in it.)

[TheGrinnz]

For making the off the wall statement that multiboxers are rapidly switching between their clients... rofl... like you honestly believed the guy was clicking through all his clients.

Like come on dude.

My statement about multiboxing is that the person is using 3rd party software to complete tasks... AND... that multiboxing rift is so CPU/GPU intensive that anyone 5xboxing is using 2 if not 3 machines... they could have a computer room much like my own where there is the main computer with 2x monitors... and then another machine behind and across the room... that the ONLY physical input is the person typing in their password and turning on keyclone or some other 3rd party connecting software..... there isn't even a person sitting there in front of the station monitoring the game dude.... the seat there is vacant... and yet: omg 2-3 clients are fully functioning and working.

To make it even more extreme... that same station could be in the room next door... maybe it's some room-mate who is at work... but gave permission to use their computer for the day... and guess what: same situation... the boxer types in the password, loads up keyclone... and BOOOYAAAA... back to the main computer desk to play.

The point is: there's no one even physically at the computer for several of the clients that are now fully functioning and making decisions (based on a defined macro system) all from ONE physical input.

How? 3rd party software.

That's all I'm saying. You want to argue semantics: be my guest. Money talks. TRION is hypocritical ONLY because they make money from this activity. That's it - that's all. Nothing you can possibly say will sway me here. I've personally done 5boxing... and I personally know what they do EXACTLY... and I personally know that there are many MMOs out there who explicitly dis-allow multiboxing in their games. (Mostly free to play MMOs - but there are a couple mainstream MMOs who have integrity and not allow this cheating in it.)

So by your logic someone using VNC to play rift on a remote host is "cheating" somehow? It's third party software, they aren't physically at that computer. But they have full input to the computer.

[Elrar]

Our primary concern is automation, plenty of players multibox using complex setups but rarely are they fully automated.

If you're in attendance, actively pressing keys and activating abilities this would not fall under the level of automation that we would consider botting.

Are some multi-boxers automated? I wouldn't doubt it, but they're not mutually inclusive and any action taken by us would be due to the automation of the actions, not the act of multi-boxing itself.

Hope that clarifies