Thinking through xp lock change... disaster for RIFT?

[Thorrand]

My thoughts from personal experience.

I levelled my cleric to 50 and did normals, experts, t1 raids and now I am in t2 raids. I had fun gearing up and all that but if I had to go through it all again on another character I would lose interest. I can't put that much time into a new char to get them ready for raiding/end game PVP. Importantly being my first character I didn't have the money to buy high end gear - I needed mounts etc.

I rolled a rogue alt. Decided to level up through PVP and dungeons. Dungeon progression is slow and monotonous - especially after the grind on the cleric. Turned to WF's for PvP and ran into the twink wall. The result is I stopped playing my rogue and went back to achi hunting on my Cleric.

I could run through all the open world and questing content on my rogue getting a different play experience - but that just doesn't have the same appeal - and I really to make a big try to get into PvP.

So Crafting:
When levelling my armorsmith cleric must of the stuff I could make was a significant upgrade to what I was wearing. So i made my own stuff rather than buy from AH.

I picked different crafting skills on my rogue to get two production skills - hey i have a money source with my lvl 50. The skills don't compliment a leather wearer at all. I can grab some PvP gear, some dunegeon rewards and where possible buy stuff off the AH to keep him up to date.

Most importantly though when that rogue reaches lvl 50 through PvP and I want to go raiding with him I can buy all the relevant gear off the AH.

The only thing preventing me from buying stuff on the AH is xp lock - I don't want to compete with level locked twinks in terms of gear. The only thing preventing me buying end game raiding gear is levelling up my toon, which is low level PvP, which is xp lock.

The low level economy and the 50 economy would improve by removing xp lock.

I'm trying to understand this. So you have an alt rogue with professions that don't benefit it at all so you're trying to buy gear off the AH but it's too expensive? I got a warrior up to level 35 and for the majority of that there was virtually nothing for low to mid levels. The stuff I did find was maybe 1 plat at most for blue 2 handers.

What I did to gear up and battle my way through wf's is to visit the rare planar vendor every 5 levels. Each one has one epic and one blue quality piece for your level and the planarite cost is negliigible since you already have a 50. If you need sourcestones you can do it on your main and send vouchers to your alt. I had a full source engine at level 5 filled with lessers that cost less than 50 planarite apiece.

The best thing to do though if you don't want to hit up the rare planar goods guy every five levels then ask your guild to craft something for you. That is what they are for, for like minded people to play together and help each other when needed.

[Kadeth]

When you Mentor, assuming it goes live with the same mechanics as it has now on the PTS You keep your gear, abilities and skills. Stats are all reduced so, you do about the same damage as if you were actually the level you mentored down to be. (Hence we cannot enter a War front or Conquest while mentored.) IF doing an event or dungeon you get level 50 rewards but, if you just grind for mats or whatever, you get the normal lower level drops and, even the 50 rewards are not as much as if we did not mentor and stayed in the zones that require a level 50 player. Yes, for the classes that have pets, the pets level down with us.

It isn't for us to farm ISS or PA, it's so we can help and play alongside lower level friends and guild mates and, so we can gain a little something for helping to keep the lower level areas alive and active. Once Mentoring goes live, LFG should be less of a wait at lower levels because 50's can mentor and join the groups to get the dungeon or event done.

I don't see how it will harm the economy, it isn't as if all drops suddenly become all level 50 items or it suddenly takes a skill of 300 to make burlap shoes. All it does reward wise is give a mentored 50 a token condolence prize as a bit of an incentive to mentor into a lower level group that need someone in that role. If we are mentoring, it's not for the personal gain, it's because we want to help lower level players, play with friends and/or we simply want a break form level 50 content for a bit.

[Elenoa]

you're trying to buy gear off the AH but it's too expensive?

At no point did I mention the cost of the items.

The only reason to need to buy gear from the AH was to compete with overgeared twinks. Each new level bracket you are having to go the AH to buy more gear just to compete. Whereas if people were progressing through the level brackets as they levelled then the requirement to constantly purchase gear would be removed. Instead you can get a good amount of upgrades from dungeons, only a finite amount, and some from PvP gear, again only certain slots, and then buy the rest from the AH. Doing it this way makes the levelling experience more rewarding - why else run the normal dungeons if not for the drops from the bosses etc.

If you have to buy gear for in game currency just to be able to compete in the level bracket then you may as well buy a premade character and go down that route.

[Thorrand]

I sympathize with this view, but I think it is naive. Crafting and the economy will take very large hits without xp lock. Watch. I'm not sure what subset of the loot on rift mobile relates to crafting because I can't get it to work on my desktop, but I suspect that will take a hit too.

You do realize that except for very rare cases, crafted gear sucks for twinks don't you? The only thing I can see this effecting is the selling of item consumables such as whetstones, armor plating, some rift consumables, cushioned insoles, the mount speed increase etc. But the people who use them more than likely can make them for themselves or has a guildy who will. Do you think once level lock came into play people rushed to the ah to twink in crafted greens? Most of it comes from dungeon runs, rare planar goods vendors, and pvp vendors. That is why level lock had virtually no effect on the economy and once its gone it will continue not affecting the economy.

Are you saying people will stop doing the crafting scratcheron the mobile app because of this? Everyone I. Know of already go for the artifact one with a very slim few doing the planarite scratcher. Even if it was the case, what would it matter if less people did it? is that a legitimate argument to keep letting the twinks turn new players off pvp, some even the entire game. You are grasping at straws now as to why it would be a bad thing. It won't.

[Tufelhunden]

. . . The rewards for us as a mentored low level are not as big as if we were running level 50 zones and events but, we can be there to fill in space and help lower level friends and guild mates. So when it goes live, if you need that last party member to get into something, ask a 50 if they are willing to mentor and join you

Thank you, that was my concern. I am glad to hear the rewards are not as great but that I can still help guild memebers/friends get some XP and not destroy the XP they get.

[Morvick]

I hope all the great points in here have finally shown the OP that they don't need to worry.
Or at least, convinced them to go back and rethink their conclusions. A lot.

OP, a question; did you join Rift before or after XP Lock was implemented?
I can't really understand your concerns if it's the former; if you joined later, well, maybe you just didn't see how well things were running before the "miracle" of twinking.

[Thorrand]

At no point did I mention the cost of the items.

The only reason to need to buy gear from the AH was to compete with overgeared twinks. Each new level bracket you are having to go the AH to buy more gear just to compete. Whereas if people were progressing through the level brackets as they levelled then the requirement to constantly purchase gear would be removed. Instead you can get a good amount of upgrades from dungeons, only a finite amount, and some from PvP gear, again only certain slots, and then buy the rest from the AH. Doing it this way makes the levelling experience more rewarding - why else run the normal dungeons if not for the drops from the bosses etc.

If you have to buy gear for in game currency just to be able to compete in the level bracket then you may as well buy a premade character and go down that route.

No you did not. You stated that xp lock prevented you from buying gear off of the AH so I came to the logical conclusion that you were talking about some kind of overly inflated price. You didn't say how it was preventing you from using it. I never said you had to buy the rare planar goods stuff, only that the option was there and it is significantly better than at level crafted goods. If you choose not to get it then it is your choice.

I apologise. I thought your post was the ops

[Thorrand]

At no point did I mention the cost of the items.

The only reason to need to buy gear from the AH was to compete with overgeared twinks. Each new level bracket you are having to go the AH to buy more gear just to compete. Whereas if people were progressing through the level brackets as they levelled then the requirement to constantly purchase gear would be removed. Instead you can get a good amount of upgrades from dungeons, only a finite amount, and some from PvP gear, again only certain slots, and then buy the rest from the AH. Doing it this way makes the levelling experience more rewarding - why else run the normal dungeons if not for the drops from the bosses etc.

If you have to buy gear for in game currency just to be able to compete in the level bracket then you may as well buy a premade character and go down that route.

Even with the xp lock being removed there will still be people in the wf's geared to the teeth. Probably not to the point it is now but certainly not much better. what else are we supposed to do with all that plat, planarite, and sourcestones gathering dust? If you think that removing xp lock means you will be successful in greens from 10 levels past then you obviously never did wf's pre xp lock.

If you want to pvp, either gear up better or get used to sitting in the graveyard waiting for the res to pop.

[Kantazo]

Even with the xp lock being removed there will still be people in the wf's geared to the teeth. Probably not to the point it is now but certainly not much better. what else are we supposed to do with all that plat, planarite, and sourcestones gathering dust? If you think that removing xp lock means you will be successful in greens from 10 levels past then you obviously never did wf's pre xp lock.

If you want to pvp, either gear up better or get used to sitting in the graveyard waiting for the res to pop.

And people like you are the ones that make the exp lock removed a necessity, you sound like one of those e-peens, egotistic ganker that makes many new players quit the game

[mo0trix]

And people like you are the ones that make the exp lock removed a necessity, you sound like one of those e-peens, egotistic ganker that makes many new players quit the game

Citation of an actual player quitting because of twinking please.


There is a lot fo people complaining about it, a lot of people campaigning for it... but has twinking negatively impacted the population of rift? I personally don't think it has... if someone ever really did quit over twinking, they were never going to stick around for long in this game anyways.

I'll always be an advocate for xp locking whether people use it to twink or not. Doing lower level warfronts whilst xp locked is fun because you don't have to continually move into new brackets where you just get your arse handed to you (especially when you hit 50). This encourages you to pvp more and once you have done enough pvp to get some decent gear for level 50 pvp, you can then level up whenever you like and not be afraid of the big bad rank 40s.

[Thorrand]

And people like you are the ones that make the exp lock removed a necessity, you sound like one of those e-peens, egotistic ganker that makes many new players quit the game

yeah that's me with my big bad r10 cleric and r12 rogue and my level 35 with a lifetime total favor of 15k (I wanted the mount). I've never locked my xp nor will I ever. I'm about as anti-twink as one can get. I just don't find it fun to spend most of my wf's dead, so i gear up so it doesn't happen as often. I am also not an elitist, I was just telling you that even when xp lock is gone it's not all of a sudden going to be a field of players healing each other with care-bear stares. If you put 0 effort into bettering yourself, you will get rolled. pre and post xp lock.

[Kantazo]

Your statement about get better gear or get used to be dead is a big turn off for new players, also (not you but to the other poster) no moving to higher levels because you get your arse kicked shows that you are a coward ganker, you want to remain at 39 lev lock so you can gank everyone who is low 30 and destroy their interest in PVP, if you are such a "macho" player why dont you move to the next tear so you willl experience what new players are experiencing under your ABUSE.

[Ancem]

I started a thread in PVP here that didnt really get to the center of my unease with the proposed change, so I thought I would try again, with a more analytic cast.
.

This isn't an analysis of anything, you don't have any data upon which to base your opinions. This is simply rampant speculation you insist is fact.

As TRS pointed out, twinks don't have any real effect on the auction house or crafting economy. Crafting is so easy that one can create an alt and craft basic gear for a main until reaching 50 and buying advanced gear and/or grinding for marks/ss/favor. Or you can join a guild and someone there will likely be willing to craft the gear for you. I've been playing this game since day 1 and it's never been possible to support a character while leveling or at 50 by selling sub-50 crafted gear.

As for gameplay and wfs, XP lock caused many more problems than it solved, mostly because it was abused by the least desirable subset of MMO gamers in order to grief the most desirable group of gamers. If the griefers are having fun at the expense of other players, the population dwindles until the griefers run out of victims and leave. Then the game is dead and neary unrecoverable. This has already happened in other games, and most players recognized this immediately.

Trion made a mistake, collected data about the issue, and responded to legitimate complaints by correcting the mistake and trying something new. If it's not too late, they should regain some of the players lost and the twink players will have to bite the bullet and advance to the next bracket eventually, where they will find it harder to grief other players.

[Thorrand]

Your statement about get better gear or get used to be dead is a big turn off for new players,

I'm not a big fan of it either but it is what it is. I think at this point in MMO's it's to be expected with how long rift has been out. People that are max level working on alts have more resources than a brand new player and will therefore always have an advantage, and to be perfectly honest if they come to rift for pvp they're doing it wrong. it's something to do in-between raids and that's about it. There are other games out there with much better PvP, in rift it's a time killer at best

[Bliter]

Someone may have said it already but here goes, in EQ2 the xp lock only worked for pve content, any pvp would level you. Twinking for pve I like, but for pvp, Trion needs to add pvp gear for 10-49 that's easy to get or force pvp xp. The reasons are obvious, plat buyers and old hands at Rift will destroy the new to Rift.
Get rid of pvp xp lock but leave the pve lock. If u pvp, u level.

(No idea if EQ2 still does this. I quit all three accounts when Rift went live.)