[PCGamer] Rift expansion details teased with mysterious puzzle box

[Khelendross]

gear isnt real character progession though, because it isnt permanent. When you gain a level or a new skill, that is permanent. Nothing can ever take that away from you, you are permanently stronger. Gear seems like the same thing, but you can grind your *** off for a piece of gear, then happen to get a drop the next day thats better than what you worked so hard to get. Every ounce of work gone into getting a piece of gear is erased the second a new piece is a gotten. With levels and PA, its permanent, PA would work, if they made it meaningful which it currently isnt. Its only for the high end number crunchers, its fairly useless to casuals and anyone not on Laethys.

This notion that the purpose of levels is for a reset is absolutely idiotic, thats not the way things worked back 'in the day'. One would hope Trion would do things the right way.

Its not back in the day anymore. If Trion wants to be successful they have to understand that, and I am sure they do. This isn't DAOC.

But to clarify let me spell it out for you. Gone are the days where people want nothing more than to explore. There are always explorers like myself, but the majority of players are goal and rewards oriented. So if you release 6 zones all of max level content, its not going to be anywhere near as effective for Trion. If players don't have a goal to work towards then they won't do it.

Moreover if you release zones of all level 50 content they either make the zones incredibly easy and all the raiders will faceroll through them, or they make them require raid gear, in which case thats about the easiest way to kill the game right there. Unless Trion has a way to scale players up the content (not typically a good idea). Then it won't work. And if they do that what is the incentive then for goal/rewards oriented players to even do it. Like I said though I would like to think its eventually possible to make a expansion without increasing the level cap, I'm not so sure it is.

[Majel]

This was posted on the Rift subreddit about 30 minutes ago, however I have not yet seen this posted to the forums here (yet!).

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/05/25/ri...us-puzzle-box/



I am not sure how much truth or merit this has, but it shows promise.

I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this, but if that is 'all' that's in the expansion, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. I'm sure it won't be but, it's an expansion, I expect at the very least 1 new race, because lets face it, Rift really needs it IMO, there is barely any variation currently.

Please don't get too mad with me. I just wanted more from an official expansion, if that is what it is.

[Khelendross]

Lets assume for a second that Trion is not raising the level cap. How might they make an expansion work without pissing some segment of the player base off (arguing which side is bigger is pretty sily at this point).

Here is one possible scenario. In the expansion after destroying Crucia an ancient ethian portal is discovered. This portal leads the lands beyond but only the highest ascended can enter. (Requires equivalent to a full set of Crucia epics (not relics)). Raiders who have met these can go straight in. But there is a quest that opens up a new chronicle. In the course of the completing this solo chronicle you are given gear equivalent to these Crucia epics. You can then enter the portal. This chronicle can only be done once per character. Once in the expansion area each zone has a item level requirement. There are a handful of story quests that tell the zone "story" but the majority of questing is done via Instant Adventures. As you do Instant Adventures you get reward cache's that give you gear until you meet the requirements for the next zone. And so on and so forth.

Think about this for a second. At its core how is this really any different from raising the level cap? Gear is still trivialized, you are still progressing through the zones. Its really the same thing.

If you just hand people 6 zones and say here do whatever you want, I guarantee you the expansion will fail. I've been playing MMO's since 96', I know.

If you guys really think the scenario above is really superior to raising the level cap and can explain why...then I'll definitely support such a system. But I wouldn't expect Trion to listen.

I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this, but if that is 'all' that's in the expansion, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. I'm sure it won't be but, it's an expansion, I expect at the very least 1 new race, because lets face it, Rift really needs it IMO, there is barely any variation currently.

Please don't get too mad with me. I just wanted more from an official expansion, if that is what it is.

Sorry but I gotta

6 new zones (and one would assume 6 new dungeons, IA's and such), 2 new raids, 10 new levels, cloaks, and 4 new souls isn't enough for you? Really? /facepalm

[Antigonos]

Sorry but I gotta

6 new zones (and one would assume 6 new dungeons, IA's and such), 2 new raids, 10 new levels, cloaks, and 4 new souls isn't enough for you? Really? /facepalm

next posting he will complain they dont do enough for PVP im sure

[Gray]

gear isnt real character progession though, because it isnt permanent. When you gain a level or a new skill, that is permanent. Nothing can ever take that away from you, you are permanently stronger. Gear seems like the same thing, but you can grind your *** off for a piece of gear, then happen to get a drop the next day thats better than what you worked so hard to get. Every ounce of work gone into getting a piece of gear is erased the second a new piece is a gotten. With levels and PA, its permanent, PA would work, if they made it meaningful which it currently isnt. Its only for the high end number crunchers, its fairly useless to casuals and anyone not on Laethys.

This notion that the purpose of levels is for a reset is absolutely idiotic, thats not the way things worked back 'in the day'. One would hope Trion would do things the right way.

so when I get the skill fireball II, which will be replaced by fireball III, does that imply that fireball II is pointless? or is fireball II just a step in my character advancement and I'm progressing the whole time?
that's the same for items. or whatever you use for character advancement. you get something that makes you stronger. then you get something that makes you even stronger. you're advancing the whole time.

so how would you make PA meaningful? don't forget, meaningful for EVERY playstyle. not too good so people thing they HAVE to get it (on top on better items). not too bad that people thing they don't have to get it.

while we're at it, how did things work "back in the day"?

[Gray]

If you just hand people 6 zones and say here do whatever you want, I guarantee you the expansion will fail. I've been playing MMO's since 96', I know.

are you assuming the zones aren't tiered with different requirements? and there won't be basic questing in it?

[Gray]

I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this, but if that is 'all' that's in the expansion, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. I'm sure it won't be but, it's an expansion, I expect at the very least 1 new race, because lets face it, Rift really needs it IMO, there is barely any variation currently.

Please don't get too mad with me. I just wanted more from an official expansion, if that is what it is.

well, you have to agree, it's a very meaty package.

a new race would need to have reason in the lore to be there. where would it come from?

but maybe, if trion ever offers a character revamp via premium services, they might introduce a new race that magically starts to exist to provide an incentive to use it.



oh, and that 5 minute edit timer is still highly annoying -_-

[Khelendross]

are you assuming the zones aren't tiered with different requirements? and there won't be basic questing in it?

No, it was a hypothetical. However there is no level cap then you are implying there would have to be requirements for each zone. And as I said above, if thats the case how is it any different from raising the level cap and why should Trion go through the trouble of doing it differently just for the sake of being different?

while we're at it, how did things work "back in the day"?

I must assume the poster was referring to DAOC perhaps cause as I said I've played alot of MMO's since 96 and only two I can think of that I played didn't ever raise the level cap. One was NexusTK where you could buy stats to progress your character with exp so they had no reason to raise the level cap. And DAOC which was primarily a PVP game. They had one expansion with no level cap increase (Shrouded Isles) and what it really added was PVE raids that weren't PVP enabled. TOA the second PVE expansion added Master Levels which were essentially 9 more levels except you had to raid (on a massive scale) to get them. Subsequent expansions added instanced content (Catacombs) and revamped existing popular areas (Darkness Rising). Labryinth of the Minotaur added a new PVP/PVE dungeon area thingy which was rather cool actually.

[Maeloda]

[QUOTE=Laeris;3806446]My point is very plain and very simple. This is not WoW. If you want WoW, well... you know where that is. The thing is, Rift isn't WoW. I don't want to deal with the same nonsense that caused me to drop WoW. I quit WoW 1 day before the BC xpack as well and I'll do it here too if they do the same thing.

Like you said, I am a sandbox game player primarily. I play EVE and Mortal online but I do like Rift. If they do this, then that's that. End of story. If I wanted to play WoW, I'd unsub here and go back to my old hunter I haven't played in years. I don't even remember his name.

Edit: And if you want to get technical... vBulletin's XML handling is less than spectacular. When you quote a post with a quote in it, the code doesn't have a way to nest XML tags without a manual edit by the end user. *shrug*

and [youtube], [img] and [url] tags are just XML parent/child tags.

You should get your guild ready to leave then, as a level cap increase is at the veryyyy minimum, quite possible.

And if it is on the pipeline, only nearly every major guild threatening an unsub en-masse would make a dent in the current development process.

[Majel]

Sorry but I gotta

6 new zones (and one would assume 6 new dungeons, IA's and such), 2 new raids, 10 new levels, cloaks, and 4 new souls isn't enough for you? Really? /facepalm

Nope, not if I have to pay £20 for it no, that is not enough. Hate on me all you like.
TRION have spoiled us with their content patches, if you take your rose tinted glasses off for a second. I expect more from an official expansion, especially with how much they give us in content patches.

Everybody likes different things about MMO's, I love Rift, but I have a big problem how there is so little variation in races. So hate on me all you like, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be only one, in fact I know I'm not.

I know you guys like to shun players that don't agree with you, or have a difference of opinion from 'the masses on these forums' but hey, what's new.

[Laeris]

And if it is on the pipeline, only nearly every major guild threatening an unsub en-masse would make a dent in the current development process.

Well, keep in mind one thing. If they do this as alluded to in the article and raise the cap 10 levels... then GSB/RoS/GP/DH/HK/ID/RotP/mDD/mCR will be invalid the instant the xpack launches. Who in their right mind would grind those for rewards 10 levels out of date? It would be like L50s running normal mode Fall of Lantern Hook for nothing usable in return.

Then, if they do add a couple of raids and a few dungeons... then that effectively cuts the available raid content by 60% and makes all of your sigils/source engines, ISS grinds, faction grinds, and raid gear grinds null and void.

I like progression. I do not like progression then a reset button... now I suck. Progression. Another reset button... now I suck again... Etc etc repeat ad nauseum. I play MMOs to have fun... not to constantly be reset every year or two and be told to start over and junk all of my gear, faction runes, and essences. For me, it is not fun to grind up ISSs now as it is (I've already done over 2000 to get my 5 sigils and all of the essences needed). I've done the PvP grind and am in upper HK now. If they reset me and tell me that green and blue L51 drops will be better than my raid drops (Aka, how WoW did it) then yeah. I don't put up with that. I'll do a grind one time to get what I need. I will not do the same exact grind all over again just to get back to where I was before the expansion.

[satk]

Well, keep in mind one thing. If they do this as alluded to in the article and raise the cap 10 levels... then GSB/RoS/GP/DH/HK/ID/RotP/mDD/mCR will be invalid the instant the xpack launches. Who in their right mind would grind those for rewards 10 levels out of date? It would be like L50s running normal mode Fall of Lantern Hook for nothing usable in return.

Then, if they do add a couple of raids and a few dungeons... then that effectively cuts the available raid content by 60% and makes all of your sigils/source engines, ISS grinds, faction grinds, and raid gear grinds null and void.

I like progression. I do not like progression then a reset button... now I suck. Progression. Another reset button... now I suck again... Etc etc repeat ad nauseum. I play MMOs to have fun... not to constantly be reset every year or two and be told to start over and junk all of my gear, faction runes, and essences. For me, it is not fun to grind up ISSs now as it is (I've already done over 2000 to get my 5 sigils and all of the essences needed). I've done the PvP grind and am in upper HK now. If they reset me and tell me that green and blue L51 drops will be better than my raid drops (Aka, how WoW did it) then yeah. I don't put up with that. I'll do a grind one time to get what I need. I will not do the same exact grind all over again just to get back to where I was before the expansion.

To be honest ID can be called as a reset button(For some classes atleast)

I farm HK for 8 months and then I go into ID kill something get a epic which is better than my mark gear from HK. Same logic except in open world.

The only way trion can implement this is to Tier the new zones. ie. New zone 1,2,3 have ROS/GSB difficulty, need ROS/GSB gear to do quests. New zone 4,5,6 Have HK/ID difficulty hence have to do HK/ID to do quests in there.

This makes older content still useful... currently in EI you kinda need atlest Dungeon gear to do run around freely with out getting instant gibed :P

The new 10 lvls can be easily be balanced by creating 4 new souls that only work with points from the new 10 lvls.

And there is no such thing as green gear after normal 50 dungeons -.- and no blue gear after 50 experts and MM. We only get awesome epix :P so I expect Epic drops from new zones haha

[satk]

Also by tiering the new zone Raid content progression would also be much smoother and faster for new guilds and players.

I do 1 night in ROS/GSB get my lucky drops yay. Go to zone 1,2,3 get geared for HK do HK get lucky drops do zone 4,5 then do ID get lucky and do zone 6 and reach the final raiding teir with out the 10 month wait that we have gone thorugh.

This is dependent on RNG really you can clear all zones in 1 week to 2 months depending on the amount of gear that you get

[Laeris]

That's not the same thing. In ID, you get marks for gear and a drop every now and again. You gear up gradually.

Like what others in this thread are saying, if they apply a level increase... just like wow did with BC ( I didn't play any after so I don't know how they did it in WotLK and Cataclysm), then that means even your ID gear will be eclipsed by green trash gear by the time you reach 52 or 53. Thus, every gear slot that has anything but expansion greens is trash. Your sigil will be trash unless you think it is viable to run around with L40-42 lessers in your sigil now for ID raiding.

All that happens instantly. You log out before the big expansion release... and as soon as you log in, you might as well be naked because all of your gear you worked so hard for is total junk compared to the easy to get quest reward stuff in the starter areas of the expansion. That would happen instantly. No gradual replacement of your gear as you improve.

To add insult to injury, the hardcore player types will be maxed out in a week and will start raiding with similar geared people. The same people complaining about not being able to get into raids or that gear is too hard to get will still be saying the same thing when they catch up a month later. Therefore, the level increase... as has been shown in multiple MMOs to date, in effect does nothing but add tedium. Tedium is not content and can be avoided with proper management of existing mechanics and additions to the same without figuratively wrecking the entire previous year's content.

[Laeris]

Also by tiering the new zone Raid content progression would also be much smoother and faster for new guilds and players.

I do 1 night in ROS/GSB get my lucky drops yay. Go to zone 1,2,3 get geared for HK do HK get lucky drops do zone 4,5 then do ID get lucky and do zone 6 and reach the final raiding teir with out the 10 month wait that we have gone thorugh.

This is dependent on RNG really you can clear all zones in 1 week to 2 months depending on the amount of gear that you get

No, at a 10 level differential, you'd be able to probably 10 man HK in a Pug with half the raid AFK. Maybe you haven't seen the vids of people in WoW soloing raid dungeons because of this same reason?