Why's the sky falling over "dumbed down" content?

[Bivrington]

I am on both sides of the issue, if that makes sense.

I prefer to take down content without it being nerfed, so I can have the personal satisfaction of clearing content as it was intended to be.

On the other hand, having older content made easier is great too, because when it comes to people/guilds trying to get members geared for current content, it is a lot more attractive to be able to get quick runs done, getting full clears in one night and the gear distributed as opposed to having to spend two nights a week on old content to get ready for new content.

I do fully believe instead of it being a coded nerf, they should take a page from other games and instead of changing the bosses, put a damage done increase buff and a damage recieved decrease buff on the players that can be removed by those that want to do the content at full strength.

[mr showboat]

I am on both sides of the issue, if that makes sense.

I prefer to take down content without it being nerfed, so I can have the personal satisfaction of clearing content as it was intended to be.

On the other hand, having older content made easier is great too, because when it comes to people/guilds trying to get members geared for current content, it is a lot more attractive to be able to get quick runs done, getting full clears in one night and the gear distributed as opposed to having to spend two nights a week on old content to get ready for new content.

I do fully believe instead of it being a coded nerf, they should take a page from other games and instead of changing the bosses, put a damage done increase buff and a damage recieved decrease buff on the players that can be removed by those that want to do the content at full strength.

I'm not sure about a straight damage buff, because a lot of times unless it's a gear check/straight DPS race, the numbers aren't the issue, the mechanics are. Or if you're getting him to like <5% and running OOM or whatnot.

I get what you're saying about it though. Would be nice if there could be some kind of switch or something you could hit to keep pre/post nerf.

[Adastra]

They're trying to save their last shreds of self-esteem. If casual players can kill Akylios, what is there that's left to feel good about?

I personally don't think it's like that. It's more of those players being unable to handle the difficulty, so they either petition to get it changed or they're stuck until that said boss/content is nerfed. I think the "casual" player hate is a little misdirected. I consider a casual as one who doesn't play the game as often, but they can still be talented.

It's more of the type of person that always likes to improve themselves and is never happy with their results, always trying to get to that 100% if possible vs. the type of people that are probably indifferent, not necessarily lazy, but they just play to play.

[TheProtagonist]

Hardcore and progression raiders dislike content being nerfed because the nerfed encounters are less fun for them than the pre-nerf encounters. Hardcore and progression raiders have FUN slamming their heads into the wall for weeks on end just to kill a boss; the sense of accomplishment you get after killing that bastard is the greatest sense of accomplishment you can feel in gaming outside of esports. When content gets nerfed, these hardcore and progression raiders get upset because they now have less fun with this less-challenging content. Isn't that what gaming is about, having fun? When content is nerfed, the game is less fun for these raiders.

I love raid-wiping mechanics, they require the entire raid to be active and engaged the entire fight. If you really think about the bosses with raid wiping mechanics, none of the requirements are that unreasonable. Oracle requires one person to run out of the room occasionally, Sicaron requires a purge rotation, and many bosses require an interrupt rotation. Even Akylios, the boss with the most raid-wiping mechanics, isn't that unreasonable. Waves require you to move like three feet, apostles need to be interrupted, lashers need to be picked up ASAP, breath now has an emote, and three people need to stack for mind controls. At most, two of these mechanics are active at any one time (unless a raid is going for achievements). Encounters like Akylios are what makes Rift stand apart from other MMOs; the encounters are actually encounters instead of tank-and-spank snoozefests that even Stephen Hawking (or some other, nameless person with muscular distrophy) could complete with minimal effort. I really enjoy jumping from platform to platform while watching for mechanics. The fight engages the raid and requires everybody to be paying attention. I end up having to run all over the platforms finding and killing stingers while watching out for breath, waves, mc, etc. It is fun for me and for hardcore and progression raiders because we're active and engaged the entire fight. Even if you are not a hardcore or progression raider, sit down and think about what you would rather fight. Would you rather have a raid boss where you all spread out, stand in one place, and mash out your rotation for ten minutes, or would you rather have a boss where you're running around the whole fight, dodging mechanics, and burning the boss during the last 10% of his health? IMO, the latter sounds way more fun to me, and I feel that Trion needs to continue their trend of making bosses into encounters (think last bosses in GP and DH, Greenscale, Alsbeth, Inwar, and Akylios). This is how raiding should be, and this is how to make raiding fun.

[EDIT] Also, after watching the trailer for ID, I can tell that Maelforge is going to be one of these encounters. I am super pumped to have another one of these encounters to learn, and I'm sure Trion has an excellent encounter planned for us.

[Azreell]

I am almost always opposed to dumbing down content.... not because I am elitist but in fact just the opposite. I want everyone to be able to feel like they had achieved something, rather than it be given to them.

I am, as always, firm in my opposition to PA and that sort of thing because that sort of thing has nothing to do with SKILL. But I am a firm supporter of SKILL and keeping SKILL in the game.

I remember back in Burning Crusade, my little 10 man guild busted our "butts" to take down Prince Malcheezar before the first nerf... which we knew about because it was live on the test server. And we did it... with a whopping one day to go. And those were good times. But what if we hadn't? If we had waited another week, our chance of really beating that boss would have been lost forever.

As a new player to this game, I would like the opportunity to take things down, as they were originally intended and not as they have been crafted to please the ignorant.

Now that said.... that does not mean that an encounter should never be nerfed. Sometimes the mechanics of a fight are simply broken and must be adjusted.... but normally that is not the case.

If you weight achievements as doing a specific task repeated until you do it exactly as the script intends and repeating it week after week with no change be it dynamic or not as an accomplishment - I have a couple copies of War and Peace I would like hand copied for me.

No raiding in rift is difficult. Its simply repetitious so I'm not sure why anyone cares either way.

[the_real_seebs]

Maybe Trion should put in hard modes, where the mechanics are less forgiving, and just accept that people with slightly unreliable Internet or slower computers will never win those fights.

[Skidrow Bro]

Again most of you in this thread compare only the raiding end of Rift. Believe it or not but there are players out there who don't want to faceroll their way to end game. Myself have not rolled an alt in many months due to the world of Telara content being very easy to play.

[mortaug]

It's only as easy as you make it.
Try leveling as a tank to 50 in pve with no dungeons, or no green or blue gear. Many ways to make the game harder.

[Azreell]

Again most of you in this thread compare only the raiding end of Rift. Believe it or not but there are players out there who don't want to faceroll their way to end game. Myself have not rolled an alt in many months due to the world of Telara content being very easy to play.

I agree but for a different reason then you perhaps.

I have played these type of games for far longer then I care to mention.

The model of leveling up, gearing up, end game raiding, pvp etc etc hasn't change since the first mmorpg was released aka the basic carrot on a stick game play.

So for 15+yrs I have played the same type of game.

In saying that - Perhaps Talera isn't too easy. But, simply I have played so many variations of the same thing it now is second nature to me and boring.

See where I am going with this?

[Skidrow Bro]

It's only as easy as you make it.
Try leveling as a tank to 50 in pve with no dungeons, or no green or blue gear. Many ways to make the game harder.

So by your example we should make a crutch out of our characters to make the game harder?

[Skidrow Bro]

I agree but for a different reason then you perhaps.

I have played these type of games for far longer then I care to mention.

The model of leveling up, gearing up, end game raiding, pvp etc etc hasn't change since the first mmorpg was released aka the basic carrot on a stick game play.

So for 15+yrs I have played the same type of game.

In saying that - Perhaps Talera isn't too easy. But, simply I have played so many variations of the same thing it now is second nature to me and boring.

See where I am going with this?

I fully understand where you are going but compare launch Telara to the now Telara, it's a huge difference in difficulty

[mortaug]

No one is saying make a crutch of a character just play it the way old school games where. "Magic +1 sword" ! Sweet & at only level 10!
Just because the game allowas you to speed track doesn't mean you have to.
2nd edition AD&D was awesome, 3rd &3.5 eh average, 4th edition, oh god just kill me now. Same way with video games.
EQ or EQ2 with all of the advances as in games coming out now would be the best game ever. Not gonna happen though.

[Skidrow Bro]

No one is saying make a crutch of a character just play it the way old school games where. "Magic +1 sword" ! Sweet & at only level 10!
Just because the game allowas you to speed track doesn't mean you have to.
2nd edition AD&D was awesome, 3rd &3.5 eh average, 4th edition, oh god just kill me now. Same way with video games.
EQ or EQ2 with all of the advances as in games coming out now would be the best game ever. Not gonna happen though.

Again from your example I should now play my characters wearing level 10 greens all the way through? So much for actual progression

[Azreell]

I fully understand where you are going but compare launch Telara to the now Telara, it's a huge difference in difficulty

Agree.

But part of that is due to the evolution of the game.

Most of the effort for the title is being introduced to end game. Thus the need for players even new ones to get there as fast as possible as quick as possible.

Understand - I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it. But, the reasoning is pretty evident.

[Moxteth]

So far it seems like the vast majority of people upset by the nerfs are those that have been farming HK for months. They probably spent many nights, hours on end, "bashing their heads against the wall" to perfect each boss fight. I imagine that seeing these nerfs happen make them feel like they wasted their time originally since now it's "easier" but I don't understand why it's so upsetting since they still got their "fun" with the original more difficult content and got the rush from the wins.

These are the same people who are probably heavily or even fully geared in HK relics now and makes me wonder... what trivialized HK encounters more? A few HP reductions and mechanics changes to make things faster or a little more forgiving? Or having 20 people get most/all best in slot items?

It probably just boils down to the people complaining that this is THEIR club, raiding is serious business, and no casuals are allowed to see these zones even after new content is released for those that want to get world firsts.