NO DPS or Threat Meters

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

I disagree with your assessment that looking at someone's armor/weapon doesn't apply. Remember, we're talking about a raid/group leader of a pug who would be fine with kicking someone for doing 10 dps under an arbitrary threshold. They won't see anything wrong with looking at someone and thinking "They're not wearing full epics/items from this zone I'm about to do/etc" and not taking them.

Another example is spell power, attack power, or hp/ac. Simple numbers that are easy for someone to claim as a reason not to invite you.

The second list is better than the first.

[Oggiefishier]

I don't care.

We're not talking about ME.

We're talking about things players could potentially use to make decisions that are not based upon a number like DPS or gearscore.

which is true.. and something that can not and honestly should not be hindered.. forcing people to play with those they do not is not something conducive to a long lasting game.. i've droped groups regardless of the time penalty in wow if i was put in a group with certain types of people.. i pay to enjoy myself with those who like to play in a maner similar to me.. i DONT pay to be forced to play with those whose playstyles i abhore..

we as MMO players are discriminatory .. as a PVEr i dont run with pvpers.. pvpers chose not to run with people like me...we dont wantthe same thing from the game.. ( we technically want the polar oposite)

[Oggiefishier]

The second list is better than the first.

<edited due to reading a bit closer lol>

if people dont have the apropriate gear they wont have the apropriate numbers...

if the raid is a farm raid your not going to want people looking for gear.. i've ran many *DE RUNS* for my guild with a few pugs in it.. rules are simple.. "we are DEing EVERY SINGLE THING THAT DROPS!! we will split the shards at the end of the run if you actually need gear from this raid your in the wrong run"

this is how we used to farm up shards for enchants pre wotlk in wow.. same in other games for rare mats from deconstructing epic armors.. its all in what the run is being done for.

[Oggiefishier]

But in a PUG?. Does it help or hurt?

depends... if your talking about a guild that is a well known group of ninja looters/loud mouths/non team players... yep i'll keep them out of any raid i run... i had a list of 15 guilds in wotlk that i refused to even answer when i advertised for a pug..

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

we as MMO players are discriminatory .. as a PVEr i dont run with pvpers.. pvpers chose not to run with people like me...we dont wantthe same thing from the game.. ( we technically want the polar oposite)

That's a pretty narrow way of looking at it.

I am a player. I like what I like. I PvP way better than a lot of people who only like PvP. I PvE way better than a lot of people who only like PvE.

The only thing that matters is what the goals of people are at the moment (for groups and PUG raids) . . . and having people with differing priorities in a guild can make for a stronger depth of field if it's handled well.

[Oggiefishier]

That's a pretty narrow way of looking at it.

I am a player. I like what I like. I PvP way better than a lot of people who only like PvP. I PvE way better than a lot of people who only like PvE.

The only thing that matters is what the goals of people are at the moment (for groups and PUG raids) . . . and having people with differing priorities in a guild can make for a stronger depth of field if it's handled well.

actually it usually just leads to a guild split in my experience.. its why i stick with my current guild we are a pure pve raid guild.. we dont pvp.. we dont stop anyone from doing it but we do ask the pvpers to NOT spam guild chat looking for people to go pvp as all it does is anoy us as we joind the guild to do pve.. and NOT to be annoyed by the pvp here or there spam... not our cup of tea..( its also why i think the most pvpers we have ever had at one time in the guild was 5...)

we also dont have to retrain the pvpers to NOT spam thier highest threat move and explain why the big bad raid boss jsut turned and one shot the warlock who was spaming searing pain.... most pvpers i know have no concept of threat as they usually dont even pay attention to it as its non existant in pvp.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

actually it usually just leads to a guild split in my experience.. its why i stick with my current guild we are a pure pve raid guild.. we dont pvp.. we dont stop anyone from doing it but we do ask the pvpers to NOT spam guild chat looking for people to go pvp as all it does is anoy us as we joind the guild to do pve.. and NOT to be annoyed by the pvp here or there spam... not our cup of tea..( its also why i think the most pvpers we have ever had at one time in the guild was 5...)

R-L has been running for 7 years with members spending varying time in PvP and PvE in the games the community has played.

[ITISI]

depends... if your talking about a guild that is a well known group of ninja looters/loud mouths/non team players... yep i'll keep them out of any raid i run... i had a list of 15 guilds in wotlk that i refused to even answer when i advertised for a pug..

This is a constructive answer. Many thanks for your input.

[liri]

I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say here.

I'm making the point that if an instance can be completed, albeit slower, that people will be less inclined to kick if there's a longer wait time to replace. As WoW is the epitome of easy replacement, it's a poor example to be used for arguments. (Which you concede, fine.)

Well for me, if your pugging, unless the content is well below the average content being completed. Time isn't a concern. I do not worry about pug member A making us take a little longer through a dungeon/raid, but I think the entire idea of pugging the top tier raids is silly. If that is possible Rifts will lose my interest quickly because it will be too easy. In a guild run, yes I want the DPS meters so I can help guildmates/they can help me improve and become a better player. Almost all elite guilds use the meters to improve themselves and their guildmates, as well as in theorycrafting. The only people I have seen get kicked because of meters were trials who were jsut not cut out to be in a guild of that level.

I like DPS Meters/parsers, I don't really care which. DPS meters give you the chance to on the fly adjust your rotation if necessary, parsers give you more information to help you build your rotation. On my healers I find I only use parsers, besides everyone immediately knows when a healer screws up.

Meters are not really a problem, if someone is running a pug and kicking people because of meters the problem is with them. Meters are a tool to help people become better raiders by realizing what spells help boost their dps the most on any given fight.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

I like DPS Meters/parsers, I don't really care which. DPS meters give you the chance to on the fly adjust your rotation if necessary, parsers give you more information to help you build your rotation. On my healers I find I only use parsers, besides everyone immediately knows when a healer screws up.

1) Parsers can do everything meters can do and 2) everyone THINKS they know when healers screw up.

[Dinadass]

1) Parsers can do everything meters can do and 2) everyone THINKS they know when healers screw up.

Everybody knows that if someone died, the healer screwed up. It's not rocket surgery.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

Everybody knows that if someone died, the healer screwed up. It's not rocket surgery.

I'm assuming you're making a funny.

[Auai]

Everybody knows that if someone died, the healer screwed up. It's not rocket surgery.

If i was a healer i would probably be offended by what you just said but i will give you the benifit of the doubt that you was being sarcastic.

[The-Destroyer]

Ok so how about a vote to see the who's on what side?

(Or if you don't like me which ~75% of the forum does ignore this)

Just sate if you're: 1) pro DPS meter or con 2) pro gearscore ro con 3) DPS and Gearscore pro or con


If you want to know I'm pro gearscore and a DPS meter!

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

Ok so how about a vote to see the who's on what side?

(Or if you don't like me which ~75% of the forum does ignore this)

Just sate if you're: 1) pro DPS meter or con 2) pro gearscore ro con 3) DPS and Gearscore pro or con


If you want to know I'm pro gearscore and a DPS meter!

I've parsed the threads multiple times before and it comes out in favor of keeping meters out of the game each time.