NO DPS or Threat Meters

[ag0nizing]

Because a Meter allows you to make adjustments during a fight instead of after a wipe.
Hey the tanks is solid on threat? Lets burn some cooldowns now.
My threat is kinda high, let me tone it back a bit..

Instead of, **** man I don't know what happened, he just attacked me.

[Deson]

And I would blacklist u as you seem to be one of those who doesn't perform optimally. Why should I invite a slacker?

We agree then. We play differently and your parsing saves us both time.

[Kidomi]

If we are talking about WoW, you can gear up so quick without running any heroic.
Took me a day to get over gs5800 with my last alt without any outside help.
If anyone can't, they just have no clue what they are doing and are not willing to put efforts into gearing up.
Why should I bring these people along my raids?

Well this was in regards to the particular scenario where I'm NOT running with my guild.
The reality is that very rarely have I had cause to do that, but when I do that's what I did.
If I'm running a small party for something, chances are I'm bored.
There's a LOT of people who feel as you do, and just want to bang out the run as fast as possible.

I figure people need a chance to start, and as I consider myself a pretty good player usually, I can offer strategies, advice and hopefully circumvent the lack of DPS from this player.
(Remember, we're talking about two equal DPS toons, not tank or healers.)
The added benefit is another player who either now knows the drill or I've discovered someone I'm not likely to party with again.

[Kidomi]

Even now when WoW is in easy mode, most groups would wipe at heroic blood queen if ANY one raid member doesn't know what he/she is doing.

I don't see how mechanics in EQ much challenging than in WoW.......

Alright, lets see what we got here.

Took alot of concentration to keep a tank up in EQ? I must have missed that memo when we dual box are clerics in CH rotations from Kunark to PoP. It was tough doing a small count and hitting one button? Time to time, we actually would use a HoT and patch heal if needed!

Just a few examples of what WoW did right.

BWL and Naxx were quite well made and had challenges.
Zul Aman, doing the timed run, amazing.
Hell even some the fights in Karazahn had good mechanics.

Wrath, ICC had some fun fights, Blood Queen, Sindragosa, LK all come to mind.

I mean, Naggy and Vox raids weren't that tough at launch, once we all figured out you could just sit your Ranged DPS and Healers down the stairs so they didnt get hit by AoE, it was basic.

But I mean, you want me to name this great hard content with WoW, name some for EQ? I mean up until SoL every fight was nearly Tank/Spank AoE damage and a fear mechanic.

[Plus1]

And I would blacklist u as you seem to be one of those who doesn't perform optimally. Why should I invite a slacker?

Because, by nature, Gaming IS slacking. By being gamers we are slackers. Dress it up as pretty as you like, but there are so many actually productive things to do. But instead we choose to sit at a computer screen doing NOTHING of any actual value. We are all slackers. You shouldn't discriminate your own kind.

[Kidomi]

You know what.....I stand differently. I am a min/maxer, and I use excel spread sheets to do calculations as number crunchers for games. I would write myself a 20 or even up to 50 pages notes while playing games. I enjoy that.
(I even run the maths with starcraft2 mods to optimize my performance!)

And no I refuse to group with slackers (ie less competent players).
If you wanna take it easy, don't raid, or raid with other slackers and have fun getting wiped.

Even if you go to the court and play soccer, basketball or football etc, why would I want to take a player who drags the whole team back? Why would I want to take a sport teamate who would make us lose the game? I play (be it mmorpg or sport) to have fun AND to perform my best. Laying back isn't fun. That's boring.

Because, by nature, Gaming IS slacking. By being gamers we are slackers. Dress it up as pretty as you like, but there are so many actually productive things to do. But instead we choose to sit at a computer screen doing NOTHING of any actual value. We are all slackers. You shouldn't discriminate your own kind.

[Plus1]

You know what.....I stand differently. I am a min/maxer, and I use excel spread sheets to do calculations as number crunchers for games. I would write myself a 20 or even up to 50 pages notes while playing games. I enjoy that.
(I even run the maths with starcraft2 mods to optimize my performance!)

That doesn't mean it's a productive activity. You're just more intense slacker. Like I said, dress it us however you like, gaming is slacking. If you don't want to be counted among slackers do something IRL, build something, read something to expand personal knowledge, do anything other than chat with other slackers in front of flashing pretty pictures. We're slackers.

In fact, by beng here, on the forums we are the worst slackers. We are the slackers who spend the time when we're not slacking, discussing what the best way to slack is.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

Random example from reading 20 more pages this morning . . . this has to do with the idea of judging the player by the stats of the character.

At one point in time I was playing the game "Evony" for a couple of months. I ended up playing on a server where there were a couple of groups that I felt would match my personal style (you can probably see from my posting here, that style involves a fair bit of time I can dedicate to things) and I got in touch with them. None of them would take me because I was a "noob" and hadn't played before so my ranking in the game was outside of what they wanted to see.

So about a week later when a new server opened up I joined it immediately and started building (for myself and my wife. She played when she was around, I managed her kingdom the rest of the time) and joined an alliance at the beginning. I lied about my experience when I originally asked to join.

I was top 200 pretty much the entire time I played and I was top 100 when I quit playing. I was in the number one alliance, and I was about number ten within that alliance. All of this without paying (it's a buy-to-win game) for anything. Purely on my own merits. I was an enforcer for my alliance and I was sending troops to hit things nearly a day away at times. I was integral to the security of our region, and I personally evicted dozens of players.

If you'd checked me for "achievements" or "gear" (game experience or buying power in Evony's case) I'd have been lacking. And yet I was more of a help to the alliance than most people who were buying advantages and had a great deal of experience.

It's not the toon that makes for success. It's the player.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

This does not explain how you would decide between two players (what you quoted).

Flip a coin? First come first served?

Take your pick. Both work. If you're in such a hurry that you don't want to chat at least.

My personal PUG philosophy is that I'll talk with people a bit (a minute or two) or hand them off to someone else to talk to for that long before making a decision.

[Dinadass]

That doesn't mean it's a productive activity. You're just more intense slacker. Like I said, dress it us however you like, gaming is slacking. If you don't want to be counted among slackers do something IRL, build something, read something to expand personal knowledge, do anything other than chat with other slackers in front of flashing pretty pictures. We're slackers.

In fact, by beng here, on the forums we are the worst slackers. We are the slackers who spend the time when we're not slacking, discussing what the best way to slack is.

How is playing computer games slacking while reading trashy fantasy novels or painting Warhammer miniatures not? Free time is free time, trying to label some hobbies as worthless and others as acceptable is ******ed.

[Dinadass]

Random example from reading 20 more pages this morning . . . this has to do with the idea of judging the player by the stats of the character.

At one point in time I was playing the game "Evony" for a couple of months. I ended up playing on a server where there were a couple of groups that I felt would match my personal style (you can probably see from my posting here, that style involves a fair bit of time I can dedicate to things) and I got in touch with them. None of them would take me because I was a "noob" and hadn't played before so my ranking in the game was outside of what they wanted to see.

So about a week later when a new server opened up I joined it immediately and started building (for myself and my wife. She played when she was around, I managed her kingdom the rest of the time) and joined an alliance at the beginning. I lied about my experience when I originally asked to join.

I was top 200 pretty much the entire time I played and I was top 100 when I quit playing. I was in the number one alliance, and I was about number ten within that alliance. All of this without paying (it's a buy-to-win game) for anything. Purely on my own merits. I was an enforcer for my alliance and I was sending troops to hit things nearly a day away at times. I was integral to the security of our region, and I personally evicted dozens of players.

If you'd checked me for "achievements" or "gear" (game experience or buying power in Evony's case) I'd have been lacking. And yet I was more of a help to the alliance than most people who were buying advantages and had a great deal of experience.

It's not the toon that makes for success. It's the player.

You are the beautiful unique snowflake that is the exception to the rule.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

If it's for something really hard...

Then you shouldn't be PUGging it, and you'd go into guild recruitment processes to find your people. Those are far more detailed and look at the player more closely, so you have no need of metrics when you're already interviewing and inspecting.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

You are the beautiful unique snowflake that is the exception to the rule.

Thank you sweetie. I missed you last night too.

[Taemek]

Because a Meter allows you to make adjustments during a fight instead of after a wipe.
Hey the tanks is solid on threat? Lets burn some cooldowns now.
My threat is kinda high, let me tone it back a bit..

Instead of, **** man I don't know what happened, he just attacked me.

Wrong, data shows that riding the fence with agro and doing consistant DPS rather then burst nets you more DPS over periods of time. Fights that are over in mere seconds require burst.

Meters have truely watered down peoples ability to *feel* for it and experience failure. I think meters give people an artificial feeling that they are *good* players, when they really aren't.

Imho, if DPS/Threat meters enter the game, I don't think I will play Rift to be honest. There is several key people in this thread that show why communities can suck some serious balls because they think they are *elitests* because they gauge they're performance from what thier meter says and this is a perfect example of players who have no idea how to interact with an encounter or others without using thier own awareness and perception.

The thing I truely like about gaming today is, DPS Meters or No DPS meters, I have noticed the trend for mobs randomly targeting the second person on the hate list at certain points during the fight, target the healer and put the pressure on randomly, drop agro on the Tank competely. All these features seem to becoming common features within the MMORPG universe, so whats the point in the DPS/Threat meter? None, just use a parser and learn the different types of mobs that do these features.

So here is to hoping Rift mobs in group and raid based content are coded the same way, because I can't wait too see how many people get smashed in the face from not paying attention and only concentrating on hardcore DPS, because the first sign I see of it and not using there skill sets to help the healer keep them alive, I will just tell the healer to not heal them, then your DPS meter will mean **** when your eating pavement for not paying attention. Then I can't wait to put these big bad boys who think they are elitist on ignore because they're salty tears are blaming me for not holding agro when the mob it self is strictly designed to dump it OR switch randomly.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

You can examine this data and make a good call to save your guild much time and headache.

Anyone who has run a raid will always agree that a good Meter/Parser is a life saver when it comes to making decisions to better your guild.

There's a fundamental difference between an in game meter and a 3rd party parser. Even if you don't want to get into the rest of it, parsers are inevitable, meters are not.

So let's stick with parsers.