Ye Olde Glory Dayes

[Sornin]

thats the thing with EQ1 the only thing I found challenging was the raiding everything was about as simplistic and dumbed down as any of the games nowadays. it just took a lot longer to get through the nonsense, to me that doesn't make it more challenging at all it makes it more tedious.

I disagree. There are dozens, if not hundreds of examples as to why that is false.

Here are a few:

1. Night was actually dark.
2. Enemies had no leashes.
3. Zones had enemies of very disparate levels.
4. No radar or map.
5. No quest log or quest indicators.
6. Death was a tragedy, not a minor setback.

Running through a pitch-black zone full of aggressive enemies that will never stop chasing you, with no map or radar to guide you, while knowing that dying means a 30-minute run back to your corpse, is more challenging than anything I have seen recently.

I am not claiming this should be revived, but it was a challenge.

Actually, I would love to see no quest indicators, since that meant you had to actually pay attention to what NPCs were saying and learn about the lore.

[Barar]

playing the game together with other people duh, but thats the thing people who bring up EQ don't even MENTION the game its "i had fun because i met my best friend there". And thats most of my memories too ... the game sucked but the friends were great, but that had nothing to do with the game. I could have easily made friends like those on AOL.


at least with games now they are much more fun where i can say "yeah i remember when my guild stormed X, y or Z keep in DAOC" or "I remember getting a CTA in DAOC and having to run out to our frontier" or "there was this one time in X, Y or Z dungeon in WoW when all hell broke loose ..."

Do you really want to go down this road?

I had fun doing a bunch of stuff in EQ. A small list:

1. Doing my epic quest
2. Helping friends with their epic quest
3. Exploring the Planes
4. Leveling in Frontier Mountains
5. Leveling in Steamfont Mountains, Unrest

I could really go on and on, but your main point is unfounded. Just because you didn't enjoy the game doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of other people did not.

you operate in a group environment in all MMOs ... like i have always said Try soloing in WoWs endgame, Try Soloing at EQ2s endgame try soloing Warhammers/Aion Endgame. And see how far you get.

Did you even play in Aion endgame? The best way to get the endgame equipment was to solo in the Abyss. It's best not to mention endgame in Aion when really all it consisted of was soloing and 1 decent dungeon.

[Phoenix_79]

I disagree. There are dozens, if not hundreds of examples as to why that is false.

Here are a few:

1. Night was actually dark.
2. Enemies had no leashes.
3. Zones had enemies of very disparate levels.
4. No radar or map.
5. No quest log or quest indicators.
6. Death was a tragedy, not a minor setback.

Running through a pitch-black zone full of aggressive enemies that will never stop chasing you, with no map or radar to guide you, while knowing that dying means a 30-minute run back to your corpse, is more challenging than anything I have seen recently.

I am not claiming this should be revived, but it was a challenge.

Actually, I would love to see no quest indicators, since that meant you had to actually pay attention to what NPCs were saying and learn about the lore.

lol Kith forest at night anyone =)
having to prep before a pull (instead of chain pulling the entire room)
kiting mobs in PoF
temp quest
shroud crafting quest
falling from kelethin
busting trains
trying not to slide off the ledge due to ice or trying to jump over a hole in the floor surrounded by ice (forget the zone name)
getting corpses out of the bottom of Befallen
giving out free 96% rezes
giving out free meaningful buffs on the cleric and shammy

I can continue on with the stuff I enjoyed in EQ that haven't touched other games. I also avoided anything that I enjoyed doing for a first time. Anygame can be fun when it's something you do for the first time. Those are just a few that I enjoyed doing or had a laugh at more than once.

[OdwinOddball]

Kendricke, you and I are on the exact same page.

I've been saying very similar things in a few other threads, just not quite as well done.

EQ1 was by far the best MMO I've ever played, and certainly one of the best games I've ever played. But in hindsight, it was this way for the community I played as much if not more than it was the game itself.

The nostalgia for 1999-2003 EQ is just as strong on these boards as it was on Vanguards pre-release. The major difference for me is which side I am on now. With Vanguard I was the one lobbying for EQ1 with a new graphics engine. Now, I've realized that this cannot, and frankly should not, ever happen.

If you took Velious Era EQ and released it today, it would die within a few months. Frustration does not equal challenge, it just equals frustration, and we have lost our MMO innocence.

Long gone are the times when I could be happy waiting 15-30 minutes for a boat, and then riding the boat for another 10 minutes. Back then I kept a book out, or the TV on while I played to give me something to do while I waited on the game.

This is not hardcore, its stupid. Waiting for boats, waiting for 10 minutes for mana, waiting for hours for spawns. This is not epic or fun. It is tedium.

EQ was a blast in its day because it was the first of its kind. But go play EQ today. It is not the same game, it is no where near the same game. Waiting for boats disapeared in PoK. Tunnel auctions gone with Luclin. Waiting for mana gone with the rise fo the crack(Clarity) dealer. Much of what we remember from the old days has been changed or removed entirely. EQ has been forced to adapt in order to survive. Hell when was the last time someone in EQ had to keep their map binder handy on their desk?

Those that think they can just slap new graphics on EQ and magically recapture the old experience are wearing blinders. Vanguard should have taught you this. Vanguard was made by the creator of EQ, and though it had serious technical flaws and a disastrous launch and post launch support, it did an excellent job of recapturing the feel of EQ. But it did so without the bulk of the tedium.

Rift is not going to be EQ1. It is going to be Rift. Hopefully it will draw upon the ideas and spirit of EQ1, Vanguard, and yes even WoW and be the next evolution in MMO gaming. We'll just have to see.

[Apoth]

Kendricke, you and I are on the exact same page.

I've been saying very similar things in a few other threads, just not quite as well done.

EQ1 was by far the best MMO I've ever played, and certainly one of the best games I've ever played. But in hindsight, it was this way for the community I played as much if not more than it was the game itself.

The nostalgia for 1999-2003 EQ is just as strong on these boards as it was on Vanguards pre-release. The major difference for me is which side I am on now. With Vanguard I was the one lobbying for EQ1 with a new graphics engine. Now, I've realized that this cannot, and frankly should not, ever happen.

If you took Velious Era EQ and released it today, it would die within a few months. Frustration does not equal challenge, it just equals frustration, and we have lost our MMO innocence.

Long gone are the times when I could be happy waiting 15-30 minutes for a boat, and then riding the boat for another 10 minutes. Back then I kept a book out, or the TV on while I played to give me something to do while I waited on the game.

This is not hardcore, its stupid. Waiting for boats, waiting for 10 minutes for mana, waiting for hours for spawns. This is not epic or fun. It is tedium.

EQ was a blast in its day because it was the first of its kind. But go play EQ today. It is not the same game, it is no where near the same game. Waiting for boats disapeared in PoK. Tunnel auctions gone with Luclin. Waiting for mana gone with the rise fo the crack(Clarity) dealer. Much of what we remember from the old days has been changed or removed entirely. EQ has been forced to adapt in order to survive. Hell when was the last time someone in EQ had to keep their map binder handy on their desk?

Those that think they can just slap new graphics on EQ and magically recapture the old experience are wearing blinders. Vanguard should have taught you this. Vanguard was made by the creator of EQ, and though it had serious technical flaws and a disastrous launch and post launch support, it did an excellent job of recapturing the feel of EQ. But it did so without the bulk of the tedium.

Rift is not going to be EQ1. It is going to be Rift. Hopefully it will draw upon the ideas and spirit of EQ1, Vanguard, and yes even WoW and be the next evolution in MMO gaming. We'll just have to see.

well said completely agree

[Tachi]

Kendricke, you've made one of the(if not THE) best posts I've read on these forums yet. Thank you, and I fully agree with what you're saying.

[Faelor]

I'm not sure if I agree with you Kendricke. As someone who played a Ranger in that one game everyone is talking about, I enjoyed my 24 seconds of fame at the beginning of every pull. Don't take that away from me!

Seriously though, fantastic post.

While I am glad so many people have wonderful memories of the the glory days, things have changed. Not just games, but people also. Many claim "If you build it [old game here], they will come" but that is simply incorrect. For one example, many of those hardcore college gamers are now working, working families, a mix of the two and or much more. I'm not going to pull out fake numbers, but claiming the niche market would be booming if such a product was released is kind of silly.


TL;DR
Reminiscing is great, but don't overdose on it and be swayed by nostalgia.

[Verdegris]

I loved the old games...heck I have fond memories of Isle of Kesmai...totally ascii based...but would I want to play it today...heck no.

Give me the latest and greatest. Learning a new craft, learning the ins and out of a new game. That's what I enjoy.

I still play EQ2...but I'm a carpenter and love, love my housing. I hope this game has housing...that is what keeps me returning to a game...my own little piece of the world.

[Xilith]

I'm on the fence, there's things I want out of an MMO that came from EQ, and things I want to leave behind.

EQ was more sandboxy than most titles that come out. I feel like I'm on rails grinding trivial quests, while facerolling mobs that don't stand a chance at even denting my health bar in every game I've played sense. The only open ended games these days are almost purely PVP. I want a PVE centric world, not a game where everyone is playing the same levels in the same order, because the developers have made it so much more efficient than any other options.

I want a game with a rich faction system that lets me decide who I'm allied with, not forced into a separate world by artificial faction lines.

I don't want to do a naked corpse run and wipe 3 more times just trying to get back to your body. I do want a death system that I actually care about, for the reasons already iterated on this thread.

I want something interesting and challenging before the end game. If all the games are going to just railroad you quickly to max level with tons of boring quests and trivial mobs that you solo (because its more efficient in just about any game these days), I'd rather just start out max level and go from there. One shotting mobs for xp on some quest I didn't even read the text for because I grabbed a dozen quests at whatever that quest hub was called is not fun gameplay. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to solo, but for God's sake make grouping more efficient, and make both of them challenging.

I'm willing to accept that per-group instancing is pretty much going to be the standard nowadays, but the games are feeling more and more like a lobby for instances.

I guess for me, its the fun and challenge level that determine a grind, not what I'm doing.

[Hordakk]

Kendricke, I agree with you about 90%. SOME things in MMOs today are too easy for some of us, BUT
EQ1 (my first and favorite MMO) was a love-hate relationship, to be sure. Not gonna get into the whole
hardcore argument crap, but I think your post was mostly spot on.

[Dekaden]

you're not going to get EQ with new graphics as game developers are smart enough to realize that JUST YOU(and maybe 100 others) would be playing it. so might as well quit the genre now.

yeah try to play WOW as a singleplayer game at the endgame and tell me how far you get. sure leveling is solo but who cares about leveling through the game .....

oh wait thats right the "hardcore" on this forum care about how others level, they want to make sure its the least fun experience anyone can ever have with a game.

because killing basic dumbed down AI Rats 10000 times makes them more hardcore than someone who kills the rat 1000 times
because sitting on their ***** doing nothing waiting 40 hours for a spawn is much more hardcore than someone going into an instance and actually fighting the mob
waiting on a boat for 30 minutes to get to the zone you want to go is very hardcore.

the endgame is when the actual game starts, getting to max level is the entrance quest.

you operate in a group environment in all MMOs ... like i have always said Try soloing in WoWs endgame, Try Soloing at EQ2s endgame try soloing Warhammers/Aion Endgame. And see how far you get.

Ive lost quite a bit of respect, Apoth. I'll stop there. I think you're doing a fine job speaking for yourself.

[Durnkrag]

Ive lost quite a bit of respect, Apoth. I'll stop there. I think you're doing a fine job speaking for yourself.

You had some in the first place? :P

[Mystarra]

I agree with you as well, Kendricke. I do not want the frustrating mechanics back in any game I play. I don't want corpse runs, meditating, and long boat rides, etc.

But there were aspects of EQ that weren't tedious to me and that I can't seem to find elsewhere; one being the classes. As you leveled, you didn't just always get a higher level version of the same exact spell or ability from five levels ago. There were class defining abilities that made you want to reach that certain level. And that coupled with the AA's made your class noticeably more powerful. Nowadays in most MMO's when I reach level 50 I don't feel much different than level 10. And as Kendricke mentioned, there were some unintended class abilities such as the feign death pulling. Players got creative with their classes and when someone played well, it was noticeable.

Another aspect that I know others find tedious but I don't is the longer leveling curve. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not much of an end-game person and I do enjoy taking my time. At that time you knew when you saw someone high level that they'd been playing a long while and it felt like such an achievement when you got there.

But aside from those couple things, EQ is not a game I could go back to, even with better graphics. I tried playing the original again but quickly found myself frustrated and wondering what the heck I was thinking trying to go back.

[Europe]

Agreed 100%, Kendricke.

[Grovak]

I played an EQ emulator recently so it was just like playing in 1999. I was amazed at how hard it was back then. It was really fun going back to the old days, but if you made a game like that today people would get frustrated and stop playing.

Unfortunately, games have continued to trend on making things easier just to keep people interested. While some of us like the challenge, people are so used to being spoon fed that I don't know how many people would have the patience for it.

I'm looking for 3 things.

1. A graphically pleasing game
2. A good storyline
3. Character individuality

The character individuality is one of the most important. I agree that one of the great things about EQ was that you kept getting better abilities as you leveled and didn't just keep getting a new rank of frostbolt. Each class had a specific role so they were each needed for something.

I've had a hard time keeping my interest in any game other than EQ over the years. I like what I see so far. I've got to try to keep an open mind and give it a chance.