ID Loot - Top to Bottom overhaul needed

[Chrissibow]

So going up a TIER of gear from HK relic pants which any pug can get on any day of the week to Infernal Chausses causes me to choose between losing sp to pick up scrit or losing spell crit to pick up spellpower.

Maybe you're right and its not an outright DPS loss but go run some 5 min parses with Asphodel's Empowered Leggings vs Infernal Chausses in BnJ spec and see how many times you have to do it before you get a statistically significant difference (short answer - you can't). THATS NOT AN UPGRADE.

And the fact that Chausses of the Dawn which require 150 ID Marks + a Laethys drop... and therefore don't even exist on at least 4 servers are only +14 sp and minus 5 scrit is just silly. How is that reward proportional to risk or time investment. Its bad design from a developer who ignored ample and nearly 100% concordant feedback about the itemization problems of all of the ID gear on the PTR.

They ignored it because Trion is right.

The Blizzard style of stat tier to tier is very worse. Let's go from 10 STR to 100. Right this breaks the game long term. WoW is a sea on bad gear design now. Let's have gems go from 50 INT to 500. There's nothing inbetween?

Everything in ID is a upgrade. Upgrades don't have to be huge. This keeps things in check. They are trying to keep crit in check by not letting you crip cap easily. A good thing.

Each tier should be better and it is. Not hugely better but again a good thing.

Now where they are placing the gear on what bosses could be better I'll give you that. Weapons should have come off the first 4 Bosses. And the Heart drop epic off the last one being it's epic and shouldn't be had by everyone.

[Bluelightt]

They ignored it because Trion is right.

The Blizzard style of stat tier to tier is very worse. Let's go from 10 STR to 100. Right this breaks the game long term. WoW is a sea on bad gear design now. Let's have gems go from 50 INT to 500. There's nothing inbetween?

Everything in ID is a upgrade. Upgrades don't have to be huge. This keeps things in check. They are trying to keep crit in check by not letting you crip cap easily. A good thing.

Each tier should be better and it is. Not hugely better but again a good thing.

Now where they are placing the gear on what bosses could be better I'll give you that. Weapons should have come off the first 4 Bosses. And the Heart drop epic off the last one being it's epic and shouldn't be had by everyone.

I would agree with your argument if it wasn't stupid easy for mages and rogues to get crit capped while clerics (and warriors?) it definitely is not the same level of ease. I know personally my mage is 4 pc HK and has over 100 spell crit more than my ID geared Cleric. I'm not saying to nerf mage/rogue gear to make it harder but to say they are keeping it in check by making it hard to crit cap isn't correct for 2 out of 4 callings. Clerics actually get downgrade in SC in almost every slot from HK to ID mark gear, keeping it even I would have been fine with.

[Bowler Hat]

If you level to 60 and ID is still better than you can get then that fail design.

At 55 you should start replacing gear. That's 5 levels over ID 50 gear.

I think you're very close. I can't see ID relics being great at 60, but then I'm not sure you'll be replacing them with greens then either. Maybe they will be just on par. I'd expect ID gear to last 6 or 8 levels based purely on the relative stat increases over level 50 dungeon gear. It may even see you through to 60.

If you have a look at the following table (too big to post inline it seems), you'll get a feel for how much more powerful ID cleric gear is over entry level Dungeon gear. Dungeon gear is a pretty good upgrade for a fresh 50 in greens and blues, and gear progression from 1-50 is well graduated. I'm not sure how big the jump from 40-50 is in total stats, but that could give an indication of what to expect.

Can anyone give an SP and SC value for a level 40 cleric in quest greens and blues? (Just the Armor slots obviously)

[Bowler Hat]

I would agree with your argument if it wasn't stupid easy for mages and rogues to get crit capped while clerics (and warriors?) it definitely is not the same level of ease. I know personally my mage is 4 pc HK and has over 100 spell crit more than my ID geared Cleric. I'm not saying to nerf mage/rogue gear to make it harder but to say they are keeping it in check by making it hard to crit cap isn't correct for 2 out of 4 callings. Clerics actually get downgrade in SC in almost every slot from HK to ID mark gear, keeping it even I would have been fine with.

I think the biggest problem here is that Rogues and Mages are getting 1:1 crit from their primary stat, whereas Warriors and Clerics are picking up crit from their secondary stat. This is the biggest contributor to the crit imbalance. I'm sure Trion would like to change how crit is earned (do you remember when they looked at doing that on the PTS some time back?), but I think they decided it was just way to difficult. It's a shame really because they missed a golden opportunity to do this during the 1.7 gear reset.

[Bluelightt]

I think the biggest problem here is that Rogues and Mages are getting 1:1 crit from their primary stat, whereas Warriors and Clerics are picking up crit from their secondary stat. This is the biggest contributor to the crit imbalance. I'm sure Trion would like to change how crit is earned (do you remember when they looked at doing that on the PTS some time back?), but I think they decided it was just way to difficult. It's a shame really because they missed a golden opportunity to do this during the 1.7 gear reset.

I tried to type out the primary stat reason in my post but I got 5 minute'd and got too lazy but yes I agree completely that the difference comes from their primary stat giving crit and ours not.

[TheGrinnz]

I tried to type out the primary stat reason in my post but I got 5 minute'd and got too lazy but yes I agree completely that the difference comes from their primary stat giving crit and ours not.

Funny enough, Rogues and Mages value their primary and secondary stats mostly evenly because of 1. being crit capped and 2. giving the same amount of SP/AP. Then with enough cleric gear a mage might not be crit capped anymore.