Infernal Dawn -> Storm Legion!

[Soulshield]

For the ones who are complaining about running some raids for months maybe Trion should implement some thing like in TSW you could upgrade your whatever relic endgame raid weapon/armor for as a example 100 raid marks to upgrade +1sp/2ap on weapon and +1 main stat point for amor upgradable to a maximum between 3 and 5. Especially mages wouldn`t complain about what to do with their tons of marks and could happy upgrade their stats ;)
But sure the if someone maxed their equip on this way they would complain why next tier is not such a upgrade but would be some thing to think/discuss about

Sorry for my bad english ;)

[Havors]

As a fellow raider I am wondering what we are going to use our ID Vendor Gear for. Now we know SL is around the corner and ID itself is on farm. So is there any point in doing ID if there is nothing to use the gear for? What I mean is, when the expansion hits our current gear will be useless, UNLESS they release a new raid before the expansion, which is very unlikely. I am 98% sure that the gear we get during our quest towards level 60 cap will be equivalent or better than ID relic gear. This is how most expansions have worked in MMOs similar to this, however this is my first MMO so I'm not 100% sure. What's your thoughts on this? Is there even any point of doing ID? Maybe for Cosmetics?!

Does it matter?? New expansion, new gear, new zones, new souls, new all kinds! Just look forward to it.

They may release a level 51-54 dungeon that will be easier if you have ID gear. Most likely the green/blue level 51-54 gear wont be better than ID relics. It will probably be the epic drops from that point on that will be better.

[Zoldar11]

Unfortunately Expansion=Master Gear Reset.

The leveling greens will be under the ID epics for sure for the first couple of levels.
After that reason is pointing that greens will replace your epics and you will have to go through the entire gear process.
By the time you re 60, there shouldn't be a single item from 50 left. If Rift doesn't follow that recipy i will be seriously very amazed
What i am hoping for, is that gear upgrades will be reasonable from tier to tier, because the "other mmo" offers a full gear reset now every tier, rather than every expansion.

[NearioNL]

....
The levels will be done and over with in a day. Two for the slackers. And then its expert dungeon grinding to gear up for the first raid where all of your previous gear is essentially junk. That will be the experience for any guild who is going to be racing for world firsts in the expansion.
.....

But an Xpack has a bigger chance of attracting new subs then lets say releasing a new raid with a new tier of gear.
Its just a massive content patch, but that you pay for it.
They could have done the exact same as the Xpack, only without the raise of level cap. but then it would be "less" appealing to potential new players.
I understand you completely, but there are 2 sides on 1 coin

[Vera]

You sound like someone who hasn't been through it before, or perhaps don't run with the end game crowd.

The levels will be done and over with in a day. Two for the slackers. And then its expert dungeon grinding to gear up for the first raid where all of your previous gear is essentially junk. That will be the experience for any guild who is going to be racing for world firsts in the expansion.

Hold on a moment... I dare say I've done this before... Pretty sure that was exactly what was happening back in March of '11 with the expert dungeons and GSB!

You're the one living in denial. Expansions with a level increase and a effective gear reset are MMO companies way of saying "we're out of ideas, lets just force reset people so they'll play longer."

Its essentially setting people back 10 levels and having them do the end game grind all over again, with new gear, new faction rep to grind and maybe even a new tier of sourcestone to farm (I sincerely hope not, but I can just see it happening.)

Calling it a level cap increase is just smoke and mirrors. Feel free to buy into it if you'd like. And I'd be more than happy to apologize if it turns out NOT to be what I know it will be.

This may all be true, but actually, it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference.

I want to see new raid content. I was always going to have to grind gear to see that, whether it was a fourth tier of level 50 raid content, or a first tier of level 60 raid content.

It will be nice to have some fresh instances in which to do dailies, new zones to play around in, new specs to use and mess with.

It has to be more exciting than just tacking on a new tier of raid content, no?

[Vioarr]

It's going to be better to have the gear there's no question about that, the question is whether the benefit is worth the time invested. My answer to that is if you're playing this game and clearing ID then you probably don't have anything better to do anyway.

Speculating about the expansion gear is about as useful as speculating about ID's difficulty turned out to be.

[Skarrij]

For any min max'er, you will do ID until your guild have all they need then raid if you still having a laugh in there. As you want top gear for when you start lvling up, it doesn't matter if you get better in couple of hours, you still want the advantage. Atleast thats what i think of this.

[mo0trix]

After that reason is pointing that greens will replace your epics and you will have to go through the entire gear process.

I'll bet you a thousand plat, not even a level 60 green item will be better than any epic ID item.

[Chrissibow]

I"m hoping that our ID gear at least carries us into expert SL dungeons. I don't think Crucia's raid will come directly with the release of SL so I think for awhile it's going to be like release. The dungeons will be the temporary progression and I'm okay with that. If ID gear gives us the advantage in progressing through the dungeons faster than the gear you get from quests then that's awesome.

I think a few select relics will make it into crucia's raid as well. Namely a lot of the caster weapons with SP procs especially the archon off hand and possibly the bard sword?

If you are leveling and every drop and quest reward is trash all the way to level cap in SL that would be the worse design ever.

What fun would is be knowning you'll never get 1 thing in 10 levels?

I think gear should start resetting about 54-55 if you are in ID or HK gear.

It gives you a jump start is all.

If Trion designs level content around full ID gear what chance does someone have to level a toon not in ID gear? None.

EI is a prefect example of that. You level to 50 you hit EI and it rips you up. The jump is huge. It was designed around high level gear. Yes once you are in HK+ gear it's easy. When you aren't it's death if you get 1 add for most toons builds.

Gear doesn't need a huge reset. But it should start to reset in that 54ish range. If not then why even have leveling in SL? Just burn through everything in your ID gear and you are ready to raid as max level. Again bad game design.

Yes BC in WoW hard reset was the way to do it wrong where the first green you got was better than almost any reward you get 60 or less. Wrath was a bit better. Cata actually wasn't bad on gear reset. It started a bit later in leveling and it should have.

You have to reset gear in a Xpac. Or it makes level if you are in game end gear boring when you never get anything. Or if balanced around game end gear impossible for anyone else to play if they aren't geared to the teeth.

Look at WoW now. If you hit Pandaland and you never did anything but level to cap in Cata you'll have ZERO chance to level a toon. You'll not have the 100KHP and insane stats Blizzard thought was so great in Cata. You'll not to the 30K DPS to kill even a solo mob before it kills you. Bad game design. But then again WoW has sucked a long time after GC took over. His vision in game design fun is about as bad as it gets.

[Chrissibow]

You sound like someone who hasn't been through it before, or perhaps don't run with the end game crowd.

The levels will be done and over with in a day. Two for the slackers. And then its expert dungeon grinding to gear up for the first raid where all of your previous gear is essentially junk. That will be the experience for any guild who is going to be racing for world firsts in the expansion.

Hold on a moment... I dare say I've done this before... Pretty sure that was exactly what was happening back in March of '11 with the expert dungeons and GSB!

You're the one living in denial. Expansions with a level increase and a effective gear reset are MMO companies way of saying "we're out of ideas, lets just force reset people so they'll play longer."

Its essentially setting people back 10 levels and having them do the end game grind all over again, with new gear, new faction rep to grind and maybe even a new tier of sourcestone to farm (I sincerely hope not, but I can just see it happening.)

Calling it a level cap increase is just smoke and mirrors. Feel free to buy into it if you'd like. And I'd be more than happy to apologize if it turns out NOT to be what I know it will be.

You are my friend living in denial.

You want to level in a day to 60 and start raiding with level 50 gear on day 2 in 60 content.

That would be the worse game design even for Blizzard and that would be hard to beat.

You are crying over leveling and replacing you gear from 1 to 50? My level 1 gear should get me into 50 raiding right?

You aren't crying over replacing invasion gear with normal 5 man gear?

You aren't crying over GSB anf RoS gear being replaced by HK gear.

And now you are crying over ID gear being replaced when you start to level again. Wow. It should be. You are out leveling your gear. Level 50 gear shouldn't be used in a level 60 raid.

It's part of leveling. You get things along the way that makes your toon better. Be it a new skill or talent. And yes a piece of gear. If not again why level? Just have Trion make a new world but all new raids are 50 and you just jump in skipping everything in the gear you have now for new raids?

Seems like a waste of time for Trion to even design a Xpac. Just keep doing raid and stay 50. Even better for you new raid means no new gear needed. You are in ID epics. You should need nothing else right? Not going to get gear. All your hard work isn't wasted. You just go right to level 60 raids in 50s gear.

Flame off:P

[Vioarr]

You are my friend living in denial.

You want to level in a day to 60 and start raiding with level 50 gear on day 2 in 60 content.

That would be the worse game design even for Blizzard and that would be hard to beat.

You are crying over leveling and replacing you gear from 1 to 50? My level 1 gear should get me into 50 raiding right?

You aren't crying over replacing invasion gear with normal 5 man gear?

You aren't crying over GSB anf RoS gear being replaced by HK gear.

And now you are crying over ID gear being replaced when you start to level again. Wow. It should be. You are out leveling your gear. Level 50 gear shouldn't be used in a level 60 raid.

It's part of leveling. You get things along the way that makes your toon better. Be it a new skill or talent. And yes a piece of gear. If not again why level? Just have Trion make a new world but all new raids are 50 and you just jump in skipping everything in the gear you have now for new raids?

Seems like a waste of time for Trion to even design a Xpac. Just keep doing raid and stay 50. Even better for you new raid means no new gear needed. You are in ID epics. You should need nothing else right? Not going to get gear. All your hard work isn't wasted. You just go right to level 60 raids in 50s gear.

Flame off:P

I think you are confused.

[Leif]

Level 50 gear shouldn't be used in a level 60 raid.

Why? Because other games do it that way?

Last I checked, some of those other games (Warcraft) were ****.

[Hrimnir]

I am 98% sure that the gear we get during our quest towards level 60 cap will be equivalent or better than ID relic gear. This is how most expansions have worked in MMOs similar to this, however this is my first MMO so I'm not 100% sure. What's your thoughts on this? Is there even any point of doing ID? Maybe for Cosmetics?!

This is how expansions worked in WOW.

I'm HOPING that Trion won't pull the same idiot move and nullify the work of raiders to appease the casuals.

IMO this is the way it should work:

If you're in full ID level gear, you should be able to level to 60 without replacing an item from any solo quest and the blue gear drops in 5 man dungeons should be roughly equivalent, with the purple drops being better.

If you're in full HK Level gear, you should be able to get to level 60 without replacing any item from any solo quest, and the blue gear drops in 5 man dungeons should be slightly better than your HK gear.

If you're in full GSB Level gear, you should basically be replacing your gear in the late 50's and 60's with blue con solo quest gear and late 50's blue dungeon drops.

IMO the only time you should be repping gear with green con quest rewards is if you were in 5 man dungeon level gear.

Not only is it insulting to the people who put in time to raid. It also cause HUGE mudflation problems because you constantly have to have this massive increase in power. This causes other issues because previous content becomes even more useless and absurd when you have people running around soloing dragons and stupid things like that.

EQ1 did it right. Even by the time the second expansion was out, it was still worthwhile to raid the original games content because that gear was still good.

Whereas an item from a raid zone in original EQ might have say 100AC 20str, 10sta and 45hp. The one from the expansion might be 130AC, 35str, 15sta and 75hp. Clearly an upgrade, but not WOW mode ridiculousness.

If they pull a blizzard on this one, in 1 or 2 years we'll have 500dps swords with 340str, 255dex, 900 atk power, 650 crit, blah blah blah"

[Hrimnir]

If you are leveling and every drop and quest reward is trash all the way to level cap in SL that would be the worse design ever.

What fun would is be knowning you'll never get 1 thing in 10 levels?

Its called, "i like to feel like the time i put into the game before the expansion actually meant something"

If Trion designs level content around full ID gear what chance does someone have to level a toon not in ID gear? None.

EI is a prefect example of that. You level to 50 you hit EI and it rips you up. The jump is huge. It was designed around high level gear. Yes once you are in HK+ gear it's easy. When you aren't it's death if you get 1 add for most toons builds.

Nobody is asking Trion to design the content around max geared people. They can design it around the people in 5 man dungeon gear and the people in raid gear will have an easier time of getting through it. I don't see why this is a problem outside of just sheer jealousy of people who can't or won't raid.

Gear doesn't need a huge reset. But it should start to reset in that 54ish range. If not then why even have leveling in SL? Just burn through everything in your ID gear and you are ready to raid as max level. Again bad game design.

How is this bad game design? RPG's have had this since time started. If you wanted to you could hang out in the lower level area and gear up or level up your character so you had an easier time in the new, harder area. RPG's have always been about time/effort invested = reward (as far as character progression is concerned)

You have to reset gear in a Xpac. Or it makes level if you are in game end gear boring when you never get anything. Or if balanced around game end gear impossible for anyone else to play if they aren't geared to the teeth.

Its not boring because the part that makes it fun isnt the gear. Not when leveling. People who like gear like to get it from getting together with their buddies and running dungeons or raiding. Getting some "phat lewtz" from your faceroll ezmode quest just feels like a participation trophy, it means nothing to many of us. As a matter of fact, its more fun to be able to stomp the guts out of the mobs BECAUSE you worked your butt off and got some nice raid gear. It gives you a sense of accomplishment to be able to see that your character is in fact, more powerful, hence, character progression.