You really have a hard on for those purchased XP pots don't you...Originally Posted by Ceonnyn
In other news: Anuhart has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.
I'm bored of arguing with someone who has a single figure IQ.
Last edited by mo0trix; 03-23-2012 at 04:37 PM.
^This guy writes cleric guides and claims chloro is OP. LOL!
Don't like arguing with yourself, do you?You really have a hard on for those purchased XP pots don't you...
In other news: Anuhart has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.
I'm bored of arguing with someone who has a single figure IQ.
You can easily be proven wrong, however, it is all dependent on the type of gear the individual is already wearing and where their resists are. Do you know what the tilde in front of a number means? It means "about" or "approximately" in mathematical terms, which is all we can say unless we start bringing in specific gear sets and start getting to the nitty gritty. Your numbers are just as "made up" as mine are because again you don't talk of exact gear setups. Also I think you have a serious problem with how you think resists work in this game.. here is a breakdown (looking specifically at water resist) to put you in your place:
Here is your theoretical potential maximum WR (if you are a dwarf add another +20).
~120 (Sigil)
+20 (WR Trinket)
+40 (WR Pot)
+40 (Archon buff)
+30 (Planar Protection)
+54 (Enchants)
---------------
Total: 304 = 34% water dmg reduction (The formula is: Damage % reduction = Resistance / ( Resistance + 600 ) * 100%)
Now let's say you really don't want to use the trinket and the enchants.. that lowers your WR to 230 and gives you 28% water dmg reduction. So the difference between 28% and 34% is really not that much at all.. right? I mean it's only a difference of 6%.. there is no possible way 6% would be worth replacing a trinket that drops your DPS by 200 and the enchants that lower your crit by 2% and attack power a few points, right?
WRONG.
This is where most people are thinking about resistance wrong. Take a look at the ACTUAL difference in resistance. Let's use 10000 damage (though you can use any number) as a test amount of damage that would hit you if you had 0 WR.
10000*0.34 = 3400 dmg reduced from 34%
10000*0.28 = 2800 dmg reduced from 28%
The % difference between these two is (1-2800/3400) = which is nearly 18%!!!!!
So from going from 28% to 34% dmg mitigation you gain nearly 18% more water dmg reduction.
WTF?
So now lets cook up a scenario of someone who isn't using enchants and has a substandard sigil (~85 WR)
~85 (Sigil)
+40 (WR Pot)
+40 (Archon buff)
+30 (Planar Protection)
---------------
195 WR = 24%
24% sounds respectable right? I mean it's not THAT much different from 28% and really not THAT far from 34%. Almost 200 WR sounds like A LOT right?!
WRONG AGAIN!
You are taking 15% more damage than the person with 230 WR and 30% more damage than the person with 304 WR.
Another non raider with derpage to say.
mavfin87 has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.
^This guy writes cleric guides and claims chloro is OP. LOL!
No one needs 2-3 pieces of gear to raid either. Your argument is feckless and completely fallacious..
Just because I know you're going to go here anyways I'll save you some time. Dictionary.com
I don't like insulting people, but now that it appears I'm on ignore I can freely say, what a prat that guy is.
Wrote wrong, sry.
I've been raiding HK PA set to full PvP and had no probs. For some odd alcoholic reason I was unable to write what I meant :P
I just wish you could see how bad the "PA is not a requirement" argument is. Nothing in this game is a requirement. Like I was saying earlier go ahead and have an entire raid remove their shoulder armor and they would easily be able to complete all the content in the game (had they already been doing it). No doubt guilds could do ID content without their shoulders equipped. The argument is not whether or not PA is needed. I don't think anyone has ever argued this in the thread. The argument is that PA can make a significant difference in PvE when you add up the benefits across the entire raid. Now people can sit here and argue back and forth about how significant it is or not, but if you add all the benefits up (+90 to 3 stats, AP/SP bonuses, resistances) you will see that they amount to roughly 2-3 pieces of gear. Would you raid without 2-3 pieces of your gear? Would your guild allow you to raid showing up without 2-3 pieces of your gear?
The problem here is that the vast majority of raiders DO see PA as something that they need to get in order to be fully competitive in a raiding environment. Whether or not you personally do or whether or not Trion will make content around PA is completely inconsequential. The mere fact that they are in the game means that raiders will want them. Raiders want more stats so they can get content down and get gear with more stats.. I am pretty sure we can all agree on this. You are arguing that these stats don't make a difference, to you maybe they don't. To the average raider they do. Even if the bonuses are apparently minimal (~10-20% boosts) even a perceived advantage will cause people to feel that they are a necessity to farm.
There would be 0 problem if the PA trees didn't have stats. However, now those of us who want to remain competitive are being turned into grinders in the pursuit of getting stats that prior to the release of the PA system were nearly completely contained within instances.
Last edited by Skrumpy; 03-23-2012 at 05:01 PM.
So do you consider those who want tier 3 PA? Any solution everyone could agree with?
Raiders do see PA as something they need to get. Ok, time to realise that the way they are looking at it is wrong.I just wish you could see how bad the "PA is not a requirement" argument is. Nothing in this game is a requirement. Like I was saying earlier go ahead and have an entire raid remove their shoulder armor and they would easily be able to complete all the content in the game (had they already been doing it). No doubt guilds could do ID content without their shoulders equipped. The argument is not whether or not PA is needed. I don't think anyone has ever argued this in the thread. The argument is that PA can make a significant different in PvE when you add up the benefits across the entire raid. Now people can sit here and argue back and forth about how significant it is or not, but if you add all the benefits up (+90 to 3 stats, AP/SP bonuses, resistances) you will see that they amount to roughly 2-3 pieces of gear. Would you raid without 2-3 pieces of your gear? Would your guild allow you to raid showing up without 2-3 pieces of your gear?
The problem here is that the vast majority of raiders DO see PA as something that they need to get in order to be fully competitive in a raiding environment. Whether or not you personally do or whether or not Trion will make content around PA is completely inconsequential. The mere fact that they are in the game means that raiders will want them. Raiders want more stats so they can get content down and get gear with more stats.. I am pretty sure we can all agree on this. You are arguing that these stats don't make a difference, to you maybe they don't. To the average raider they do. Even if the bonuses are apparently minimal (~10-20% boosts) even a perceived advantage will cause people to feel that they are a necessity to farm.
There would be 0 problem if the PA trees didn't have stats. However, now those of us who want to remain competitive are being turned into grinders in the pursuit of getting stats that prior to the release of the PA system were nearly completely contained within instances.
As for the no stat point, those stats are my only progression, remove them and you remove any progression for me.
I hit 50 two weeks ago. I've gotten 11 levels since then. I'm way behind the curve. At the rate I'm gaining PAs it would take years for me to catch up. It looks like as long as I play this game I'll always be playing a character who is weaker than others. I understand some people say that all those stats from PAs don't make any difference but they look huge to me.
I think the PA system is useful for keeping veterans playing the game. It gives them something to do and I know they like making their characters more powerful, but it really looks discouraging to a noob like me.
Ah so your way of seeing things is the only right way? I'm sorry but you must realize it is exceedingly difficult to fight nature. Trion introduced PA which gives you stats. Raiders need (a certain amount of) stats in order to get progression done. I think we can both agree on this. Now because there is no predefined number of stats to reach, raiders feel that they must get as many as possible. For example, if Trion said "Clerics only need 600 wisdom in order to do ID", then as soon as a cleric achieved that point they could know that they have reached that bare minimum and the choice to continue on, if they wanted, would be theirs. However, there are no said numbers. Thus raiders will not be happy until they have all possible stat giving items outside of a raid. You telling people to retrain how to think about things in this context is completely futile. It matters not that Trion has said they won't balance content around PA (I still haven't seen this post), because a raider will never be satisfied with not having the maximum number of stats possible to perform their role in a raid.
To understand this better you need to think about what motivates a raider. Arguably there are multiple various factors that play into raider motivation but I think we can all agree that getting gear and downing the content are two of the major ones. Gear increases stats which directly allows raiders to increase their maximal raid potential. Increases in maximal raid potential are seen as favorable as they can increase the likelihood that a boss will be defeated. PAs are a substitute for gear in that they give you stats outside of a raiding environment. Because of this fact, PAs that give stats are highly sought after by raiders and will continue to be so given that the additive total of PA add up to be a significant amount. This is especially true when you consider 20 people all having an additional +270 to their 3 primary stats (including T3) as this amounts to ~5400 in "extra" stats that would normally not be there. This is the combined equivalent of having an extra couple of people at the raid. Hence, this is also why guild leaders are also going to start encouraging their raiders to get more PA (if they haven't already).
errr, give them it?.. it's going to happen anyway.
^This guy writes cleric guides and claims chloro is OP. LOL!
My solution would be to remove T3 PA that give stats. Problem solved. This way your crazy folk that are at the cap, or on the way to it, will have access to the other PA and can start "banking" it if you wish.
If they want to add stats into T3 PA at a later date they can do so after the majority of guilds have started progressing through or have already completed ID.
I have no problem with T3 giving people "free" consumables (though I think this destroys the market), or other special abilities that don't affect combat (both PvE and PvP).
Last edited by Skrumpy; 03-23-2012 at 05:30 PM.
Good raiders have been clearing all raidable content for a while now and did not need any PA's todo so. Sorry you suck at raiding and need to have some sort of stat crutch to get you through the night baddie. Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah this whole thread is a joke mostly because of the people wanting everything for nothing.
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