A raider's case against PAs

[Anuhart]

Anuhart stop posting please. You are making yourself look really ignorant/bad.

More like not agreeing with people who can't handle not having everything ASAP without effort.

Sure, the best way to seem like you have valid points is to silence anyone who sees right through it.

[Torvaldr]

Problem 1)
PA should give fluff stats only, like mount speed, swim speed, extra damage on Rift creatures, the teleports/summons/some weapon enchants as it already does..BUT ONLY FLUFF STUFF.
Instead it gives those and very important stats which is the main problem.

Problem 2)
Its based around grinding, which isnt bad, but the main problem is, it makes an already unfriendly alt game, even more unfriendly.
Wasting time on an alt, means hindering progression of your main character and in the end of your guild, simple is that.

Problem 3)
The XP gains arent done properly, its better playing solo, that being grouped for maximum experience..The changes to IA helped, but still certain classes grind faster solo, than IA, EI IA might change that, but shall see.

Overall the main problem with PA:
Gives way too important stats and makes alts INSANELY unfriendly.
XP gain should be ACCOUNT WISE, and the stats should be usable once, same with the gains.
Have 7 Gains of Marks per character, but only 7 gains (Plus the refresh per day obviously) of XP per account, same with any high XP quest.
As example, PvP daily, Favor/XP/Prestige:
Done on Main? :Favor/XP/Prestige
Done on alt:Favor/Prestige
Few weeks after when main doesnt need favor and prestige anymore?
Do on alt:Favor/XP/Prestige, allocate the PA stats where you want, on alt or main.

Same with PvE, my main does not need anything in the game apart from the Rogue neck from Akylios, (MM spec wise, when we might get more one hand drops i might need the sword also ;D) therefor any Plaque's or Marks, are useless.

When i leveled my alt and started playing him, PA was introduced, i simply abandoned the alt because any time wasted on the alt = PA gain on main because i dont log much apart from raids.

Problem 1)
Raids should drop fluff items only like mount skins and different looking armour. Instead it drops the best weapons in the game and gives a fast track to the most powerful armour.

Problem 2)
Raids are based around grinding which isn't bad but makes for a very alt-unfriendly game. If the game is alt-unfriendly at all it is because of raiding. Wasting time raid gearing an alt means hindering progress of you main character and in the end your guild.

Problem 3)
Gear gains aren't done properly. It is better raiding, in fact you can only get the best gear raiding, than it is soloing or even running dungeons. Solo players only have access to mid-grade gear and dungeon groupers have to grind dungeon after dungeon after dungeon for what is handed out to raiders after just a few raids. Soloers and dungeon groupers must spend many hours and login many hourse where the raiders only have to log in once or twice a week.

Solution - As you level up your main, all your alts should level too. When your main gets a piece of gear your alt should get it too, and so on. Hell, we should just start the game at level 50, max PA, and max geared and run the content soley for "fun" with no drops or character progression at all. The folks over at ANet think this makes a fun game, but those of us who actually like playing MMOs and getting better loot, think progression gaming is fun.

I hope you can see how ridiculous the request is framed from a different perspective.

Progression gaming is about spending time to improve your character: your character gear, your character attributes (PA in this game), your builds, and your playstyle. I am literally appalled that a portion of the raiding community wants progression handouts, or worse feels entitled to them because of raiding. The very last thing this genre needs is removal of the very core tenets that make it what it is.

[Anuhart]

The thing is, Torvaldr, the majority of people in game are fine with PA, non raiders and raiders alike.

It's just this small vocal minority who would willingly just jump into BiS gear with full PA on every character at the drop of a hat, the fact that it takes any time and effort scares the life out of them. I think the name they give themselves is 'bads'.

[Trehearn]

let me put it this way.

my guild is 11/11 for hk, akylios is on farm, and hk is completed in about 5-6 total hours for our primary raid group, thats 5 hours a week, and they clear the content. as i said previously my guild has no pa requirements.

now something which i cannot even fathom, is the malcontents insistence that "pa trivializes content" which is a blatant, and ******ed assumption, because for the sole fact, BY LOGIC progression trivializes content, progression is achieved by time commitment, the player who commited 15 hours a week raiding, is gonna progress further then the player who commits 5 hours a week grinding pa, and the sole fact that no raid is balanced pa makes it so pa is not required, end of discussion, pa is not required for raiding, hence no raider has any case against pa.( also, that player with 1034 pa levels and t1 gear will not be able to complete with that full reliced geared hk farmer hardcore raider with 0 pa)

now all the above said, what is more efficient, spending 10 hours a week, raiding, and getting item upgrades which alter your stats by easily 5% per item, vs spending 350 hours in total, and altering you stats by a whopping 20%.


seriously, every single malcontent in this thread, please, explain your logic, and once you do, go back and read your passage over again, and again, hopefully, your brain cells will not overheat too much, and we don't have to find you in a vegatative state in front of your computer.

[Thorrand]

The thing is, Torvaldr, the majority of people in game are fine with PA, non raiders and raiders alike.

It's just this small vocal minority who would willingly just jump into BiS gear with full PA on every character at the drop of a hat, the fact that it takes any time and effort scares the life out of them. I think the name they give themselves is 'bads'.

You can't compare making PA account bound and wanting everything handed to you on a platter.
Are you seriously saying you know what the majority wants?
A lot of people I have talked to in my guild wish it was account wide, I just want to use the
Tool I was given to improve my character and also play a different calling when I get bored of my cleric.

[Trehearn]

You can't compare making PA account bound and wanting everything handed to you on a platter.
Are you seriously saying you know what the majority wants?
A lot of people I have talked to in my guild wish it was account wide, I just want to use the
Tool I was given to improve my character and also play a different calling when I get bored of my cleric.

but, leveling individual characters, and then being forced to progress through...progressive content, only to get those character to arrive at the same point in progression, is just so...tiem consuming...i already got to hk on one character, why should i have to be forced to go though gsb/planar farming/ pvp farming all over again just to get my non main to the same point as my main???


gosh darnit, i mean, seriously, having to lvl my warrior up to lvl 50, then getting him geared for hk, and then spending time on that characte rinstead of my mage is just so darn hard, i mea leveling and gearing simply is mean, and discourages making alt, trion, please take away leveling, and gear requirments for raid cause, gosh darn, i wanna bring my warrior when i'm bored of my mage, and he is only lvl 26...


i'm sure you see where i'm going with this broskie.

[Thorrand]

but, leveling individual characters, and then being forced to progress through...progressive content, only to get those character to arrive at the same point in progression, is just so...tiem consuming...i already got to hk on one character, why should i have to be forced to go though gsb/planar farming/ pvp farming all over again just to get my non main to the same point as my main???


gosh darnit, i mean, seriously, having to lvl my warrior up to lvl 50, then getting him geared for hk, and then spending time on that characte rinstead of my mage is just so darn hard, i mea leveling and gearing simply is mean, and discourages making alt, trion, please take away leveling, and gear requirments for raid cause, gosh darn, i wanna bring my warrior when i'm bored of my mage, and he is only lvl 26...


i'm sure you see where i'm going with this broskie.

In one fell swoop you won the hyperbole award and completely missed what was said :P nice try though bud "pats on head" it'll be okay. It will come to you soon (maybe)

[Anuhart]

You can't compare making PA account bound and wanting everything handed to you on a platter.

I can.

Are you seriously saying you know what the majority wants?

I'm seriously saying I only see the same few people who would rather it was given to them or removed.

A lot of people I have talked to in my guild wish it was account wide,

Ok, there are a lot of people in your guild who also want things handed to them, do you have any idea how small a percentage your guild is, do you have any idea how small a percentage all progression pushing guilds are?

I just want to use the
Tool I was given to improve my character and also play a different calling when I get bored of my cleric.

And you are the only one preventing it.

[Thorrand]

I can.


I'm seriously saying I only see the same few people who would rather it was given to them or removed.


Ok, there are a lot of people in your guild who also want things handed to them, do you have any idea how small a percentage your guild is, do you have any idea how small a percentage all progression pushing guilds are?


And you are the only one preventing it.

aw you screwed it up. The "I just want to use the" goes after account wide, otherwise it would just be silly

[Trehearn]

In one fell swoop you won the hyperbole award and completely missed what was said :P nice try though bud "pats on head" it'll be okay. It will come to you soon (maybe)

but leveling is a tool i was given, and i merely just want to use it for my other character outside of my main...no wait thats not right... but character progression is merely a tool i was given and i just want to use it on characte rother then my main...no wait thats not right either...


oh wait, individual character progression, something which has been around for over 20 years, is something entirely new with rift, and i no like it's, please change it to where i need only progress one character to absolution, to have all characters progressed...



seriously, y'all malcontent, complaining about pa just don't make any sense at all?


is pa bad because it somehow outscaled raid time commiter/raid rewards? (hint, it does not) is pa bad because pa is a new time consuming requirement to raid (hint, it is not), or is pa bad, because it requires time commitment to a specific character to advance (hint, leveling is the exact same ******* thing) are you pa complainer mads because you don't want to commit time to a whole game genre whos sole purpose is to take time? or are you mad because trion introduced something that for the most part, is unheard of, in the genre, (aka, progression outside of raid/pvp rank, at endgame)

[Thorrand]

seriously, y'all malcontent, complaining about pa just don't make any sense at all?

I'm not malcontent-ed at all. I enjoy giving my opinion as to what I believe would be a quality of life improvement. While I enjoy you trying to debate this, this is just my opinion and you won't change my mind. You are not the target for this suggestion :P

I'm not familiar with a y'all. is it a type of goat? If you're going for the grammatical trifecta then it should be "just don't make no sense"

[Trehearn]

I'm not malcontent-ed at all. I enjoy giving my opinion as to what I believe would be a quality of life improvement. While I enjoy you trying to debate this, this is just my opinion and you won't change my mind. You are not the target for this suggestion :P

I'm not familiar with a y'all. is it a type of goat? If you're going for the grammatical trifecta then it should be "just don't make no sense"

you know, y'all is actually in the dictionary... so i find it surprising that you would pick that specific word to go after, however, the grammatical errors are purposeful, merely a accented inflection onto English to "spice" up the chat, because righting in proper English truly is boring...

also, your arguments against pa still do not make any sense, regardless of any language inflection.

[Visinthien]

Not being able to obtain every carrot in the game is what any MMO is about. Do you also collect all artifacts? Level an alt of every class? Gear up for every build? Collect all mounts? Do all achievements?

Ok, so bleeding-edge guilds require X PAs for members -- guess what, they're bleeding-edge progression guilds. If that is the carrot you want to pursue, then you give up others (like time gearing up for PvP or time hunting artifacts or having 3 alts with tons of PAs).

[Thorrand]

It makes total sense if you read the first word of each sentence. I play my main because if I get on my alt then I am not earning PA for my main and therefore not improving my character thus not doing my best to be the best healer possible for my guild. That leads to me playing the same toon so long I will eventually get burned out and unsub. The PA would still be earned.

How about this alternative. Essentially disabling experience on whatever alt I want to play and make 50% of what is earned on said alt go to my main.

[Anuhart]

aw you screwed it up. The "I just want to use the" goes after account wide, otherwise it would just be silly

Wut ?