Will HK be pointless with next tier of raiding?

[Alex113]

My guild has a couple ppl who recently came back to the game who were last active on GsB 2nd boss progression raids. Lets just say our Alt+Pug raid was able to carry them up to Darktide.
1 week of T1s and you can get 4-5 newbies ready to get carried in HK.

[Safonz]

I think many of you missed the point that Mustifar was trying to make: These itemization changes have boosted T1 so much, that it isn't even necessary to do HK before ID.

A couple of guildies with Alt mages are T1 geared and they are sitting at about 100SP under our HK'd out mages with 7 piece T3 tier and relics like myself. Where is the incentive for them to slam their head against their keyboard by trying to pug HK for 500 greater marks, for 100sp...

I get the concept of why the itemization changes took place; make HK and higher end content more accessible so people can get geared up before the next content patch. The issue is the high end loot, be it greater mark tier pieces, or top end HK drops, didn't receive any or very little stat boosts.

Trion should have much more linear boost in item stats along all levels so there is still incentive for the T1'ers of Rift to push and progress through HK even after the new content is out. I guarantee most people will be skipping it due to the huge imbalance of Difficulty vs. Reward.

[opaque]

I think many of you missed the point that Mustifar was trying to make: These itemization changes have boosted T1 so much, that it isn't even necessary to do HK before ID.

A couple of guildies with Alt mages are T1 geared and they are sitting at about 100SP under our HK'd out mages with 7 piece T3 tier and relics like myself. Where is the incentive for them to slam their head against their keyboard by trying to pug HK for 500 greater marks, for 100sp...

I get the concept of why the itemization changes took place; make HK and higher end content more accessible so people can get geared up before the next content patch. The issue is the high end loot, be it greater mark tier pieces, or top end HK drops, didn't receive any or very little stat boosts.

Trion should have much more linear boost in item stats along all levels so there is still incentive for the T1'ers of Rift to push and progress through HK even after the new content is out. I guarantee most people will be skipping it due to the huge imbalance of Difficulty vs. Reward.

4 piece if absolutely huge for most specs. Way more then the ~100 dps of pure spellpower difference. Also it should be a bit higher then 100 sp.

[Vioarr]

It seems to me that with the difficulty of HK and the recent gear changes that there won't be enough incentive to do HK once the next tier of dungeons arrive. I say this because I'm pretty close to being geared out in HK (mage w/ all mark pieces 3 relic pieces and the rest HK purples) and my guild has been in HK for the last 7 months. We're currently 2nd on our server and we STILL have not downed all the content in HK 10/11. It seems to me that since a mage that is fresh out of GSB and ROS is pretty close in stats as I am that once the next tier is out, HK could be easily skipped. I mean why spend all that time in tier 2 when you can walk into tier 3 and not be that far behind. (I assume of course HK will be nerfed but still will probably be difficult). Not only that but I would have expected after this much time in HK that we would be running it for fun or to gear alts, at the very least getting the last few people in the raid the relics they need. At this rate not only do I think HK will be pointless but I don't think many people that have been working on it for months will even see the end content of it or feel rewarded for their efforts.

I wouldn't be concerned with people skipping T2 raid content and making any significant progress in ID until possibly well after release and the inevitable nerfs like what we saw for T1 and T2 after the first couple of months. Trion's dungeon devs are competent and they will balance the content with the recent gear changes in mind. The way hit contribution has been changed makes it difficult to reach the likely ~420 required for T3 without HK gear. HK will be pointless for people that have farmed it out but take the situation of two-handed melee weapons in HK where you had to clear Grugonim or Estrode to obtain an upgrade to the T1 relics, both being wing bosses. If you are assuming the first couple of bosses will drop everything you need to gear up then you are likely to find that approach flawed. Also, gearing up on T3 alone would take significantly more time for a T1 guild, not even considering the improbability of that being possible, than it would for a T1 guild to gear up in T2. It's a baseless concern really unless your guild is run by morons, in which case you need to find a new guild because that's not how any guild a raider would be associated with should operate, casual or hardcore.

Raiders raid to raid, they don't skip content that would make progression faster and easier to instead smash their face on content they aren't ready for and will eventually result in negative member growth that will quickly death spiral. No matter what anyone says, unless ID difficulty is way off which it will not be, then skipping HK is a death sentence.

[Vioarr]

That's not to mention HK the set bonus which is a huge upgrade, as others have mentioned.

[Adastra]

I think many of you missed the point that Mustifar was trying to make: These itemization changes have boosted T1 so much, that it isn't even necessary to do HK before ID.

A couple of guildies with Alt mages are T1 geared and they are sitting at about 100SP under our HK'd out mages with 7 piece T3 tier and relics like myself. Where is the incentive for them to slam their head against their keyboard by trying to pug HK for 500 greater marks, for 100sp...

I get the concept of why the itemization changes took place; make HK and higher end content more accessible so people can get geared up before the next content patch. The issue is the high end loot, be it greater mark tier pieces, or top end HK drops, didn't receive any or very little stat boosts.

Trion should have much more linear boost in item stats along all levels so there is still incentive for the T1'ers of Rift to push and progress through HK even after the new content is out. I guarantee most people will be skipping it due to the huge imbalance of Difficulty vs. Reward.

Unless they release other sources of gear with 50 hit/focus rating on it, you're going to need some HK/RotP gear to even hit anything in ID.

[Safonz]

Agreed, 4 piece is significant.

But seriously; Final Boss from DH Chest "Ragtide Robes"
37 int
25 wis
27 SP
13 ENd
15 Crit
Total stat SP - 58

Nyx Chest Piece from HK 100 greater marks
51 int
26 wis
18 SP
26 crit
18 end
Total Stat SP - 54

Is anybody else a little upset about this? Or agree that things are messed up.

[Nnnxia]

I'm just interested in what changes will be made to the Synergy Crystal system with the new set of gear.

Will there be new crystals with larger number of bonuses? eg. current is 3, next is 5...

[Vioarr]

Agreed, 4 piece is significant.

But seriously; Final Boss from DH Chest "Ragtide Robes"
37 int
25 wis
27 SP
13 ENd
15 Crit
Total stat SP - 58

Nyx Chest Piece from HK 100 greater marks
51 int
26 wis
18 SP
26 crit
18 end
Total Stat SP - 54

Is anybody else a little upset about this? Or agree that things are messed up.

Be sure to let me know how having significantly less endurance overall works for you in ID. SP is not the end all be all of stats in raiding.

[Safonz]

I'm just saying... Farming 100 HK marks for 5 end and -5 SP, something is off, and nobody seems to be addressing it.

[Vioarr]

You also gain crit and when you factor those gains over every slot and multiply it by 20 then you have a significant gain. This is how raiding has always worked in good games yet for some reason you are attacking it.

[Vioarr]

100 greater marks is hardly a lot if you're 10/11, clearing RotP, doing Master Modes, and Expert dailies.

[Safonz]

Everyone in full tier HK gear is at least at the crit softcap, rendering it the most useless stat, i wouldn't put too much weight on that benefit.

[Vioarr]

I didn't so don't ignore the meat of my argument by propping that up.

[Safonz]

100 greater marks is hardly a lot if you're 10/11, clearing RotP, doing Master Modes, and Expert dailies.

Sigh. Again, my point of all of this is that there isn't enough insintive for the people who aren't even 2/11 to do HK at all... It takes them 6 weeks to get 100 marks just like it did everyone their first month in HK